Convince me not to buy a Surface Book

[theluggage]

The First: discolored rings on the display.
Second: The IR camera wasn't working at all. After 2 hours of surface support (where they diagnosed a motherboard issue, and requested I mail it to them instead of returning it to the store - despite just buying it 3 hours prior).
Third: GPU failure right at start up. Constant BSODs that wouldn't even let me finish activating it.
Fourth: No issues, but I was too jaded at this point and I eventually returned it.

Sounds like you had a series of lemons. Possibly a store that had a nasty habit of using returned items as replacements - the most likely explanation for this sort of repeat failure of a product with a fairly good reputation.

The tablet mode of the SB is clearly best for creative work - especially with the stylus - probably on a table, rather than a general tablet replacement. If it competes with any iPad then its the 12.9".

One point I note - if you're using it handheld, the bezels are a bit too small to prevent accidentally touching the screen when trying to handle it: this reinforces my suspicion that the drive for "thinnnnaaar bezels" on the iPad is a pernicious bit of form-over-function.

 

[BeSweeet]

Convince you not to buy a Surface Book? To me, the dealbreaker isn't its high price, but rather its extremely-wobbly display. Every display unit I've used at Best Buys and Costco had terrible screen wobble.

 

[shaunp]

Have a look at the XPS 15 too. Thunderbolt 3, SD card, USB 3.0, Kaby Lake CPU, etc, etc. You can also upgrade the RAM and SSD yourself if you need to later, and there's a matte screen option if you like. I have the one with the 4K touch screen and yes, it's a different product to the Surface Book as it can't become a tablet, but it's a very fine laptop. You can also get them as a refurb too and save a lot of cash.

I agree there are a few things that you will miss moving from OS X to windows - messages being the main one. I thought about using WhatsApp as there's mobile and desktop versions, but I just found that I end up just using messages on my phone instead and not on my laptop or desktop.

Why don't you try running Windows on your Mac via bootcamp for a few weeks and see if you can live with it. It won't cost you anything.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

Sounds like you had a series of lemons. Possibly a store that had a nasty habit of using returned items as replacements - the most likely explanation for this sort of repeat failure of a product with a fairly good reputation.

The tablet mode of the SB is clearly best for creative work - especially with the stylus - probably on a table, rather than a general tablet replacement. If it competes with any iPad then its the 12.9".

One point I note - if you're using it handheld, the bezels are a bit too small to prevent accidentally touching the screen when trying to handle it: this reinforces my suspicion that the drive for "thinnnnaaar bezels" on the iPad is a pernicious bit of form-over-function.

People have been worrying about touching thin bezels ever since the first iPad mini in 2012. It's hasn't been an issue at all (for me personally at least), since iPads have excellent palm rejection.

 

[Queen6]

On the release of the 2016 MBP I also switched to Microsoft's Surface Book as the new MacBook Pro does not meet my professional needs. To date I have little to no complaint, with Surface Book and Windows 10 proving to be super stable, putting my Mac`s to shame. I am also finding new and more productive ways to use the Surface Book as a work tool, more importantly I very much enjoy the experience and flexibility Microsoft's notebook offers.

As some others have stated Surface Book is the kind of device I once imagined Apple would have produced. Personally I am not sure where Apple is going with the Mac, I do know that I don't care for it very much, and after over 2 decades moving away. Once I would have unreservedly recommend the Mac, not so much today as they offer little unless your deeply entrenched in Apple's ecosystem or have a specific need. Certainly set on picking up Surface Book 2 later this year, and possibly a Surface Pro 5.

Any specific questions on the Surface Book welcome.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

Have a look at the XPS 15

I'm considering the XPS 15, only from the perspective of getting a larger display.

I agree there are a few things that you will miss moving from OS X to windows - messages being the main one.

Agreed, I still enjoy OS X and find the use of messages on the desktop is a nice to have. Not a deal break but something that makes life a little easier.

Overall, I find the quality to be top notch, and Windows 10 to be just as stable (if not more so) then OS X. Both platforms offer advantages and disadvantages, I much prefer Windows on file/directory management. I prefer OS X for terminal work, Apple ecosystem, backing up to name a few

 

[theluggage]

Overall, I find the quality to be top notch, and Windows 10 to be just as stable (if not more so) then OS X. , I prefer OS X for terminal work, Apple ecosystem, backing up to name a few

After a week of playing with the Surface book and re-acquainting myself with Windows, I have to agree that OS X has a polish and responsiveness that Windows only matches in its dreams.

However, OS X is not without it's annoyances - its just that we all learn to live with them. For perspective, I find that even using somebody else's Mac can be frustrating if they haven't got things set up the way I'm used to (sorry, but how do people live without "Applications" and "Terminal" in the dock, and default finder settings that are self-evidently wrong ?)

Also, when trying out a new OS it is tempting to jump right in the deep end: I think the second thing I installed was the Windows Linux Subsystem (which says "Work In Progress" in large, friendly letters). Next, I plug my SB with the Windows equivalent of a retina display into two nonretina monitors, set up a 3-display system... then detach the tablet section. The results... lets say they could be more slick and seamless, with less need to go back and tinker displays preferences, but so far it hasn't crashed or become completely unusable without a reboot. More perspective: in my experience, Macs sometimes crash completely on connecting an external display (usually when I'm just about to give a presentation and have 3 powerpoints and a couple of demo websites all cued up).

The big stupid with Windows 10 is that it hasn't quite got rid of the Windows 8 debacle of "New" and "Old" applications: so there's the familiar "Control Panel" and the new "Settings" app, each with a different but overlapping and interconnected series of options. (Pro tip: if you're new to Windows, use Settings, if you're a verteran use Control Panel).

I much prefer Windows on file/directory management.

I remember Finder being one of the stumbling blocks when I first switched from Windows to Mac. Unfortunately, Windows Explorer seems to have got the ribbon treatment.

On the other hand... Windows filenames, directory paths etc. are a pain. My biggest pain so far has been going through my work files and fixing weird characters in file names that OS X and Linux take in their stride but cause chaos in Windows when you come to copy files or back up. I don't create these (I'm pre-conditioned against putting slashes, quotes, angle brackets etc. in file names) but I do have to deal with other people's files.

Then, oh my god drive letters - seriously, CP/M called from 1978 and wants its drive letters back. There's a right way to organise filesystems, and Unix is it.

I prefer OS X for terminal work,

Absolutely, although give it another year and the Windows Linux Subsystem might have that covered. In the mean time there's Cygwin and/or the "bash" shell and selection of unix utilities that comes with Git for Windows.

Apple ecosystem, backing up to name a few

The "new" Windows 10 "File History" backup facility seems to be their answer to Time Machine - although it has nothing like the gloss. Also, its just file versioning/backup so you really have to create a separate system disc image for disaster recovery. That said, treating file history and system disc imaging separately is probably the better strategy in the long term (although Time Machine is super convenient and friendly, the backups do grow like topsy...)

Overall - if you offered me a choice of OS X and Windows on the same hardware, I'd take OS X any day, but if Apple don't offer the hardware you want don't rule out Windows - just allow time to adapt.

I got the Surface for the moment because:

(a) I'm pretty sure that when/if the new Mac desktop lineup materialises, I'll have a hard decision on whether to choose that or build myself a PC Windows/Linux mini-tower. If what emerges is a dumbed-down, 10% thinner, non-upgradeable iMac with an inflated price point, and no "headless" options then I think the Mac will die as a serious computer platform (it may live on as the ultimate Facebook experience) So I want to re-acquaint myself with Windows and the SB is the flagship Windows implementation.

(b) I kinda have a professional interest in the tablet/stylus aspect of the SB so I can justify splurging some money. I think its a keeper as my main mobile "productivity" device. The main question mark is over my web development work (which is a real strong point for OS X) but there are good arguments for doing that in a Linux VM.

TLDNR: I would never switch to Windows for the sake of Windows, but if Apple doesn't offer the hardware you want, its a very viable option.

 

[ZapNZs]

It seems very possible that the entry level NTB 13-inch is going to see a price decrease, which could be sizable. Apple is killing off their budget laptop that had a huge following and many of these owners don't have a clear upgrade path - a more competitively priced nTB may be Apple's response in a world where there is a wide selection of outstanding quality computers for competitive prices.

As for the SurfaceBook, I can't talk you out of it. I've used it quite a lot, and like it. I have a SP3 and like it very much. Microsoft hardware is now competitive with Apple, and the SP3 won me over the iPad Pro because, unlike the iPad Pro, the SP3 does what Tim Cook claimed the iPad Pro could do. Windows 10 is excellent - I still don't think it has quite the user experience of OS X, nor quite the overall stability or self-sufficiency, but it's come a very long way from the Vista days, and Microsoft seems very committed to constantly refining and pushing 10 to new limits (something they haven't always done with prior versions of Windows and that is partly what drove me to Mac.)

There will be tradeoffs with any selection, but the bottom line is that I think both the MacBook Pro and SurfaceBook are great computers, and with so many Makers now offering good machines (OS X, Windows, and ChromeOS), there's no reason to limit oneself to a single brand if they are not happy with the offerings/options/pricing/etc.

 

[maflynn]

On the other hand... Windows filenames, directory paths etc. are a pain. My biggest pain so far has been going through my work files and fixing weird characters in file names that OS X and Linux take in their stride but cause chaos in Windows when you come to copy files or back up. I don't create these (I'm pre-conditioned against putting slashes, quotes, angle brackets etc. in file names) but I do have to deal with other people's files.

I prefer how Windows handles files/directories and so for me, using the file explorer is so much better then the Finder. I never use any special or odd characters for my work so its only a rare occasion does that cause a problem. I find that I'm much more efficient with a file explorer window open and a cmd window and I bounce between the two. Cutting and pasting between them.

 

[RUGGLES99]

As opposed to the surface book, the surface pro 4 is a better situation. lighter, fast, 2-1 etc etc. it has all of the sb features but far less expensive. i just got the sp4 m3 and it is fantastic. i also picked up the s3 that is far superior to the ipad.

 

[theluggage]

Sounds like you had a series of lemons. Possibly a store that had a nasty habit of using returned items as replacements - the most likely explanation for this sort of repeat failure of a product with a fairly good reputation.

Well, evidence isn't the plural of anecdote but I'm inclined to eat those words: Month-old Surface Book now thoroughly bricked. Just out of the seller's 30-day no-quibble money back period, too. After I said all those nice things about it.

Wasn't shutting down properly - froze when the tablet was ejected.
Tried a system restore - hangs at 80%.

That'll teach me...

Googling after the fact suggests shutdown/sleep problems are rather common.

Edit: the store accepted the return with no quibble, anyway, including the dock... (plus their tech support line was actually answered in reasonable time by a sentient being) so kudos to John Lewis.

Still - it was a learning experience - I now know I could live with Windows if I had to (but I'd rather not) and that the Surface Book is a beautiful concept - but has too much to go wrong. Now, if only Apple would sell me a nice, straightforward laptop with a sensible balance between power, portability and connectivity.

Why should or shouldn't I switch?

See above.

 

[Queen6]

Well, evidence isn't the plural of anecdote but I'm inclined to eat those words: Month-old Surface Book now thoroughly bricked. Just out of the seller's 30-day no-quibble money back period, too. After I said all those nice things about it.

Wasn't shutting down properly - froze when the tablet was ejected.
Tried a system restore - hangs at 80%.

That'll teach me...

Googling after the fact suggests shutdown/sleep problems are rather common.

Edit: the store accepted the return with no quibble, anyway, including the dock... (plus their tech support line was actually answered in reasonable time by a sentient being) so kudos to John Lewis.

Still - it was a learning experience - I now know I could live with Windows if I had to (but I'd rather not) and that the Surface Book is a beautiful concept - but has too much to go wrong. Now, if only Apple would sell me a nice, straightforward laptop with a sensible balance between power, portability and connectivity.



See above.

Over six months in with Surface Book, no issues. Same as any mass produced product issues can and do arise, same as all. I can empathise with your unhappiness, an aspect of a premium purchase is the expectation of less issue, not more. Good to see you were refunded without any issue.

Q-6

 

[theluggage]

Over six months in with Surface Book, no issues. Same as any mass produced product issues can and do arise, same as all.

Oh, I accept it was quite possible that a replacement unit would have been perfect, and if the refund hadn't been offered so freely then I might have persisted. However googling showed lots of people having similar shutdown/sleep issues - I think it may be an issue with the connection between the tablet unit and the base.

Another annoyance was that it really couldn't cope with its primary task of shuttling between my 1440p 27" display at work and my pair of 24" 1200p displays at home, combined with the internal 3000x2000 display. First impressions: great, the dock at home had 2xMiniDP connections, the laptop itself had a MiniDP that plugged into my work display, and everything worked first time. You set the internal 3000x2000 display to 200% magnification, and the lower res external displays to 100% and windows magically adjust themselves as you drag them between displays. Perfect! Even coped with real torture tests like undocking the screen with multiple external displays connected...

...except, time passes, some application decides its not going to play ball and appears with either microscopic text or huge text, the desktop icons turn up on a random screen at a random magnification, a window opens on a display that isn't currently connected, the laptop display opens in low-res mode, the second external display doesn't appear until you switch it off&on... all fixable with some tweaking & signing in/out of Windows, but a real time-waster.

Then, as I've said, Windows is a perfectly capable OS that will do anything you need as well as opening up new possibilities, but, going back to it for a spell after using Mac for 5-6 years renewed my appreciation for the polish, attention to detail and responsiveness of MacOS. I just hope the current management at Apple realise what they've got and don't muck it up. Oh, and offer a better choice of Mac hardware... hardware-wise the Surface worked nicely with all my existing peripherals, no dongles needed (the dock only being needed as a "luxury" for one-cable hookup for home).