Continuing on the Apple Silicon Sidelines

[ADGrant]

In terms of the performance, the 5K panel in the Studio Display is best in class for an LCD - proven to be better than that of the 27" iMac - and in suitable lighting conditions (that being, not a pitch black room with the display brightness set to max, like YouTube reviewers "real world tests") the lack of mini-LED would not compromise a content creator's workflow.

So the question remains; do you wait until Apple can get a decent margin on 27" 5K mini-LED panels, or buy a new product that will satisfy all but the most demanding creators?

The Studio Display is only marginally better than the display in the 5k iMac. I have a 2020 27" iMac and plan to hold on to it for a few years at least. The fans only ramp up when I am using all 10 cores, otherwise its nice and quiet.

I bought the iMac just after the Apple Silicon announcement but before any retail hardware was announced. I did so because I planned to wait out the first few years of the transition. This was not because I doubted the hardware but the software ecosystem needs time to catch up.

We are almost two years into the transition and critical software I need to run is not yet available in native arm versions. Other software I want to run is not available at all for Apple Silicon Macs (VMWare, x86 Windows, x86 Linux, x86 Docker images).

 

[tmoerel]

We are almost two years into the transition and critical software I need to run is not yet available in native arm versions. Other software I want to run is not available at all for Apple Silicon Macs (VMWare, x86 Windows, x86 Linux, x86 Docker images).

Yes hang on to that Intel machine. Those x86 tools will never become available. Apple has left the x86 ship. ARM all the way now.

 

[ADGrant]

Yes hang on to that Intel machine. Those x86 tools will never become available. Apple has left the x86 ship. ARM all the way now.

I plan to. Apple has not quite left the x64 ship and neither have all MacOS applications. This will change over time and the ARM64 Linux/Docker ecosystem will also mature over time thanks in part to AWS and its Graviton SoCs.

What is not so certain is Microsofts support for ARM. The latest version of .NET Core now supports ARM64 and Office runs on Apple Silicon but Teams requires Rosetta. They have offered Windows On ARM for years and Office supports it with Native apps but not much else does. Visual Studio 2022 needs x64 Windows and is the first release of Visual Studio to even support x64.

Tools like VMWare and Virtual Box may become available on Apple Silicon but without the ability to run x64 Windows, companies like VMWare may not feel it is worth the effort.

 

[mcnallym]

The Studio Display is only marginally better than the display in the 5k iMac. I have a 2020 27" iMac and plan to hold on to it for a few years at least. The fans only ramp up when I am using all 10 cores, otherwise its nice and quiet.

I bought the iMac just after the Apple Silicon announcement but before any retail hardware was announced. I did so because I planned to wait out the first few years of the transition. This was not because I doubted the hardware but the software ecosystem needs time to catch up.

We are almost two years into the transition and critical software I need to run is not yet available in native arm versions. Other software I want to run is not available at all for Apple Silicon Macs (VMWare, x86 Windows, x86 Linux, x86 Docker images).

I think you are unfortunately going to be looking at moving away from Mac OS period.

Probably best bet would be two machines if want to remain with Apple

1.). Mac OS machine that sit at
2.). X86 system for VMware, windows, docker, Linux etc.

Use the Mac OS machine to connect into the other machine.

 

[ADGrant]

I think you are unfortunately going to be looking at moving away from Mac OS period.

Probably best bet would be two machines if want to remain with Apple

1.). Mac OS machine that sit at
2.). X86 system for VMware, windows, docker, Linux etc.

Use the Mac OS machine to connect into the other machine.

I have no plans to move away from Apple or buy a Windows Machine. My 2020 i9 iMac will meet my needs for at least the next 3-5 years. By then I expect that all the MacOS software I want to run will be ARM native and that the ARM64 Linux/Docker ecosystem will have matured.

Windows I am not so sure about. Maybe Microsoft will get its act together, maybe not.

 

[TechnoLawyer]

I have an Intel Mini with 16GB of RAM and a Dell monitor. Would I miss anything?

Depends how well that Mini is performing for you, what chip it has, etc.

To me, the big Apple Silicon difference is in the laptops. For a laptop to have the type of standby battery life that a tablet does, the instant on that a tablet does, and double the battery life real world compared to what I'm used to, combined with snappy performance is pretty neat.

 

[ADGrant]

Depends how well that Mini is performing for you, what chip it has, etc.

To me, the big Apple Silicon difference is in the laptops. For a laptop to have the type of standby battery life that a tablet does, the instant on that a tablet does, and double the battery life real world compared to what I'm used to, combined with snappy performance is pretty neat.

I mostly agree with you. That said the 2018 Intel Mac minis lack a discrete GPU. They are great if you want an Intel MacOS server though.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Anybody else still waiting on the Apple Silicon product for you?

Yeah - but it's more mixed than that for me, as I've been a dual booting Hackintosh user for many years now.

I think ultimately I might be a good fit for a revised MX Mac Mini or perhaps an M2 MacBook Air that I use docked and around the house -- and then go separate machine with NVIDIA GPU for my gaming/Windows needs.

Ultimately I'm dragging my feet to let ASi continue to develop and get refined (basically for second gen efforts from Apple) and because it bums me out to have to move to two separate machines to accomplish what one has done so well for me.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I have a 2020 27" iMac

The fans only ramp up when I am using all 10 cores, otherwise its nice and quiet.

Thank you for saying this.

It's been frustrating to hear the usual Youtube/podcast sphere just totally trashing even the latest Intel Mac offerings and claiming they are all "hairdryers" and making it seem like they are unusable noisy junk.

One of my least favorite parts of the Apple enthusiast space is how they always immediately deem the new thing "the only way" and everything else "mostly pointless now" -- I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but the general point remains.

 

[pshufd]

Apple user since the 70's...been with OS X/macOS since the Public Beta.

Anybody else still waiting on the Apple Silicon product for you? I think what I am waiting for is the M2, to see where Apple goes with their thermals, screen size on the iMac and expansion, etc.

I wanted to kick the tires so I bought an M1 mini and it's very nice though it has several deficiencies for me. I then picked up a 2021 MacBook Pro 16 - fantastic laptop but I really wanted a 15 inch M1 MacBook Air. But I love using it even though it has far more power than I need. The thing is my daily driver was a 2015 MacBook Pro which is long in the tooth though it's my backup system now.

Apple has a lot of holes in their lineup and I can see waiting for the product that best fits your needs.

M1 is an experiment as far as I'm concerned but it has worked out a lot better than I expected.

 

[TechnoLawyer]

I wanted to kick the tires so I bought an M1 mini and it's very nice though it has several deficiencies for me. I then picked up a 2021 MacBook Pro 16 - fantastic laptop but I really wanted a 15 inch M1 MacBook Air. But I love using it even though it has far more power than I need. The thing is my daily driver was a 2015 MacBook Pro which is long in the tooth though it's my backup system now.

Apple has a lot of holes in their lineup and I can see waiting for the product that best fits your needs.

M1 is an experiment as far as I'm concerned but it has worked out a lot better than I expected.

Apple really should do a high-end business line.

16gb/512gb M2 + the 14in and 16in screens, webcams, speakers, promotion from the MBP + make it as thin and light as possible. Throw in an HDMI port and a USB-A port, if possible. They could charge near to what the pros cost. The type of person (or business) buying a high-end business laptop doesn't really care about the cost and isn't going to bat an eye at an $1800-$1900 machine with these stats.

This is their chance to start eating at the PC market while they have this advantage.

 

[tmoerel]

Throw in an HDMI port and a USB-A port, if possible.

You will never ever see a USB-A port on a macbook ever again!

 

[xxray]

I don’t know that there will be an Apple Silicon product for me anytime soon. I prefer laptops over desktops so that I can bring my work with me as needed. The power of an M1 is more than enough for my needs, but I’m very picky about displays which makes me want to opt for the MacBook Pro for its high contrast 120Hz display. However, I also prefer larger displays, so the model that I’d end up choosing would be nearly $3000 (16“, 1TB, M1 Pro).

I’m at the point where my iPad Pro can do 95% of what I need a computer to do for me (and it has the high contrast 120Hz display), but I’m starting to miss the utility and power of macOS. I still have a 2018 15” MacBook Pro for when I need a Mac, but it’s a frustrating experience to use. Just about anything makes the device hot, when the device gets hot I start getting the butterfly keyboard issues of the keys registering more times than I tapped them, the battery life is bad, the 60Hz screen looks laggy after getting used to 120Hz on my iPad Pro and iPhone Pro, and I’m not a fan of the touch bar.

If I have the discipline to not buy new devices and my use cases don’t change much, I’ll probably stick with my iPad Pro as being my main computer and keep the 2018 MBP around for when I need it for the next 4-5 years, and decide whether to go Apple Silicon Mac from there. If I do go back to Mac, it’ll probably cause me to have to reevaluate my Apple product lineup though. It doesn’t make sense to get another iPad Pro with a Magic Keyboard if I decide to upgrade to a MacBook product then, so I’d probably be switching to an 11” iPad Pro or maybe even a Mini (though LCD 60Hz display gives me hesitation).

 

[ADGrant]

I don’t know that there will be an Apple Silicon product for me anytime soon. I prefer laptops over desktops so that I can bring my work with me as needed. The power of an M1 is more than enough for my needs, but I’m very picky about displays which makes me want to opt for the MacBook Pro for its high contrast 120Hz display. However, I also prefer larger displays, so the model that I’d end up choosing would be nearly $3000 (16“, 1TB, M1 Pro).

I’m at the point where my iPad Pro can do 95% of what I need a computer to do for me (and it has the high contrast 120Hz display), but I’m starting to miss the utility and power of macOS. I still have a 2018 15” MacBook Pro for when I need a Mac, but it’s a frustrating experience to use. Just about anything makes the device hot, when the device gets hot I start getting the butterfly keyboard issues of the keys registering more times than I tapped them, the battery life is bad, the 60Hz screen looks laggy after getting used to 120Hz on my iPad Pro and iPhone Pro, and I’m not a fan of the touch bar.

If I have the discipline to not buy new devices and my use cases don’t change much, I’ll probably stick with my iPad Pro as being my main computer and keep the 2018 MBP around for when I need it for the next 4-5 years, and decide whether to go Apple Silicon Mac from there. If I do go back to Mac, it’ll probably cause me to have to reevaluate my Apple product lineup though. It doesn’t make sense to get another iPad Pro with a Magic Keyboard if I decide to upgrade to a MacBook product then, so I’d probably be switching to an 11” iPad Pro or maybe even a Mini (though LCD 60Hz display gives me hesitation).

I have an 12.9" iPad Pro instead of MacBook too. It is fine for the sort of work I want to do on a small screen away from my desk.

 

[ZipZilla]

I'm kind of surprised that after the M1 had such amazing thermals that it's not scaling in the same fashion. (Chunky Macbooks, no iMac Pro, triple-sized Mac Studio with a huge fan in it.)

It will be interesting to see what the the Mac Pro looks like. How will they achieve 1.5TB of RAM?

 

[TechnoLawyer]

I'm kind of surprised that after the M1 had such amazing thermals that it's not scaling in the same fashion. (Chunky Macbooks, no iMac Pro, triple-sized Mac Studio with a huge fan in it.)

It will be interesting to see what the the Mac Pro looks like. How will they achieve 1.5TB of RAM?

More performance cores and way more graphics cores throwing off heat I guess.

 

[JahBoolean]

The increased battery life (x4 in my case) has been a game changer, everything else is less relevant to me.

 

[JMacHack]

I'm kind of surprised that after the M1 had such amazing thermals that it's not scaling in the same fashion. (Chunky Macbooks, no iMac Pro, triple-sized Mac Studio with a huge fan in it.)

The graphics cores are the likely culprit, and in being fair it’s much better than the competition.

It will be interesting to see what the the Mac Pro looks like. How will they achieve 1.5TB of RAM?

I have a hunch they won’t achieve the 1.5 terabyte. They’ll handwave it by saying unified memory makes it irrelevant.

 

[satcomer]

Games is only reason that Microsoft is profitable today! Microsoft is losing the Server market to Linux and many newer kids use Mac or Linux machines at home from what they used in College! I know on my Mac I use the from LibreOffice in Silicon version! Over the years I been impressed with the software even with Silicon version!


My point Microsoft is not giant it used to be and it wasn't't the Mac that killed it it was smart NAS now taking home sever cake now and rise of Apple eating up the Home, music and art people that make money from their Mac especially during these virus times!

 

[darngooddesign]

I'm kind of surprised that after the M1 had such amazing thermals that it's not scaling in the same fashion. (Chunky Macbooks, no iMac Pro, triple-sized Mac Studio with a huge fan in it.)

It will be interesting to see what the the Mac Pro looks like. How will they achieve 1.5TB of RAM?

The 14/16 MBPs are boxier because both of the M1 laptops were efficiency minded and would heat up and throttle when doing anything demanding; I can make my M1-Pro throttle during renders unless I force the fans to run at full speed; its a tradeoff because I will almost always accept a longer render time in exchange for the fans running and their quiet medium speed. I don't think the lack of an iMac Pro has anything to do with the M1 not scaling; Apple just decided that due to the on-going chip shortage, the sales numbers don't justify diverting those resources from the other, better selling computers or the upcoming MacPro.

 

[Janichsan]

Well, regardless the timing would line up with a tick-tock cycle.

I don't think that cycle applies. Keep in mind that the M1 is already a two-year old core design which it shares with the A14 ("Firestorm" and "Icestorm"). Last year's A15 already has a newer core design ("Avalanche" and "Blizzard").

 

[LonestarOne]

From the rumors I have seen, M2 is only going to be a small revision while M3 is the one thats going to be the huge change. I have an M1 Air now but waiting for M3 to get a desktop.

Wait for M4. The odd-numbered releases are sure to be problematic.

 

[BootLoxes]

Wait for M4. The odd-numbered releases are sure to be problematic.

Nah N3 it is. By then my M1 Air will be around the 5 year mark and ready to be replaced

 

[satcomer]

Yes hang on to that Intel machine. Those x86 tools will never become available. Apple has left the x86 ship. ARM all the way now.

That's because I believe many of these audio developers are what I call fly by night operations and they are waiting for tools to write for at least Universal! IMHO if they have made at least a Universal version of software by now they will NEVER update their software Daws or plugins by now need to be purge from your Mac if there are still only Intel versions! Their excuses of not even buying a base Mac Mini to compile at least Universal is outrageous by now!