Consumer Mac Tower?

[janey]

Nah, I agree with the OP about having a tower.

The mini is insanely small (arguably too small). There are decent microATX and other small form factor desktops and it wouldn't hurt to take a leaf from those designs (aka g4 cube style), cause they're ever so slightly bigger than the mac mini but smaller than full size desktops and have a mix of the good qualities of both..the small size and also the room for fullsize hardware (i.e. 3.5" drives and an actual not-retarded gfx card)

It's sort of inconvenient that there's nothing between the mini's un-upgradability and the iMac's comes-with-too-much and the Power Mac's excessive size. Alas, i doubt things will change anytime soon though.

(building PCs is a lot of fun and gives you plenty of room for customization. unfortunately it's not possible to legally run OS X on my PC..)

 

[THX1139]

The G5 Power Mac is embarrassingly large; one of Apple's biggest design failures. The mini is pretty sad, with its laptop hard drive, etc.

To suggest that those of us who need a tower buy a WinPC is ridiculous. A small somewhat expandable headless Mac "tower" would sell well.

The G5 design was/is legendary. A lot of case makers tried to copy it with varied success. The reason it was so "big" was to accomodate the cooling requirements for the G5 chip. With the lower power requirements of Core duo, Apple may shrink the case. But I for one, hope they keep the design.

 

[kildraik]

The problem with the current desktop structure (Mini, AIO iMac, PowerMac), is that none of the models available are particularly well suited for HTPC usage (the Mini because of the integrated graphics, small HDD and lack of expandability, the iMac because of the superfluous display and lack of expandability, and the PowerMac because of its bulk and price).

If Apple is serious about mounting a push into the lounge room, they need a computer that is cheaper than an iMac, offers decent HDD space, has the ability to add a TV tuner card, a better graphics card and (at a later date) a HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive and can be used with any display.

Quite agreeable. In fact, you make an excellent point. I have an iMac. No doubt it's amazing, but i need a bigger display (I know, the 20 inch, but money didn't allow...) and I feel very concealed due to very low expandability and upgradability. I feel as if when I need to get a new technology, I would need to buy a completely new system, as I couldn't swap the part (safely). I think a "consumer" or "lower end" tower, priced at around $1000 would be very reasonable, and possible, considering wheather or not it's been thought of.

The G5 design was/is legendary. A lot of case makers tried to copy it with varied success. The reason it was so "big" was to accomodate the cooling requirements for the G5 chip. With the lower power requirements of Core duo, Apple may shrink the case. But I for one, hope they keep the design.

I love the design of the G5 PowerMac. In fact, if they do dispose of the design, I would actually be frustrated. It's funny, because when I'm around them, they actually seem to intimidate me...

 

[THX1139]

Ok, I guess the key word here is "consumer." I'm a photographer. I need a big display. I currently have a 23" Cinema and am saving for a 30. I don't need the power or expense of a Power Mac (though I bought one because I had no other choice). The mini is not enough computer for me. I guess I'm not the typical "consumer" but I would gladly sell my uber tower for something smaller.

And yes, the uber tower is definitely a design failure. It works, but it's about twice as large as it needs to be. I barely have room for it in my living room.

Sheesh... then buy a laptop and hook it up to your monitor instead. Then you'll have the best of both worlds and more power than a mini. I can't understand people who buy a technology and then complain about it. There are so many choices that I wonder if you did your homework before buying. A friend of mine is a commercial photographer. He's getting along fine with a 13" Powerbook hooked up to an external monitor. What's your problem?

The G5 is not a design failure, you just bought the wrong computer. Do you really think Apple made the case that big just because they could? It was designed to cool the G5 chip. You should know that since you own one.

I love the design of the G5 PowerMac. In fact, if they do dispose of the design, I would actually be frustrated. It's funny, because when I'm around them, they actually seem to intimidate me...

I totally agree. The G5 case is the only case that Apple has done that still looks good after all these years. I look back at the B&W or Quicksilver and they just look cheesy compared to the G5. Especially the old Blue and White with it's plastic handles. True, the G5 case is BIG, but I don't really care as long as it gets the job done and looks great while doing it. I can understand why some consumers might not like it due to it's size, but it wasn't intended for them. Consumers have a lot of other options available so they aren't forced to buy all that power. Oh well, to each is own. There are even people who complain about the Macbook Pro design! I say, why change perfection?

 

[netdog]

The Cube. Back for an Encore

hehe....

I think you mean...

The Cube.......Back in Black for a mere $200 extra.

 

[kallaway1]

Sheesh... then buy a laptop and hook it up to your monitor instead. Then you'll have the best of both worlds and more power than a mini. I can't understand people who buy a technology and then complain about it. There are so many choices that I wonder if you did your homework before buying. A friend of mine is a commercial photographer. He's getting along fine with a 13" Powerbook hooked up to an external monitor. What's your problem?

The G5 is not a design failure, you just bought the wrong computer. Do you really think Apple made the case that big just because they could? It was designed to cool the G5 chip. You should know that since you own one.

First, maybe he doesn't need a laptop? Why should he pay more for portability (and the laptop screen) when he won't even be using it? Assuming that just because your friend is a photographer, his needs must be identical to iDave's is just asinine.

Second, asking him "what is problem is," just because he has a differing viewpoint on the importance of consumers vs corporations, comes off as immature. And for the record, corporations do exist for consumers - not so that we can stroke Apple's ego all day long, cooing "that's a good boy... don't you worry about those people with unfulfilled needs in unreached target markets... who knows what their problem is."

I would pick about the 13" powerbook, but well... you'll probably figure that one out.

 

[kildraik]

I totally agree. The G5 case is the only case that Apple has done that still looks good after all these years. I look back at the B&W or Quicksilver and they just look cheesy compared to the G5. Especially the old Blue and White with it's plastic handles. True, the G5 case is BIG, but I don't really care as long as it gets the job done and looks great while doing it. I can understand why some consumers might not like it due to it's size, but it wasn't intended for them. Consumers have a lot of other options available so they aren't forced to buy all that power. Oh well, to each is own. There are even people who complain about the Macbook Pro design! I say, why change perfection?

By saying that, the G5 case could still be around for many years to come and would not get boring. Sure, maybe some slight size should be taken into consideration, but again as you say the machine was built to perform, and at it's best. The idea of a "consumer type" tower should still be in play nonetheless. It would give a broader range of other people to decide to get either an iMac and be fine with its hardware for a few years, or get a tower and upgrade along the way, even the display. To me design is as important as the hardware. It must be beautiful both ways.

The Cube.......Back in Black for a mere $200 extra.

I would get sick if Apple made a black tower... It has "DELL" written all over it...

 

[2ndPath]

There is one more big advantage of the expandability of a Tower: If one component breaks, you don't have to replace the whole machine. I, for example, had firewire broken on two Macs, which could have easily been replaced by a Firewire expnsion card on a Powermac or halfway decently on a Powerbook. With all other Macs you really have a problem if you ran out of warrenty.

About the expandability of the Powermac G5s: For a pro machine its upgradability is is still pretty limited, beeing only two HDs and one DVD drive. This is half of what was possible in the Powermac G4s.

About external expansion: The whole beaty of an all-in-one-design is destroyed if you have to place external boxes contaning HDs or other drives next to the machine. At least I prefer then to have one bigger box under the table and one Display on the table than having several small boxes on the table.

 

[Maxiseller]

There is one more big advantage of the expandability of a Tower: If one component breaks, you don't have to replace the whole machine. I, for example, had firewire broken on two Macs, which could have easily been replaced by a Firewire expnsion card on a Powermac or halfway decently on a Powerbook. With all other Macs you really have a problem if you ran out of warrenty.

About the expandability of the Powermac G5s: For a pro machine its upgradability is is still pretty limited, beeing only two HDs and one DVD drive. This is half of what was possible in the Powermac G4s.

About external expansion: The whole beaty of an all-in-one-design is destroyed if you have to place external boxes contaning HDs or other drives next to the machine. At least I prefer then to have one bigger box under the table and one Display on the table than having several small boxes on the table.

All true. I also have a PM and the firewire has died on that too. Unfortunately however I was doing a firewire transfer to my ibook at the time. The result? A simple card added to the Powermac gets it up and running again - the ibook...just lost some more resale value!

There is a lot of slating other people going on here just because they have differing needs to most. The photographer earlier for example - lets face it, there aren't many programmes out there that NEED quad processors, but they certainly need a large screen.

The point is that I can go and build myself a mid-range PC which will last me a longer time due to the fact that if a new technology comes out, I'm to a large extent covered as I can just add it in. On an imac that just isn't possible.

I choose to use a mac, but the options aren't as plentiful as they might be.

 

[zap2]

if you need 500Gb for a mini get an external harddrive! They have the nice ones that sit under the iMac.

Few people i know for need 500Gb(people that would consider the Mini, people doing Vidoe Editing and such are not people the mini is made for)

They only people would be people using the Mini with a TV and putting DVDs on it, in which case get a external drive

 

[Timepass]

Instead of buying all that junk, why don't you just go buy a $399 compaq that has all the stuff on it anyway. Plus you get a faster processor and bigger hard drive.

The whole "upgrading" idea with PCs does nothing but spread the same cost over shorter intervals. You end up playing about the same in the end and get your upgrades in small doses instead of all at once. I know. I used to do it. But lets be realistic. People do it because they think its fun to build computers, not because they're actually saving money.

minus the fact that the total cost of those parts was less than 200. and done though out time. It not like everything was added at one time. The eithernet card was the first thing to add. got that free from SBC when getting the DSL.
Wireless card after sortly after that. that stuff is 3-4 years old now. DVD drive was added about 3 years ago. Burner is a year old.

The expantion card for the USB and firewire came from spare parts. But even if they bough them it less than 30 bucks.


So spending 200 (over 6 years) bucks on a computer that when we got it was a high-mid range computer the useful life of the computer had years added to its life.

Besides those 400 buck compacts are complete crap.

The towers would also fill this huge gapping hole apple has in it product line up. The cost and power jump bettween the iMac to the powermac is huge. Way to large. about a 800-1k diffences adjusting for the monitor and that is adjustment more than likely is not even enough.

The people who need or want something inbettween the iMac and the Powermac are SOL and that gap bettween the 2 lines is growing every year. Also as more people switch over to macs that demand is growing. A lot of people I know personally want a mac but what want falls into that huge voild in apple's line up.

As for apple trying it in the past apple general mess it up by over pricing towers. Or they gimp them way to much and still charge to much.

 

[andrewag]

Just get a powermac and be done with it. Another hardware line will confuse things even more. The mini would have been better in a bigger case but then it wouldn't have that unique status that it has atm.

 

[bbrosemer]

Wach out there could be a new "mac" all white much like the MacBook/MacBook Pro line, this idea isnt that far fetched they are looking more and more into getting into the low end consumer and intel now gives them that chance so watch out for a dual release of a Mac / MacPro

This whole argument of when a part breaks, just wait till parts begin to fail on the MacBook / MacBook Pro logic boards, once those parts start failing wait till you see how much those cost because not one part on that logic board can be switched out.

 

[iDave]

Sheesh... then buy a laptop and hook it up to your monitor instead. Then you'll have the best of both worlds and more power than a mini. I can't understand people who buy a technology and then complain about it. There are so many choices that I wonder if you did your homework before buying. A friend of mine is a commercial photographer. He's getting along fine with a 13" Powerbook hooked up to an external monitor. What's your problem?

The G5 is not a design failure, you just bought the wrong computer. Do you really think Apple made the case that big just because they could? It was designed to cool the G5 chip. You should know that since you own one.

Maybe it's because I had a mini for a while. A mini just wasn't enough computer for me and I wanted to get something better. The only choice was a Power Mac (or a PowerBook with many of the same drawbacks as a mini and a display I wouldn't use). Every time I look at that giant tower sitting next to my desk (it won't fit under) I shake my head and laugh.

I'd like to see your friend's 13" PowerBook. It must be a collectors' item.

 

[Josias]

Maybe it's because I had a mini for a while. A mini just wasn't enough computer for me and I wanted to get something better. The only choice was a Power Mac (or a PowerBook with many of the same drawbacks as a mini and a display I wouldn't use). Every time I look at that giant tower sitting next to my desk (it won't fit under) I shake my head and laugh.

I'd like to see your friend's 13" PowerBook. It must be a collectors' item.

lol, 13" PB.

Well, why didn't you get an iMac. Did the PM offer you anything the iMac didn't that you needed?

 

[celebrian23]

I love the idea of a consumer tower- but I know it won't happen in Apple's current lineup of comptuers. It just doesn't make sense. There's only a small market who isn't covered by the imac or the powermac.

 

[Mord]

Are you talking about the cube G4? It had a terrible design, though it was extremely silent. No fans at all. Actually, if people want a tower, they should go PC. I don't understand what is so good about towers. Here are the thigns that can be upgraded in a tower and not in an iMac for example.

you make baby jesus cry.

i have two cubes, they still kick ass, i'd so be all over a conroe cube if it had a proper pci-e slot cpu socket ect.

 

[balamw]

For me the biggest issue with the mini (i.e. the only current headless consumer box) is the fact it uses 2.5" HDDs. They are slower and have less capacity than their 3.5" counterparts. The integrated graphics is less of an issue for me, but it would be better.

I'd still like to see a box (I don't care what fomat pizza box, tower, cube) that has similar specs to the current Core Duo iMacs, but without the monitor. I expect that the Mac Pro's are going to be priced ~$2000 and a box like this could be priced somewhere between the mini's and the iMacs, and still have lots of oomph.

B

 

[iDave]

Well, why didn't you get an iMac. Did the PM offer you anything the iMac didn't that you needed?

Yes, the ability to connect my existing 23" display and my future 30" display. Current (newer) iMacs now have DVI (not dual-link) but it seems crazy to buy an iMac just to continue using an existing display. I tried a dual display setup in the past and didn't really like it.

Anyway, enough whining from me. I discussed this issue at length on various forums before I broke down and got a Power Mac. Now I'm set for several years.

 

[7on]

I think Apple's about to expand their product line. They added the mini a couple of years ago as a "test" I believe. I think in the coming years we will see Apple becoming more Dell like. Not in style, but in options - customizability. Though I feel Apple won't outsource their support centers, mainly based on the closing of their India center.

Even Mercedes makes large ugly semi-Trucks. Different needs, different products.

Currently I think Apple's still trying to establish itself. Slowly and surely. They have to pace themselves. Don't worry, Apple will get there eventually.

 

[dornoforpyros]

I had to remove my desk computer compartment just to fit my g5 under my desk...

I've actually got one of the "consumer" powermacs, that is a single 1.8 with 4 ram slots. Yeah, it was very similar specs to the iMac g5 at the time I'm still happy my purchase, being that I've added more ram, a second HD, and an airport card, not to mention the support for dual displays (which I've ran from time to time) it was a much better machine than an iMac for my needs.

 

[savar]

Apple tried one on the LAST single processor PowerMac, it was problematic and quickly canceled.

It was basically an expanded iMac with some slots in a PowerMac case.

It's not unreasonable for Apple to do it again.

Given that the iMac is already dual-core, it would be hard for Apple not to offer a powermac with the same specs.

I think it is a lock.

 

[Mord]

Given that the iMac is already dual-core, it would be hard for Apple not to offer a powermac with the same specs.

I think it is a lock.

single dual core compared to upcomeing dual dual core woodcrest mac pros

 

[Timepass]

Maybe it's because I had a mini for a while. A mini just wasn't enough computer for me and I wanted to get something better. The only choice was a Power Mac (or a PowerBook with many of the same drawbacks as a mini and a display I wouldn't use). Every time I look at that giant tower sitting next to my desk (it won't fit under) I shake my head and laugh.

I'd like to see your friend's 13" PowerBook. It must be a collectors' item.

I just never had an issue with my PC tower or any computer tower being next to my desk. I dont let that space just go to waste. Heck it hads to my desk space a little. Besides the tower being a good hieght for a place to rest my legs. I tend to use it to keep small things on while I am working. That being some papers I need, my bowl of muchies (normally gold fish) or a what ever I am drinking because it puts it off my main desk that can is being used for what ever I am actively working on but still put it with arm reach way from me to grab if needed or wanted while not taking up the valueable working space. I not saying putting my printer on it but only a maybe a few lb worth of stuff at any moment in time. It is a good temporare spot to keep stuff.

It one of the small little things most mac users dont really see or would think about but it really pretty nice. and I grown to like having that little extra space while working at my desk.

 

[ddrueckhammer]

They only people would be people using the Mini with a TV and putting DVDs on it, in which case get a external drive

I know they make drives that stack with the Mini but it wouldn't fit in the opening in my entertainment center under my 42" plasma. I agree though, a 500Gb hard drive should be more than enough storage for even HT enthusiests and they can offload old files to externals.

As I said before, the mini is trying to straddle two very different demographics. Low budget entry-level and Home Theater Enthusiast. And they are trying to do that or they wouldn't have bothered with optical out, Front Row, or even Core Duo processors in the high end. They should go ahead and redefine the Mini as two separate lines: Mac Mini & Mac Mini HT.

Personally, I own a couple of externals filled with video but I wouldn't want to have perminently parked next to my TV messing up my Feng Shui.

I see everyone having media rack servers in their homes in 10 years or so and keeping all of their media on demand all the time. I only have 300 or so DVDs but if I could afford an Xserve I would have them all accessible streaming at 802.11n speeds to a networked Airport Express AV or Mac Mini in the very near future. The only thing that can stop this from happening is if Apple releases a video subscription download service that makes DVDs obsolete because you can pay $4 to rent a movie any time of the day at DVD quality. The sad part is that I already have Verizon DSL over fiber optics but until video download services become mainstream it will be a waste. Sadly, the iTMS has a long way to go...

BTW, the new universal version of Tivo Desktop for Mac can send MPEG2 files back to your Tivo from your Mac for playback. Pretty nice but still not exactly full DVD quality...