Consumer Mac Tower?

[kildraik]

I looked throught the previous threads but didn't find anything similar, so if there is please point me out...

But is there any chance that there will be a "Consumer Mac Tower" to the Mac Pro as the MacBook is to the MacBook Pro?

If so, what would be the likely specs/prices?

 

[mad jew]

It'd be nice but I can't see Apple doing this because of where the current mini stands.

 

[Sun Baked]

Apple tried one on the LAST single processor PowerMac, it was problematic and quickly canceled.

It was basically an expanded iMac with some slots in a PowerMac case.

It's not unreasonable for Apple to do it again.

---

A sleek minitower case would also be great, something to make it look like a consumer machine.

Happy, happy, joy, joy if it had a video card and a single expansion slot.

 

[Chundles]

Cube 2. I'm waiting....

But this time make it cheaper.

 

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

Cube 2. I'm waiting....

But this time make it cheaper.

The Cube. Back for an Encore

hehe....

 

[kildraik]

Apple tried one on the LAST single processor PowerMac, it was problematic and quickly canceled.

It was basically an expanded iMac with some slots in a PowerMac case.

It's not unreasonable for Apple to do it again.

---

A sleek minitower case would also be great, something to make it look like a consumer machine.

Happy, happy, joy, joy if it had a video card and a single expansion slot.

Thats what I was thinking, maybe an iMac, but in tower form (minus the screen, of course), and a LOT of room for expansion vs. the current iMac. What is the probobility for Apple doing this again? If they did, it would sell well, wouldn't it?

 

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

Thats what I was thinking, maybe an iMac, but in tower form (minus the screen, of course). What is the probobility for Apple doing this again? If they did, it would sell well, wouldn't it?

If they made it affordable, maybe...

Let's see - if the iMac/Mac Mini uses Merom and the Mac Pro uses Woodcrest then...

...where's Conroe?

Oh, THERE IT IS...in the MacCube or whatever they call it....

 

[Josias]

Apple tried one on the LAST single processor PowerMac, it was problematic and quickly canceled.

It was basically an expanded iMac with some slots in a PowerMac case.

It's not unreasonable for Apple to do it again.

Are you talking about the cube G4? It had a terrible design, though it was extremely silent. No fans at all. Actually, if people want a tower, they should go PC. I don't understand what is so good about towers. Here are the thigns that can be upgraded in a tower and not in an iMac for example.

GPU (I think iMacs can't be upgraded, but since Apple can upgrade for you to a 256 MB card, I think you would be able to).

More RAM (iMac has two slots, PowerMac has eight. If you want more than 2 GB, it's not a consumer tower, and the iMac does support 4 GB)

PCI-X: Possibilty for Fibre Channel cards, soundcards...

HDD: The iMac has one SATA bay, and PM has two, yet if you want more than 500 gigs, it's not a consumer machine either (there are also external HDD's)

No reason for a consumer tower as I see it...

 

[Sun Baked]

Thats what I was thinking, maybe an iMac, but in tower form (minus the screen, of course), and a LOT of room for expansion vs. the current iMac. What is the probobility for Apple doing this again? If they did, it would sell well, wouldn't it?

Don't remember how it sold before it was terminated, but it was a short lived machine.

>Josias

Nope the 10-2004 SP PowerMac G5

http://developer.apple.com/document...es/Macintosh_CPUs-G5/PowerMacG5_SP/index.html

which was an iMac in a PowerMac G5 case, and that IS the iMac G5 chipset.

 

[Heb1228]

But is there any chance that there will be a "Consumer Mac Tower" to the Mac Pro as the MacBook is to the MacBook Pro?

On a scale from bad to really terrible, I rate this utterly ridiculous.

 

[iDave]

No reason for a consumer tower as I see it...

You forgot the most important thing that can be upgraded with a tower, the display! There is currently no choice between the $800 mini and the $2000 Power Mac, for those of us who need (or already have) a big display. The G5 Power Mac is embarrassingly large; one of Apple's biggest design failures. The mini is pretty sad, with its laptop hard drive, etc.

To suggest that those of us who need a tower buy a WinPC is ridiculous. A small somewhat expandable headless Mac "tower" would sell well.

 

[Josias]

You forgot the most important thing that can be upgraded with a tower, the display! There is currently no choice between the $800 mini and the $2000 Power Mac, for those of us who need (or already have) a big display. The G5 Power Mac is embarrassingly large; one of Apple's biggest design failures. The mini is pretty sad, with its laptop hard drive, etc.

To suggest that those of us who need a tower buy a WinPC is ridiculous. A small somewhat expandable headless Mac "tower" would sell well.

What? G5 a failure. It is teh uber tower ever made. You can upgrade the iMac display. It has video out. And BTW, why would you wanna do that? It's 17 or 20 inches, how can you possibly need more screenspace being a consumer? 23" and 30" are so massive and expensive anyway, that no consumer can afford them. If you have a non-apple screen (very probable), you can just use the Mini with an external HDD. Still a lot cheaper than a consumer tower would be...

 

[iDave]

What? G5 a failure. It is teh uber tower ever made. You can upgrade the iMac display. It has video out. And BTW, why would you wanna do that? It's 17 or 20 inches, how can you possibly need more screenspace being a consumer? 23" and 30" are so massive and expensive anyway, that no consumer can afford them. If you have a non-apple screen (very probable), you can just use the Mini with an external HDD. Still a lot cheaper than a consumer tower would be...

Ok, I guess the key word here is "consumer." I'm a photographer. I need a big display. I currently have a 23" Cinema and am saving for a 30. I don't need the power or expense of a Power Mac (though I bought one because I had no other choice). The mini is not enough computer for me. I guess I'm not the typical "consumer" but I would gladly sell my uber tower for something smaller.

And yes, the uber tower is definitely a design failure. It works, but it's about twice as large as it needs to be. I barely have room for it in my living room.

 

[Timepass]

Are you talking about the cube G4? It had a terrible design, though it was extremely silent. No fans at all. Actually, if people want a tower, they should go PC. I don't understand what is so good about towers. Here are the thigns that can be upgraded in a tower and not in an iMac for example.

GPU (I think iMacs can't be upgraded, but since Apple can upgrade for you to a 256 MB card, I think you would be able to).

More RAM (iMac has two slots, PowerMac has eight. If you want more than 2 GB, it's not a consumer tower, and the iMac does support 4 GB)

PCI-X: Possibilty for Fibre Channel cards, soundcards...

HDD: The iMac has one SATA bay, and PM has two, yet if you want more than 500 gigs, it's not a consumer machine either (there are also external HDD's)

No reason for a consumer tower as I see it...

Hmmmm going to have to say you dont understand the point of towers and what makes them nice.
First off the upgrading in a tower is what makes nicer. Displays can and general do out last the computer part. (along with mice and keyboards). So the nice display never go to waste but even beside that minor point I hit you on the big ones.

Towers can be upgraded easily extentding the life of the computer. I just use my parents tower PC as a clear examples of this in extending the life of there computer (which is pushing 6 years nows. These people are not computer people at all.
Ram upgrade (you can do that on the macs mute point)

A eithernet card was added to it. 6 years ago eithernet poors where new. Highspeed was just starting to come out.

A wireless card G card has been added. Lets see when that computer was new Wireless G was not even created yet.

A DVD drive and a DVD burner has both been added to the computer

USB2.0 and firewire ports added to by expantion card USB 2.0 was not even around when we got the computer and firewire was very rare if used much at all.

That is just an example list of average users on how they extented the life of there computer a few more years with just a few minor upgrades to the computer. Yes it coming to the end of it life and is slated to be replaced in the next 6-8 months, But come on the thing is 6 years old and had extra life push out of it because of add ons. And after wards I taking the computer to make it a linux box to play with and see if I can make it a file server for me.

Tower advatage is being able to do minor upgrades greatly increasing the usefulness and service life. That being you cut a corner when you got the computer (GPU for example) and want to add it later. or some new techology comes out that you want to use (Parents Wireless G).

Really telling people to get a PC because they dont like what apple currently offers is an example of why people think apple users are so full of themselves. An image that they need to shed but to many of them are full of themselves and it only takes a few to make it seem like all apple users are full of themselves and think they are better than everyone else. Newsflash for those people. You are not better than everyone else and you need to get over your self

 

[Heb1228]

To suggest that those of us who need a tower buy a WinPC is ridiculous. A small somewhat expandable headless Mac "tower" would sell well.

No it wouldn't. You're overestimating how many people there are in the same kind of situation. Plus towers are so 1990's. The PowerMac line (whatever its called in the future) will continue to be desktop towers, but Apple will not make another computer tower line.

The iMac fills the position you are talking about perfectly well. Especially now that can work with an eternal display.

 

[iDave]

No it wouldn't.

I stand corrected then.

Like I'm going to buy an iMac to use with my display.

 

[kildraik]

Are you talking about the cube G4? It had a terrible design, though it was extremely silent. No fans at all. Actually, if people want a tower, they should go PC.
<snip>
More RAM (iMac has two slots, PowerMac has eight. If you want more than 2 GB, it's not a consumer tower, and the iMac does support 4 GB)
<snip>
No reason for a consumer tower as I see it...

I actually liked the cube, and I disagree with the PC part. Nasty. I am all Mac.
Also, it is true that the iMac can have 4GB ram... at around $1700 per 2GBx1 SODIMM stick, so if you want a $3700 or so iMac...
And finally, a conumer tower would be fantastic.

 

[Heb1228]

I stand corrected then.

Like I'm going to buy an iMac to use with my display.

Why not? You can make your ACD the main display and use the iMac screen as a secondary monitor, nor not use it at all. Its functionally a dual monitor setup, for about the price you're looking for and plenty of power.

 

[ddrueckhammer]

Hmmmm going to have to say you dont understand the point of towers and what makes them nice.
First off the upgrading in a tower is what makes nicer.

The idea behind the iMac is that it is a consumer level computer and most consumers don't want to do hardware upgrades. Those would be prosumers (ie gamers). Also, the deflating cost of LCDs and the high resale value of Macs in general makes the upgrade path less attractive. When you want a new computer just sell the whole iMac and the display won't go to waste because it is figured into the resale value...

Also, iMacs are probably the best value in the Mac lineup IMHO. Price a Mac Mini and ACD with close to the same specs as an iMac (sans dedicated graphics) and you will see that the iMac comes out far ahead. I know that Mac displays in general are grossly overpriced but the iMac is still a good value just for the aestetics.

 

[surroundfan]

The problem with the current desktop structure (Mini, AIO iMac, PowerMac), is that none of the models available are particularly well suited for HTPC usage (the Mini because of the integrated graphics, small HDD and lack of expandability, the iMac because of the superfluous display and lack of expandability, and the PowerMac because of its bulk and price).

If Apple is serious about mounting a push into the lounge room, they need a computer that is cheaper than an iMac, offers decent HDD space, has the ability to add a TV tuner card, a better graphics card and (at a later date) a HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive and can be used with any display.

 

[Heb1228]

A eithernet card was added to it. 6 years ago eithernet poors where new. Highspeed was just starting to come out.

A wireless card G card has been added. Lets see when that computer was new Wireless G was not even created yet.

A DVD drive and a DVD burner has both been added to the computer

USB2.0 and firewire ports added to by expantion card USB 2.0 was not even around when we got the computer and firewire was very rare if used much at all.

Instead of buying all that junk, why don't you just go buy a $399 compaq that has all the stuff on it anyway. Plus you get a faster processor and bigger hard drive.

The whole "upgrading" idea with PCs does nothing but spread the same cost over shorter intervals. You end up playing about the same in the end and get your upgrades in small doses instead of all at once. I know. I used to do it. But lets be realistic. People do it because they think its fun to build computers, not because they're actually saving money.

 

[iDave]

I don't question that the iMac is a good value.

There are those of us who prefer modular Macs and those who prefer all-in-ones. As I said in an earlier post, I'm saving for a 30" display and the iMac won't work for me. All-in-ones are great, for portables. I just don't like the idea of a desktop all-in-one. I had a "sunflower" iMac and didn't keep it long.

Those who say there will never be a mid-range headless Mac are probably right. Apple knows it can force people like me to buy Power Macs. Apple makes a ton of money that way. To offer a mid-range tower or headless would severely cut into Power Mac sales.

I've seen this subject debated at considerable length on other forums; just not much lately. It's a subject that will probably never go away until Apple upgrades the mini or downgrades the Power Mac.

 

[Heb1228]

Youre mostly right, but it has nothing to do with pushing people into PowerMacs. It has to do with simple product strategy. That was Steve's main thing when he went back to Apple in '97. Pro and consumer desktop and pro and consumer laptop. The mini and eMac have been slight breaks from those product lines, but only to offer a lower cost option than the cheapest iMac.

Simple is the key word here. Some people want an ultra-portable, some people want a PDA, some people want a tablet... blah, blah, blah... consumer desktop tower... whatever... As it stands, the choice is simple: Desktop or laptop? Pro or consumer? Thats the way it should and will stay.

 

[iDave]

Simple is the key word here. Some people want an ultra-portable, some people want a PDA, some people want a tablet... blah, blah, blah... consumer desktop tower... whatever... As it stands, the choice is simple: Desktop or laptop? Pro or consumer? Thats the way it should and will stay.

Yep, I agree, although surroundfan makes a good argument for something else.

 

[ddrueckhammer]

The problem with the current desktop structure (Mini, AIO iMac, PowerMac), is that none of the models available are particularly well suited for HTPC usage (the Mini because of the integrated graphics, small HDD and lack of expandability...

I agree with you here...I sent a suggestion on Apple's feedback page the day the new Minis were released to split the Mini line into two lines.

1. $499 Entry Level Mini: (Core Duo or Solo who cares) integrated graphics etc.
2. $799-$999 HT Mini: Core Duo, Descreet Graphics (Possibly Hardware decoding), 3.5" Hard Drives up to 500Gb.

If I were redesigning the Mini, I would make the case slightly larger to accomodate 3.5" Hard Drives for the increased storage across the board but continue to use laptop components for everything else (assuming the engineering is possible). I really don't think that much larger of a form factor is needed. If you need more space than 500Gb then dump some of your files to a external firewire drive. Apple could even market their own external drive that downloads videos from the mini with 1-touch or even better make it a function of the new Video iPod...