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MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
Why? 1 can run metro apps the other all apps . Does apple have to explain the difference between an ipad and a macbook?

But a macbook's OS and an iPads OS look totally different when you see them.

A consumer going into a store and seeing two devices both displaying same metro interface, makes the two devices look the same. Why would they automatically assume there was a difference if superficially what they are looking at seems identical.
 

roadbloc

macrumors G3
Aug 24, 2009
8,784
215
UK
What differences are they really? Windows 8 has an explorer app and runs on intel chips, Windows RT lacks the explorer app and runs on ARM chips. I mean, if you don't understand that one will let you run PC + Tablet apps and the other will only let you run tablet apps, I don't think you should be using any electronic device. It isn't rocket science, in fact, when compared to the many editions of Vista there was, Windows 8 has proven to be even simpler than Windows 7 when it comes to telling the difference between editions.

Not much to get confused over there. Shame they've sold out, I really wanted an RT Surface, looks like I'm going to have to wait.
 

OSMac

macrumors 65816
Jun 14, 2010
1,455
7
Why? 1 can run metro apps the other all apps . Does apple have to explain the difference between an ipad and a macbook?

MS choose to call it 'Windows' RT. Windows to people implies it can run existing windows programs. They also choose to have it's user interface look exactly like the full windows 8 that runs existing programs.

Even major retailers like Futureshop and Bestbuy in Canada are confused,
and posting "Windows 8" on RT device listings.

Heres a listing for a full Windows 8 device
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/prod...spx?path=f61d5420226eea35721e048cbc699c7den02

Heres one for a limited RT device
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/prod...spx?path=5f728b694bcb043ce139e0bd3c3e862den02


Apple never in any way suggested OSX programs would run on the iPad.
The UI's are competely different looking, and have different names.
 

Krazy Bill

macrumors 68030
Dec 21, 2011
2,985
3
That is a great thing, it will keep people at Apple and move others who where on the fence to move to iPad. Then iPad could become really popular and Apple could finally do what people really want and drop Intel for good, by introducing ARM based machines running full OSX!
Holy crap. OSX on an ARM machine gets 2 up votes? :eek:

The irony is of course, the 3 of you are probably right. :( 20 hour battery life sounds good but I can think of better things to use that juice for other than browsing, tweeting and bird-killing.
 

k995

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2010
933
173
MS choose to call it 'Windows' RT. Windows to people implies it can run existing windows programs. They also choose to have it's user interface look exactly like the full windows 8 that runs existing programs.

Even major retailers like Futureshop and Bestbuy in Canada are confused,
and posting "Windows 8" on RT device listings.

Heres a listing for a full Windows 8 device
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/prod...spx?path=f61d5420226eea35721e048cbc699c7den02

Heres one for a limited RT device
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/prod...spx?path=5f728b694bcb043ce139e0bd3c3e862den02


Apple never in any way suggested OSX programs would run on the iPad.
The UI's are competely different looking, and have different names.

First of all there are already different windows versions, 32/64 bit for example also limits certain programs, is it an issue? No because almost all programs are comiled for the both.

So are the windows apps: 95% runs on both versions .

You seem to want windows to fail (can think of any reason actually why you ould want that) and seem to be making up "bad thins that might happen"

----------

But a macbook's OS and an iPads OS look totally different when you see them.
So?

Here on both you can run metro apps .

A consumer going into a store and seeing two devices both displaying same metro interface, makes the two devices look the same. Why would they automatically assume there was a difference if superficially what they are looking at seems identical.

You can say the same about an iphone and an ipod touch, they look virtually the same.
 

OSMac

macrumors 65816
Jun 14, 2010
1,455
7
First of all there are already different windows versions, 32/64 bit for example also limits certain programs, is it an issue? No because almost all programs are comiled for the both.

So are the windows apps: 95% runs on both versions .

You seem to want windows to fail (can think of any reason actually why you ould want that) and seem to be making up "bad thins that might happen"

----------


So?

Here on both you can run metro apps .



You can say the same about an iphone and an ipod touch, they look virtually the same.

100% of existing Windows 7 programs do not run on RT, thats the issue .

Call it Surface RT, get the word out to vendors not to post Windows 8 in ads for RT devices. Forget the spots with dancing kids, run a spot to educate consumers on why giving up running existing windows programs worth the trade off for RT ... if it is.
 
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MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
100% of existing Windows 7 programs do not run on RT, thats the issue .

Call it Surface RT, get the word out to vendors not to post Windows 8 in ads for RT devices. Forget the spots with dancing kids, run a spot to educate consumers on why giving up running existing windows programs worth the trade off for RT if it is.

There's no point trying to explain, he's stuck in his viewpoint and can not objectively see what we and many other analysts are actually saying.
 

thejadedmonkey

macrumors G3
May 28, 2005
9,240
3,499
Pennsylvania
One runs Windows 8 Pro and has backwards compatability between Windows 8 (metro) apps and Windows 7 apps.

The other runs Windows 8, and doesn't have backwards compatability.

It's not difficult.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
One runs Windows 8 Pro and has backwards compatability between Windows 8 (metro) apps and Windows 7 apps.

The other runs Windows 8, and doesn't have backwards compatability.

It's not difficult.


The other doesn't run Windows 8, it runs Windows RT... ;)

So obviously it's a little more difficult than you assert.



Windows 8 & Windows 8 pro are not Windows RT.
 

k995

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2010
933
173
The other doesn't run Windows 8, it runs Windows RT... ;)

So obviously it's a little more difficult than you assert.



Windows 8 & Windows 8 pro are not Windows RT.

Its still windows 8

Thats like saying android for panasonic eluga or Ainovo Novo 7 isnt android .

----------

100% of existing Windows 7 programs do not run on RT, thats the issue .

So?

OSX programs dont run on iOS even if they share a lot , do you think people try to install OSX apps?

Call it Surface RT, get the word out to vendors not to post Windows 8 in ads for RT devices. Forget the spots with dancing kids, run a spot to educate consumers on why giving up running existing windows programs worth the trade off for RT ... if it is.

Its still windows 8 and you can still use apps across devices.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,885
8,055
Its still windows 8

Thats like saying android for panasonic eluga or Ainovo Novo 7 isnt android .

Bad example. Better example would be, does the Kindle Fire run Android? The Fire does run on a variant of Android, but if someone bought the Fire and expected to be able to run the apps he bought for his Galaxy phone on it, he'd be disappointed.

So with Windows RT, if someone buys it, and expects to run the Word 2007 he bought for his Dell laptop on it, it wouldn't run.

While if someone bought a Win 8 machine, then that copy of Word 2007 would run.

So, Win 8 and Win RT... are they the same? Not if you want to run Word 2007! Or even Word 2010, for that matter.

OSX programs dont run on iOS even if they share a lot , do you think people try to install OSX apps?

Yes, they share a lot, but they don't look identical. Win 8 and Win RT look exactly the same.
 

VFC

macrumors 6502a
Feb 6, 2012
514
10
SE PA.
100% of existing Windows 7 programs do not run on RT, thats the issue .

Call it Surface RT, get the word out to vendors not to post Windows 8 in ads for RT devices. Forget the spots with dancing kids, run a spot to educate consumers on why giving up running existing windows programs worth the trade off for RT ... if it is.

What's most important to me is Office file compatibility. RT comes with a free copy of MS Office (that would be the most costly s/w to repurchase). All my Office documents (Word, Excel, Power Point) that I created on my XP machine at work will be compatible with the RT, and vice-versa.
 

OSMac

macrumors 65816
Jun 14, 2010
1,455
7
What's most important to me is Office file compatibility. RT comes with a free copy of MS Office (that would be the most costly s/w to repurchase). All my Office documents (Word, Excel, Power Point) that I created on my XP machine at work will be compatible with the RT, and vice-versa.

Unless they have macros or mismatched fonts, not sure how font installation will work with RT or if its even possible.

But thats a fair reason your willing to accept the lack of running windows 7 programs for a copy of Office RT, just remember the Office RT license is for home and student use only...
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
What's most important to me is Office file compatibility. RT comes with a free copy of MS Office (that would be the most costly s/w to repurchase). All my Office documents (Word, Excel, Power Point) that I created on my XP machine at work will be compatible with the RT, and vice-versa.

Do you use macros? If so they won't be compatible. Also Office 2010 trial with free Starter version has been bundled free on laptops for a good while now.

----------

Unless they have macros or mismatched fonts, not sure how font installation will work with RT or if its even possible.

But thats a fair reason your willing to accept the lack of running windows 7 programs for a copy of Office RT, just remember the Office RT license is for home and student use only...

Yep this is true, see below..

There are three serious caveats to consider, though.

1. Not for Commercial Use
Paul Thurrott, a prominent expert on Windows, pointed out that the licence for Office 2013 Home & Student 2013 RT allows only for non-commercial use just like the PC version. That means that even though the Surface RT tablet comes with the Office apps pre-installed, the tablet cant actually be used for business productivity out of the box.

Thurrott explains that it isn't entirely true that the Office 2013 Home & Student 2013 RT apps can't be used for business. Microsoft has clarified that customers simply need to buy the standard Office 2013 licence, and that allows them to also legally use the Office RT apps for commercial use.

That is a workaround, but basically means the Office RT apps that come pre-installed can only be used for business productivity if you also subscribe to Office 365, or invest additional money to buy the full PC version as well.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
Are you sure? I've heard the RT rev is Office front to back, and offers everything the x86 version does, sans plugin compatibility.

No, it's not compatible with macros and a lot more...

Verge
To optimize for Windows RT, Microsoft has made the decision to remove a number of features from its Office 2013 RT release to ensure battery life and reliability are not impacted on tablet devices. Macros, third-party add-ins, and VBA support will all be dropped from the Office 2013 RT edition, and one source says a "small number" of other features have also been removed

Engadget
As for features, Office 2013 RT will not include Macro or add-in support, and certain legacy features such as older media formats has also been removed. Microsoft says that certain email features will not be supported as Windows RT does not include support for an Office RT version of Outlook. Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote 2013 RT versions will all be part of Windows RT tablets that ship from October 26th. Data model support, recording narrations, and searching embedded audio / video file support has also been dropped from the Office 2013 RT edition.


And for a full list of stuff removed directly from the horses mouth so to speak; Microsoft... This is quite an extensive list....

What Office Home & Student 2013 features are unavailable in Office Home & Student 2013 RT?

Across multiple applications
Macros, Add-Ins, Forms, and Custom Programs (Word, Excel, PowerPoint)
In other versions of Office you or a software developer can use tools such as Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) to write and run macros and other custom programs in Office. VBA is not available for the applications in Office Home & Student 2013 RT.

To use macros, add-ins, forms with custom code, or other custom programs in Office documents, you need a version of Office other than Office Home & Student 2013 RT on a computer or tablet not powered by Windows RT. Other versions of Office cannot be installed on Windows RT devices. For example, Office Home & Student 2013 and Office Professional 2013 support these features but cannot be installed on Windows RT devices.
If you already use macros, add-ins, InfoPath forms with custom programs, or other custom programs in your PC or Mac version of Office, you will not be able to use them in Office Home & Student 2013 RT.


Send Email Features (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote)
Your Windows RT tablet does not support Outlook or other desktop email applications such as Mozilla Thunderbird or Opera. Due to this, certain email features available for Office documents in other Office versions are not supported in Office Home & Student 2013 RT:
"Send as … (attachment)" features in the Office Backstage view
Word mail merge features related to email
Sending email links to share slides using the PowerPoint Broadcast Slide Show button on the Slide Show tab
OneNote email share options and email-related options in the Tools/Options menu
Many email-related buttons in the Office Ribbon and Quick Assist Toolbar
Instead, you can open your Windows RT email app or use another email app that may be available from the Windows Store, manually create an email message and attach your document to it.
SkyDrive Sync Integration (Word, Excel, PowerPoint)

Office Home & Student 2013 RT does not support automatic synchronization between personal SkyDrive documents and your local disk. Instead, you can access SkyDrive through the Office Backstage view and use the Open or Save commands to open or save your documents.
Equation Editor 3.0 (Word, Excel, PowerPoint)

Office Home & Student 2013 RT does not support editing equations written with Equation Editor, which was used in older versions of Office. You’ll still be able to view equations written with Equation Editor, but you cannot edit them. An improved feature to make it easier to write and edit equations was introduced in Office 2007 and is included in Office Home & Student 2013 RT. You can find it in the Insert toolbar under Symbols.

Lync File Download
Microsoft Lync is not included on Windows RT devices. As a result the “Allow Lync File Download” command is disabled and files/attachments from Lync meetings cannot be downloaded into OneNote. To use the Lync File Download feature, you need Office 365 Small Business Premium, a version of Office that includes the Lync application on a computer or tablet not powered by Windows RT. Other versions of Office cannot be installed on Windows RT devices.

Word only
Grammar checking for certain language versions of Office
The grammar checking /style checking feature in Word 2013 RT is available for the following languages only: English, French, German, Spanish, Arabic, Danish, Italian, Norwegian Bokmal, Portuguese – Brazilian, Russian, Japanese, Chinese – Simplified, Chinese –Traditional and Korean. Spell checking and other proofing components are available for more languages.
Grammar / style checkers for some of these languages were not ready in time for the preview edition, but will be included in the final edition of Word 2013 RT.

Excel only
Data Models
Excel 2013 RT does not support creating a Data Model. You can create traditional PivotTables, QueryTables and Pivot Charts. To create a Data Model, use a version of Office other than Office Home & Student 2013 RT on a computer or tablet not powered by Windows RT. Other versions of Office cannot be installed on Windows RT devices. For example, Office Home & Student 2013 and Office Professional 2013 support this feature but cannot be installed on Windows RT devices.

PowerPoint only
Slide Library ActiveX Control
PowerPoint 2013 RT does not support the SharePoint Slide Library toolbar for slide library related actions (insert/upload/etc.) Instead, you can use the Slide Reuse pane, which you can find at Home Tab -> New Slide -> Reuse Slides.

Legacy Media Formats in PowerPoint
PowerPoint 2013 RT does not support certain legacy media formats. These older formats will not play, transcode, compress, or be included when exporting a presentation to video. It is likely that other applications on Windows RT devices will be unable to support these legacy media formats.
Instead of using legacy media formats, you should use modern media formats such as H.264 and Advanced Audio Coding (AAC), which PowerPoint 2013 RT supports. You can convert to modern media formats through the Optimize for Compatibility feature found in the Backstage view of PowerPoint 2010 or non-RT versions of
PowerPoint 2013.
PowerPoint Flash Video Playback
In PowerPoint 2013 RT you will not be able to insert or play back videos from online sites that use video designed for the Adobe Flash Player.
Recording Narrations
You will not be able to use the Record Narrations feature in PowerPoint 2013 RT.

OneNote only
Audio and video recording
Recording audio/video notes from inside OneNote 2013 RT is not supported. Instead, you can record audio or video with other software, then insert it through Insert → File to add onto the OneNote page.
Import through scanner
Importing a printed document or picture into OneNote 2013 RT through an attached scanner is not supported. Instead, you can scan images through another program (for example, the default scanning app in Windows RT or another scanning app you download from the Windows Store), then import the images into OneNote.
Audio & video search
Searching for words appearing in an embedded audio or video file is not supported in OneNote 2013 RT.


So you still think it has a full feature set ? ;) just more confusion to add to the already confusing scenario.
 
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Renzatic

Suspended
So you still think it has a full feature set ? ;) just more confusion to add to the already confusing scenario.

That's a...uh...fairly extensive list. Office RT is definitely the student and home edition. Those cuts make it nearly unusable for anything else beyond.

Then again, anything else beyond is the market the Pro is aimed at, so it's at least semi-justifiable.
 

SlCKB0Y

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2012
3,431
557
Sydney, Australia
Why? 1 can run metro apps the other all apps . Does apple have to explain the difference between an ipad and a macbook?

1. Desktop Mac OS X does not include the iOS touch interface and does not default to it like Windows 8 does.
2. Apple did not make a full Mac OS X tablet that looks pretty much the same as the iPad but with the ability to run desktop applications.
3. Apple did not brand the iPad as running Mac OS X.
4. From even before it was released there was no confusion as to the capabilities of the iPad (I remember the media calling it "a big iPod touch".
 
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sineplex

macrumors 6502
Aug 24, 2010
342
0
That's a...uh...fairly extensive list. Office RT is definitely the student and home edition. Those cuts make it nearly unusable for anything else beyond.

Then again, anything else beyond is the market the Pro is aimed at, so it's at least semi-justifiable.

yup. great for students. $600bux :eek:
 

k995

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2010
933
173
Bad example. Better example would be, does the Kindle Fire run Android? The Fire does run on a variant of Android, but if someone bought the Fire and expected to be able to run the apps he bought for his Galaxy phone on it, he'd be disappointed.
The difference is in hardware, the fire can be changed to run everything .

So with Windows RT, if someone buys it, and expects to run the Word 2007 he bought for his Dell laptop on it, it wouldn't run.
Word is included and again do people expect to run OSX software on an ipad?

Yu are saying because they are simular people are' too stupid to recognize the difference .

Could make a joke about apple users here.
 

VFC

macrumors 6502a
Feb 6, 2012
514
10
SE PA.
Apple has been working some of the iOS apps into OSX. However, MS beat them to the punch with a totally integrated Legacy/Touch-Tablet OS. Now Apple will be unable to release the same type of OS, on say a touch-retina-MB Air, or MS will take them to court.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,885
8,055
Word is included and again do people expect to run OSX software on an ipad?

Some people may want to run 2007 instead of the version that comes with RT. More important, they may have other old Windows software that does not come with RT that they want to use. It's not the same as OS X not running on iPads, because Apple never made tablets that run OS X. What if Apple made an "iPad Pro" that did run OS X, but continued selling regular iPads that only run iOS? And the Pro and regular iPads looked exactly alike, until you tried to run OS X software on it?
 
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