CNET claims June for new MBA release?

[Twe Foju]

Sorry if i may have missed some info here

but does Apple say that they would not put an integrated GPU for the remaining of their Sandy Bridge line?

which means, as long as they use SB processor, it will be using the HD3000?

because if you guys hate the graphics downgrade, i am sure this is just a marketing strategy, and you can hope to see the next gen after this one to include integrated GPU, hopefully

i am also having a dilemma here on whether to pull my trigger on the current ultimate 13 or the SB, even if i dont play games on laptop anymore ( well the only game i still play on my MBP is EvE ), but i am a greedy bastard after all

==== edit ====

sorry just done some research, looks like you cant put any dedicated into SB after all.. what a shame

 

[fyrefly]

We now have some actual game results now and it seems even worse than the 50% drop seen in the original review.

Instead of 50% of the performance of the 320M, we now have:
26% at a lower resolution in Wow
34% for Lost planet

Those numbers seem to suggest the ULV SAndy Bridge has even worse graphics performance than the previous generation Nvidia 9400M

Gaming performance. Not graphics performance. Don't confuse the two.

Engadget's review said the Intel IGP made short work of 1080p HD clips, so regarding pushing pixels (that aren't games) the HD 3000 seems on par at doing that as the 320m.

Also, I'd venture to day the HD 3000 graphics drivers are more advanced in OSX than they are in Windows.

The same mysterious drop in Gaming performance was seen in Windows vs. OSX in the Anandtech review of the 13" 2011 MBP:

"Under OS X, the new HD Graphics 3000 GPU is actually about the same performance or even faster than the 2010 13-inch's GeForce 320M. Remember that Apple does a lot of its own driver writing under OS X and the SNB GPU received some TLC from Apple in the form of very well optimized drivers."

And yes, I know the MBP uses a fully clocked IGP and the MBA probably won't.

But if even a fully clocked IGP sucks in Windows and works almost on par with the 320m in OSX, then I'd like to at least see the LV HD3000 benchmarks in OSX before making a final judgement.

it is only 29min. Not sure where you get almost 1 hour from. And it was measured in Windows, so I think this is the most comparable number. Mac OS is known to be better at using less power than Windows. From this, I'd say there would be a marginal increase in battery life by switching to Sandy Bridge - nothing major.

Hah. My bad. I was adding like adding, and not like time adding.

I'd take even a marginal increase in battery life, though, who wouldn't?

And I'd also venture to say that Apple's doing better at battery life than most other manufacturers. The 13" 2011 MBP added 10W to it's TDP and (like you say below) Sandy Bridge seems like it's sneaky with it's turbo boosting - and still the 2011 MBP gets better battery life than it's C2D+320m sibling from last year.

TDP is not the whole story .. for example the 2011 i7 2.3Ghz Sandy Bridge Quad Core is supposed to have a TDP of 45W, which is 10W more than the i7
2.66Ghz 2010 model. However, Anandtech measured the 2011 machine using almost 40W more running a CPU intensive task. Something is very weird about the Sandy Bridge TDP numbers.

Hmm, interesting, I hadn't seen that comparison yet.

The GPU must come into play in both those test, however... so 45W + 25W = 70W out of the 93W used are accounted for in TDP.

And the 13" MBP pulls 48W instead of it's 35W TDP. It's interesting.

I wish we had seen comparable numbers for the current MBA. Does it pull more than advertised under load? How much? If not, why not? Is turbo boost to blame?

My point was based purely on TDP and not high-end scenarios, the battery life should be longer. Wireless web surfing is how Apple measures it now - and I couldn't see the SL9400/9600+320m combo posting better battery numbers in a wireless web test than the i5/HD3000 combo? That leads me to say unless one was doing high-end Rendering with their MBA - the general web-surfing, itunes playing, facebook-checking Mac user will not see anymore than the ~20W TDP come into play, giving that user longer battery life, no?

 

[Psilocybin]

Hd3000 is integrated and there is no room on the board to put a discreet gpu nor does the MBA need the heat and also would require more power to be consumed

Your also missing the point of the MBA. It's not meant to be a power house

Sorry if i may have missed some info here

but does Apple say that they would not put an integrated GPU for the remaining of their Sandy Bridge line?

which means, as long as they use SB processor, it will be using the HD3000?

because if you guys hate the graphics downgrade, i am sure this is just a marketing strategy, and you can hope to see the next gen after this one to include integrated GPU, hopefully

i am also having a dilemma here on whether to pull my trigger on the current ultimate 13 or the SB, even if i dont play games on laptop anymore ( well the only game i still play on my MBP is EvE ), but i am a greedy bastard after all

==== edit ====

sorry just done some research, looks like you cant put any dedicated into SB after all.. what a shame

 

[htcbug]

For me, nothing can be compared to a BACKLIT keyboard. If new mba owns one, I'll buy a 13-inch one immediately and set it as my primary computer. If not, I'll turn to a 13-inch mbp...

 

[Psilocybin]

For me, nothing can be compared to a BACKLIT keyboard. If new mba owns one, I'll buy a 13-inch one immediately and set it as my primary computer. If not, I'll turn to a 13-inch mbp...

I'm baffled about how a few LEDs can determine your choice between two totally different notebooks

 

[57004]

[
And the 13" MBP pulls 48W instead of it's 35W TDP. It's interesting.

I wish we had seen comparable numbers for the current MBA. Does it pull more than advertised under load? How much? If not, why not? Is turbo boost to blame?

The 35W is only the TDP of the processor. It doesn't include the harddrive, screen, chipset, battery charger, etc. So that's perfectly normal.

Also, TDP is not a perfectly accurate figure for power draw. It's the maximum a computer designer should budget for, both in terms of power supply, cooling, etc. So it means that in any case the sustained power draw of the processor alone won't exceed this.

It is, however, perfectly possible that the CPU draws much less power, even in a high-load situation. That could possibly be true for the current C2D's in the MBA, because they are a bit older and therefore intel might have got the process developed a bit more efficiently. So it could well be that the C2D's are working at powers below their TDP budget, while the Sandy Bridge ones are reaching the top of their budget.

 

[htcbug]

I'm baffled about how a few LEDs can determine your choice between two totally different notebooks

that's easy, macbook without backlit keyboard is too ugly to me.

 

[Psilocybin]

that's easy, macbook without backlit keyboard is too ugly to me.

Lol ok buddy. Hope your not waiting for there to be a backlit keyboard in the air because I doubt there will be. Apple took it out of the MBA for a reason not for the heck of it

 

[charpi]

I believe that I have posted it on some other thread but I'll post it here just for fun.

Not sure if it is too feasible, just throwing possibilities.

MBA + Backlit(Or not, I don't really mind) + Thunderbolt + Sandy Bridge

And an external GPU connected by Thunderbolt if people needs it.

 

[htcbug]

Lol ok buddy. Hope your not waiting for there to be a backlit keyboard in the air because I doubt there will be. Apple took it out of the MBA for a reason not for the heck of it

lol, hope not so. Here are some other reasons: a 2 kg mbp 13 is a little bit too heavy for me as i need to travel around with a notebook to process my photos. 2 years ago i sold my t61 and replaced it with a x61 because t61 is too heavy and the cdrom is really useless to me. so when i got that the 2011 new mbp is equipped with a superdrive, i was really disappointed.

 

[fyrefly]

The 35W is only the TDP of the processor. It doesn't include the harddrive, screen, chipset, battery charger, etc. So that's perfectly normal.

Also, TDP is not a perfectly accurate figure for power draw. It's the maximum a computer designer should budget for, both in terms of power supply, cooling, etc. So it means that in any case the sustained power draw of the processor alone won't exceed this.

It is, however, perfectly possible that the CPU draws much less power, even in a high-load situation. That could possibly be true for the current C2D's in the MBA, because they are a bit older and therefore intel might have got the process developed a bit more efficiently. So it could well be that the C2D's are working at powers below their TDP budget, while the Sandy Bridge ones are reaching the top of their budget.

Ah, that clears things up a bit.

But as stated, I'd like to see the power draw for the C2D+320M. Certainly then, in taking out the other power-suckers in the machine, that C2D+320M combo would draw more power than the LV i5 processor alone, would it not?

 

[FX4568]

Ah, that clears things up a bit.

But as stated, I'd like to see the power draw for the C2D+320M. Certainly then, in taking out the other power-suckers in the machine, that C2D+320M combo would draw more power than the LV i5 processor alone, would it not?

Its a difference of 5-10W. Dont remember exactly. might be a little less since its not a full clocked C2D.

 

[robeddie]

Lol ok buddy. Hope your not waiting for there to be a backlit keyboard in the air because I doubt there will be. Apple took it out of the MBA for a reason not for the heck of it

If you're alluding to the theory that Apple took it out to 'differentiate' it from the macbook pro's, I still don't get that concept.

I mean, if you want to differentiate your higher end products from the lower end ones, you ADD features to the higher end one. You DON'T remove features that were once standard for years on the lower end machine.

***It's like if Ford all the sudden removed air conditioning on all but their high end cars - saying that's a 'luxary' feature for their high end vehicles. We'd ALL cry BULL.....!!! Same thing has happened with the MBA.

 

[Beaverman3001]

If you're alluding to the theory that Apple took it out to 'differentiate' it from the macbook pro's, I still don't get that concept.

I mean, if you want to differentiate your higher end products from the lower end ones, you ADD features to the higher end one. You DON'T remove features that were once standard for years on the lower end machine.

***It's like if Ford all the sudden removed air conditioning on all but their high end cars - saying that's a 'luxary' feature for their high end vehicles. We'd ALL cry BULL.....!!! Same thing has happened with the MBA.

Or Apple realized most people don't need a backlit keyboard? I honestly don't see a need for one, and I'm guessing most users don't need it. So it was probably a easy option to axe for either space or battery life. Don't expect it to return.

 

[robeddie]

Or Apple realized most people don't need a backlit keyboard? I honestly don't see a need for one, and I'm guessing most users don't need it. So it was probably a easy option to axe for either space or battery life. Don't expect it to return.

I don't know, it's been on all aluminum models since 2003. After all these years Apple decided no one really wanted it? (A lot of people on these forums obviously wouldn't agree with that).

To save battery life? You can turn it off if you want. Problem solved.

 

[57004]

Also, the first MBA didn't have it, and they introduced it in the B revision. So they have been able to squeeze it in before where they weren't initially.

It would be a nice selling point for the upgraded model (as opposed to the base model), same as they did with the PowerBook for a while.

 

[robeddie]

Also, the first MBA didn't have it, and they introduced it in the B revision. So they have been able to squeeze it in before where they weren't initially.

It would be a nice selling point for the upgraded model (as opposed to the base model), same as they did with the PowerBook for a while.

Not True. The first MBA DID have it.

This ... from ZDNet:

"The worst part about the backlight’s omission is that the original MacBook Air (circa 2008) had a keyboard backlight. Obviously, there’s no technical reason that it couldn’t be done, so why did Apple drop it from the 2010 MBA?

It can’t be a price issue. How much does a keyboard backlight LED cost in Apple quantities? A dollar? You can’t make the case for battery life either, because it’s easily turned off in System Preferences.

So why did Apple really drop the keyboard backlight in the new MBA? Planned obsolescence, my friend. How much do you want to bet that the 2011 model has a keyboard backlight?"

Link: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/the-macbook-airs-biggest-omission-keyboard-backlight/8945

 

[bcaslis]

I've been told the keyboard backlighting was a size issue. Doesn't anyone remember that they made it thinner and increased the battery size? It probably doesn't fit. I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape on this. I've had both backlight and non-backlight.

 

[Beaverman3001]

I don't know, it's been on all aluminum models since 2003. After all these years Apple decided no one really wanted it? (A lot of people on these forums obviously wouldn't agree with that).

To save battery life? You can turn it off if you want. Problem solved.

The other models most obviously have more room for it. The Macbook Air doesn't, and Apple probably decided it wasn't worth bothering with for this model. For the other models with a lot more space, no reason not to if the space is there. But once you run into space constraints it is pretty easy to peg as one of the first things to be cut out.

 

[Sounds Good]

According to CNET, the new Air will be released around June with a Sandy Bridge ULV Core i5 2537M chip 1.4 GHz that can turbo to 2.3 GHz. So for .17 GHz upgrade we are sacrificing around 30% graphic power?

Which would be better for video editing -- the current MBA or the upcoming Sandy Bridge MBA? (just family videos, nothing hardcore)

 

[TrollToddington]

I mean, if you want to differentiate your higher end products from the lower end ones, you ADD features to the higher end one. You DON'T remove features that were once standard for years on the lower end machine.

I've seen this in Yamaha keyboards - once upon a time all keyboards had MIDI IN/OUT/THROU, later (ca 2004 onwards) Yamaha removed this pretty basic feature from their low and mid-end keyboards so that they could not be used as controllers. The customers had to end up buying pretty expensive equipment in order to use MIDI connections.

 

[KPOM]

Which would be better for video editing -- the current MBA or the upcoming Sandy Bridge MBA? (just family videos, nothing hardcore)

Likely the Sandy Bridge. Editing uses CPU power.

Consider that the Sandy Bridge chip has several advantages over the Core 2 Duo:

• It is two generations ahead in microarchitecture (it processes more information per clock cycle)
• Although it is dual-core, it operates as if it has 4 cores (each core can process 2 instructions at a time)
• It can "turbo boost" (i.e. overclock itself) when running programs not written to take advantage of multiple cores.

 

[Sounds Good]

Likely the Sandy Bridge. Editing uses CPU power.

Thanks.

 

[retrorichie]

Personally I could care less about the graphics downgrade if the MBA gets sandy bridge. It is slightly disappointing at face value to downgrade anywhere with a new generation of machine, but I can live with not being able to do any gaming on this thing if it is excellent at everything else. i5 or i7 CPU combined with 512 GB of storage would be frickin' amazing. Throw in an anti-glare display and a backlit keyboard and I would just about roll over and die.

 

[gwsat]

I am not a gamer but still will not buy an MBA with an i series chip if it means I have to suffer Intel's woefully weak integrated graphics processor. I bought an early 13 inch Ultimate in October and plan to keep it for at least three years. It handles everything I throw at it easily so until and unless it won't do that anymore I don't plan to replace it.