Coin mining

[Foggydog]

It's not about being polite it's about being real. if you're going to invest you need to do your own research and not get caught in the hype. But if you want someone to spoon feed you and perhaps unknowingly feed you incorrect information than doing your own research then go ahead. This is exactly how amateurs lose money.

If you don't want to take the real advice and take heed with what I am saying then I can't help anymore.

As I said earlier...you could have easily searched how to buy cardano and you would have gotten your answer. P.S. you can't buy cardano on coinbase.

I had figured out that I couldn’t up cardano on Coinbase. But when looking through their set up video it looked to me that I needed an actual computer to set it up. There are still a lot of things that one cannot do on an iPad and I thought that perhaps @AlliFlowers could have answered a simple question.

 

[AidenShaw]

Kind of resembles my basement!

My basement doesn't have floor to ceiling windows.

On the other hand, neither do my server labs or colos.

 

[Blaze4G]

I had figured out that I couldn’t up cardano on Coinbase. But when looking through their set up video it looked to me that I needed an actual computer to set it up. There are still a lot of things that one cannot do on an iPad and I thought that perhaps @AlliFlowers could have answered a simple question.

Sign up for gdax (same login as coinbase) however gdax doesn't charge as much transaction fee. Buy ether or litecoin...bitcoin transaction fees are really high. Sign u prob Binance.com. transfer ether or litecoin to Binance...buy cardano.

 

[pl1984]

How about if you two cannot be poliite, then just keep your mouth shut,
Or be mature and answer my question like @aliflower did.
At least I’m asking questions.

I was being polite. The reality is if you're unwilling to do basic research on this subject then you have no business entering into it. This is something you should enter into with full knowledge. Personally I think bitcoin is a bunch of hype and most entering into it are bound to lose their shirts. However if you choose to embark on such a journey more power to you...just do it with full knowledge.

 

[Foggydog]

Sign up for gdax (same login as coinbase) however gdax doesn't charge as much transaction fee. Buy ether or litecoin...bitcoin transaction fees are really high. Sign u prob Binance.com. transfer ether or litecoin to Binance...buy cardano.

Thank you.

 

[curmudgeonette]

Is mining the same as just buying shares?
If so, why does one need to much power?

"Mining" is processing transactions. Miners aggregate transactions and then attempt to find the magic number that validates (and effectively locks) each block of transactions. Each miner is in a race with many (million?) other miners to be the first and only one that discovers the magic number and receives a reward. The amount of compute power thrown at this is incomprehensible - if it were trying to break encryption, it could probably break 20 year old encryption almost instantly.

 

[Foggydog]

"Mining" is processing transactions. Miners aggregate transactions and then attempt to find the magic number that validates (and effectively locks) each block of transactions. Each miner is in a race with many (million?) other miners to be the first and only one that discovers the magic number and receives a reward. The amount of compute power thrown at this is incomprehensible - if it were trying to break encryption, it could probably break 20 year old encryption almost instantly.

That’s pretty cool.

 

[cycaduk]

I feel a little sorry to have started this post now. I only wanted to know if I could use my early mac pros to mine bitcoins or other crypto currencies. It would appear the answer has to currently be no, which is a shame.

As far as the crypto currency craze goes, it does feel a bit like some of the pyramid selling schemes where the people who get in and out early make money and everyone else loses.
Once the last bitcoin has been issued who will pay for verifying all the transactions?

 

[Foggydog]

I feel a little sorry to have started this post now. I only wanted to know if I could use my early mac pros to mine bitcoins or other crypto currencies. It would appear the answer has to currently be no, which is a shame.

As far as the crypto currency craze goes, it does feel a bit like some of the pyramid selling schemes where the people who get in and out early make money and everyone else loses.
Once the last bitcoin has been issued who will pay for verifying all the transactions?

No reason to feel bad for starting this thread. I was going to start a similar thread to learn and explore but I saw yours.
I’m sorry if it seems like I hijacked it.
For me I first heard of bitcoin in summer of 2010. It sounded interesting, but of course I didn’t pursue it. Then again in 2013 I read more. Now it’s 2017 and once again I missed an apportunity.

 

[pl1984]

I feel a little sorry to have started this post now. I only wanted to know if I could use my early mac pros to mine bitcoins or other crypto currencies. It would appear the answer has to currently be no, which is a shame.

As far as the crypto currency craze goes, it does feel a bit like some of the pyramid selling schemes where the people who get in and out early make money and everyone else loses.
Once the last bitcoin has been issued who will pay for verifying all the transactions?

The answer to your question is you can use them to mine bitcoins however the more appropriate question is should you use them to mine bitcoins. The answer to that question is probably not given the compute power required today (in the beginning mining didn't take as much power, the algorithm was designed to get more difficult as bitcoins were mined).

As for a pyramid scheme I do not view bitcoin as such. Due to the speculators it appears to be a pyramid scheme but remove them from the market and bitcoin has a legitimate use. If the price were to remain stable it makes a decent alternative payment system (though I am not sold on it and would avoid using it even if the price were stable, but that's my personal feeling on it).

 

[Bart Kela]

Here is a recent article (November 2017) about bitcoin mining for 2018.

I've been casually reading about bitcoin mining for years and it never appeared to be a really worthwhile pursuit for the casual hobbyist. Several years ago, it became clear that it was becoming increasingly difficult for the hobbyist bitcoin miner to get a return on their costs, to the point where it really wasn't worth it.

If you were serious about it, you'd really need to pony up $10,000 or $20,000 for your initial gear and most of your profits would be reinvested in buying additional equipment.

This isn't an endeavor that work well when one is paying retail consumer electricity rates which is why most of the home hobbyists have given up on cryptocurrency mining.

Today this activity requires a lot of equipment which generates noise and heat, requires a lot of space. It's not something you can do anymore in your home office or workshop.

 

[curmudgeonette]

Once the last bitcoin has been issued who will pay for verifying all the transactions?

Transaction fees. The fee amount is sender chosen (nor miner imposed) in what is essentially an auction process.

 

[DigitalSherpa]

Hi all,
I have a collection of Mac pro's and wondered if I could use them to mine cryptocurrency?
The models I have are:
a 3.1 with an apple 5770 1GB video card
three 2.1s each with Sapphire Radeon 5770 1GB video cards
three 1.1s with stock 256MB video cards.
About 150GB total Ram split between the machines.

The 3.1 and 2.1s are running ElCapitan, the 1.1s are running snow leopard.

As I understand things the main hardware requirements to successfully mine cryptocurrency are cheap electricity, fast internet and a powerful graphics card or cryptocurrency mining card.
So I guess the questions are:
Do you think any of these machines could mine profitably?
If so, would I be better putting two 5770 cards in the 3.1 and one of the 2.1Mac pro's.
Is it possible to run the mac pro's with a KVM switch so I do not have to have multiple monitors?

Unfortunately most of what can be mined requires up-to-date hardware. And, even at that, current difficulty levels and the going exchange rate for most cryptocurrencies make it a tough bet. But, things have been slowly improving in the very recent few days.

After a bunch of research I built two mining rigs last April. I used a mining rig build guide (it's a Windows guide). Back at that point in time you could get Nvidia 1070 cards for around $400 give or take (mostly give). When cryptocurrency prices spiked 1070s were going for over $600. Then, after Christmas and a complete lack of inventory they were being sold in the mid 700's. 1070 cards can again be found in limited quantities in the $400-$525 range.

The best way to see how various hardware fares at mining is to check a site like What to Mine. You can put in what hardware you have (or are considering) as well as how much your electricity costs per kwh. In return the site will tell you how much you can mine in USD (net and profit).

One last caution is to keep an eye on the ASIC market. A very popular altcoin, Ethereum, was known to be "ASIC resistant." Well, resistant isn't the same as ASIC-proof, and a few weeks ago a company announced an ASIC miner for Ethash (the algorithm that Ethereum uses). It is significantly cheaper than building a GPU miner with the same specs. This isn't the first algorithm/cryptocurrency this has happened to recently.

If you do decide to mine there is a lot of good information on Reddit and people seem willing to help.

 

[Dr. Stealth]

How about if you two cannot be polite, then just keep your mouth shut, Thank you.

I heard that a thousand times from my parents while growing up. It's still true today. ( Sorry, I'm old very now, and a little Grumpy, maybe I need a little Nap )

 

[fastlanephil]

I’ve read that additional bitcoins could be created after the maximum number is hit if the bitcoin protocol is changed.

 

[Average Pro]

You can save yourself a lot of time of researching the topic by taking watching John Oliver's explanation.

Enjoy

 

[ActionableMango]

Every time I read about crypto mining I get a little bit sad. All that computing power, effort, electricity, and carbon footprint could be used to do something of real value, like helping to cure disease via folding@home.

But instead, all of that computing power, effort, electricity, and carbon footprint are generally used to lose money (except for those few who really know what they are doing, those who get in early when it is easy, and those who are stealing electricity).

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Every time I read about crypto mining I get a little bit sad. All that computing power, effort, electricity, and carbon footprint could be used to do something of real value, like helping to cure disease via folding@home.

But instead, all of that computing power, effort, electricity, and carbon footprint are generally used to lose money (except for those few who really know what they are doing, those who get in early when it is easy, and those who are stealing electricity).

Exactly. This creeptocurrency thing is not just a massive crime wave waiting for regulators to wake the **** up but also creates no wealth to the economy. The price listed on the exchanges are inflated by fake volume and price manipulation. It's an environmentally destructive zero sum game that takes wealth from late comers and passes it to the early comers who are almost always unhinged criminals who are using that wealth to corrupt politics and fund extremist groups and crime syndicates.

People shouldn't be surprised to see extremist politicians finding funding, separatist movements and so many sock puppets voicing extreme opinions all over social media. They all funded or bribed with these scam coins.

The big disappointment is seeing Apple and Google allow these creepto apps on their stores. It means child traffickers can take mobile payments from pedophiles using these apps. Politicians can take bribes from criminals. Oligarchs and dictators can pay their sock puppets from anywhere in the world.

 

[AlexMaximus]

Exactly. This creeptocurrency thing is not just a massive crime wave waiting for regulators to wake the **** up but also creates no wealth to the economy. The price listed on the exchanges are inflated by fake volume and price manipulation. It's an environmentally destructive zero sum game that takes wealth from late comers and passes it to the early comers who are almost always unhinged criminals who are using that wealth to corrupt politics and fund extremist groups and crime syndicates.

People shouldn't be surprised to see extremist politicians finding funding, separatist movements and so many sock puppets voicing extreme opinions all over social media. They all funded or bribed with these scam coins.

The big disappointment is seeing Apple and Google allow these creepto apps on their stores. It means child traffickers can take mobile payments from pedophiles using these apps. Politicians can take bribes from criminals. Oligarchs and dictators can pay their sock puppets from anywhere in the world.

A very difficult topic to discuss. I do understand your viewpoint. However, the established system is the problem. How can a central bank be private? Why do they not get audited, why there is no oversight? Where are the missing 29 Trillion? The FED and the ECB is, besides the Vatican the biggest and most effective organized crime system on the planet.

 

[Foggydog]

When I first replied this thread, I was thinking back to the summer of 2010. I was between jobs, but getting by on unemployment. I read an article somewhere about this bitcoin, and thought perhaps buying 100.00 or maybe 500.00 over a few months.
But I had no idea how to go about buying even a little bit. I didn’t even know whom I could ask for help.
Fast forward to December of 2017 when it hit it’s all time high and I was kicking myself one again for not trying to get into something on the ground floor. After all, at just 100.00 the worst that could happen was to lose that initial investment.
I just googled what 100.00 purchased in the summer of 2010 would be worth today. 75,000,000.00.
So let’s step back to when I started this thread I was just looking at a couple of the other crypto currencies and just thinking that at .01 per coin, would it be a good idea to purchase just a bit or not. It really pissed me off that the first reply was that I was probably just some stupid fool looking to try to cash in on something that I had no idea about.
How many people here in this thread wished that they bought a simple hundred bucks in 2010.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

A very difficult topic to discuss. I do understand your viewpoint. However, the established system is the problem. How can a central bank be private? Why do they not get audited, why there is no oversight? Where are the missing 29 Trillion? The FED and the ECB is, besides the Vatican the biggest and most effective organized crime system on the planet.

It's off topic to start making false equivalences but...

The Fed gets audited very often. It's not entirely private.

Creeptocurrencies do not change anything about 'established systems'. They are just a method for anonymous transactions, a pyramid scheme and a money laundering tool for criminals and authoritarian regimes. They are completely useless for anything else and terribly inefficient and insecure for legal use cases.

Nice little breakdown at Berkeley...

[doublepost=1524382687][/doublepost]

How many people here in this thread wished that they bought a simple hundred bucks in 2010.

First of all, when you "invest" in this you are giving your money to those who came before you - almost druglords and child traffickers. You are appreciating their investment because they are further up the pyramid. This is called the 'Greater Fool Theory' of investment. These are not company stocks. You aren't profiting from revenues (only the miners collect fees)

Secondly, any profit you make comes from taking the money from people who bought in after you. If you are comfortable with that zero-sum game and pyramid scheme then there is nothing we can debate about. Your ethics are entirely different to the majority of people.

Besides, if you think it is easy to cash out of this scheme you are mistaken. All those people claiming to be creepto millionaires and billionaires can only cash out tiny amounts. The liquidity is so low that if you try to cash out a a significant amount of money then two things will happen : the prices will crash or the exchanges will act as a bottleneck by not paying you. Go to r/coinbase and r/bitfinex (allegedly a criminal enterprise and the biggest exchange) or their Twitter accounts to read all the customers demanding to know where their money has gone.

 

[Foggydog]

It's off topic to start making false equivalences but...

The Fed gets audited very often. It's not entirely private.

Creeptocurrencies do not change anything about 'established systems'. They are just a method for anonymous transactions, a pyramid scheme and a money laundering tool for criminals and authoritarian regimes. They are completely useless for anything else and terribly inefficient and insecure for legal use cases.

Nice little breakdown at Berkeley...

[doublepost=1524382687][/doublepost]

First of all, when you "invest" in this you are giving your money to those who came before you - almost druglords and child traffickers. You are appreciating their investment because they are further up the pyramid. This is called the 'Greater Fool Theory' of investment. These are not company stocks. You aren't profiting from revenues (only the miners collect fees)

Secondly, any profit you make comes from taking the money from people who bought in after you. If you are comfortable with that zero-sum game and pyramid scheme then there is nothing we can debate about. Your ethics are entirely different to the majority of people.

Besides, if you think it is easy to cash out of this scheme you are mistaken. All those people claiming to be creepto millionaires and billionaires can only cash out tiny amounts. The liquidity is so low that if you try to cash out a a significant amount of money then two things will happen : the prices will crash or the exchanges will act as a bottleneck by not paying you. Go to r/coinbase and r/bitfinex (allegedly a criminal enterprise and the biggest exchange) or their Twitter accounts to read all the customers demanding to know where their money has gone.

Thank you. In just a few paragraphs you have educated me as well as enlightened me as well. I had no idea it was a pyramid scheme.

 

[960design]

Hi all,
I have a collection of Mac pro's and wondered if I could use them to mine cryptocurrency?

Nowadays it takes dedicated hardware to efficiently mine crypto. There are still a few coins out there that are ASIC resistance; Monero and Electroneum come to mind.

In my very amatuer opinion, you are better off just buying bitcoin when it is low and selling it when high. For example, I recently purchased $500US BTC when BTC was at $500. It took seven days to clear the bank and become available, during that time BTC was going up and I ended up with about $600US to purchase alt-coin with. Not too bad for a week.

Unless you get free electricity and live in a very cold / dry climate ( to keep the miners cool without having to spend more electricity on AC ) it is best to directly purchase and enjoy the ride.
[doublepost=1524437132][/doublepost]

Creeptocurrencies do not change anything about 'established systems'. They are just a method for anonymous transactions, a pyramid scheme and a money laundering tool for criminals and authoritarian regimes. They are completely useless for anything else and terribly inefficient and insecure for legal use cases.

I completely disagree.

Creeptocurrencies[sic] do not change anything about 'established systems'.

"Established systems" are based around a single entity owning the data: credit card companies, banks, ect. Blockchain is a distributed technology. Hacking a single entity's database is a headline waiting to happen: yahoo, bank of america... Hacking distributed tech is much more difficult, admittedly not impossible, just difficult. All the hacks you read about on cryptocurrencies were because the crypto company used blockchain tech for one side of the operation and standard database on the other. The other was what was hacked. Crypto companies are learning the folly of their actions, but change is hard.

They are just a method for anonymous transactions, a pyramid scheme and a money laundering tool for criminals and authoritarian regimes.

Some truth here, but mostly wrong. Blockchain tech does not allow anonymous transactions, I'm really not sure where that idea came from. Blockchain actually records every transaction since the beginning of time. Some algorithms hide the transactional data and make it impossible for the casual user to see it, but not so for a dedicated read. I wonder if this is 'fake news' to encourage 'bad guys' to use it, because the information is so readable.

They are completely useless for anything else and terribly inefficient and insecure for legal use cases.

Again, not useless. Blockchain may change the world, sure the coin part is a very small player in a hopefully much larger ( global ) trade future. The inefficiency has been solved by recent patents and definitely not insecure. It is all about security, that is the main point of blockchain.

Here is a little more information about blockchain:

[doublepost=1524437760][/doublepost]

Thank you. In just a few paragraphs you have educated me as well as enlightened me as well. I had no idea it was a pyramid scheme.

Unscrupulous people will take advantage of hype anyway they can. Most crypto is not a pyramid scheme, although there has been a famous one routed recently. That is why others are little bit abrasive and mention that you should do your own research.

Try to understand the big picture:
Credit card companies and banks make trillions on your money. Blockchain threatens that, a little at first, but now it is really starting to scare them. These established norms have huge amounts of money to throw at the policy makers of the world. Decisions are often not made for the good of the people, but the good of the money.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

ner ner ner

Try to understand the big picture:
Credit card companies and banks make trillions on your money. Blockchain threatens that, a little at first, but now it is really starting to scare them. These established norms have huge amounts of money to throw at the policy makers of the world. Decisions are often not made for the good of the people, but the good of the money.

If you think this is all for 'the good of the people' you're posting fantasist garbage based on juvenile myths that creepto fans spread because many of them don't know anything except what their echo chamber tells them.

Blockchain was invented in 91. Merkle Trees, which were created in the 70s, were added to the blockchain in 92.

The fake personality known as 'Satoshi Nakamoto' didn't invent blockchain or even claim to. It didn't create the hash functions it relies on either. The only thing he did was publicly solve a double spending problem.

The NSA wrote a paper in 1996 on anonymous peer to peer electronic cash. In that system users mint their money on their computers. The conclusion of the paper stated that system would result in money laundering for criminal networks and tax evasion.

https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm

What the NSA didn't foresee is the pyramid scheme features that we have seen in this space, that criminals are the main beneficiary of, and that if it was open sourced it could be copy-pasted into creating thousands of more nonsense cryptocurrency scams.

You're debating with the wrong type of person. Fool someone else.

 

[960design]

If you think this is all for 'the good of the people' you're posting fantasist garbage based on juvenile myths that creepto fans spread because many of them don't know anything except what their echo chamber tells them.

I'm sorry I did not read the rest of your post. Whenever anyone is THAT passionate about something I tend to walk away: street preachers, alien upductees, bronies, vegans, corndog fanatics, ect.

You may be right, only the future will tell.