Convince me to get a Mac over a PC for Uni

[Nicholas Mosher]

I would also follow the suggestion to list the software you plan to use.
I own both PCs and Macs, and both have their own benefits and faults.

I feel that OS-X is a superior operating system. Not only the interface, but the stability as well.

Hardware on both types of machines are equally prone to failure, and both demand purchasing a warranty if you don't feel like eating large costs for core laptop parts. Having said that, claims through Apple Care are MUCH nicer to go through than fighting with Gateway, Dell, Sony, etc. Depending on your location, you also might have an Apple Store nearby where you can drop-off/pick-up items (faster than waiting for the UPS guy).

As an engineering student, I also recognize the need for Windows and AutoCAD. However, this is pretty much the only reason I ever use a PC.

Microsoft Office, Mathematica, Vectorworks (CAD), Photoshop, Cinema 4D (3D Modeling/Animation), and Internet/eMail on my Mac is where I like to be.

But if you tend to be in 3D Studio Max and AutoCAD all the time, the obvious choice is a PC.

 

[LERsince1991]

I just find this comment about spending more on the mac purely because its apple stupid (sorry) - spend the same on the windows system as you would have spent on the mac and it will be substantially better speced in relation to the mac for autocad/3ds max and possibly overall.

Its not the fact that I would pay more because its apple, Its the fact I'd pay more because I know apple has a very good customer service, and they supply premium products which also have a premium cost. Its a number of reasons why i would pay more for apple.

Thanks for the explanation of a workstation, basically its just a powerful laptop that uses hardware that could prove better for business's.

I have emailed some uni's that I might choose from, asking about what programs they would mainly be using in the course along with some other questions i would like to know. I'll make a list of software when I get some reply's

 

[LeviG]

Its not the fact that I would pay more because its apple, Its the fact I'd pay more because I know apple has a very good customer service, and they supply premium products which also have a premium cost. Its a number of reasons why i would pay more for apple.

I take it you haven't seen some of the posts in teh macbook section regarding build quality etc on the latest 'premium' products. Also dells support for the workstation machines (the ones I keep suggesting) has a good support as its a 'business' class product, although I've never had issue with a dell laptop in my experience - the desktops on the other hand

Thanks for the explanation of a workstation, basically its just a powerful laptop that uses hardware that could prove better for business's.

not really businesses but anyone who uses workstation class apps (ie cad software)

I have emailed some uni's that I might choose from, asking about what programs they would mainly be using in the course along with some other questions i would like to know. I'll make a list of software when I get some reply's

This might have been the best thing to have done at the very beginning

 

[Eidorian]

I'm quite fond of Dell's next business day on-site repairs on my Latitude on Precision laptops.

 

[Earendil]

It all depends on your work (He says, making it the zillionth time in the thread).

My story:
I'm a Senior in Computer Science. I say this not as a qualifier, because I tell computers about algorithms, not fix printers, and some people get those two mixed up
I am not however an artist.

That said:

Most of my course work is Windows XP/Vista based in a program called Visual Studio. When programming in this environment I am working with a single program, and when doing so, I don't notice what OS I'm using. In fact, as long as it doesn't crash, I could care less what OS I'm using.

However, I took an "Internet Apps" course a few years ago that was a sort of crash course in getting dynamic content online, so we were learning HTML, Flash, ASP.NET, working with images in Adobe, and testing our stuff on multiple web browsers. I found that doing this I had 5-8 applications open at once. In this environment, I felt extremely claustrophobic working in Windows (XP). In OSX I never have less than 5 applications open, and 7 is more the average, and I can work in them, switch between them, and not get bogged down by "clutter" or the OS.

So, it depends on what you intend to do with it. I find that in XP (which I work with a lot) I tend to "notice" the OS, where in OSX the operating system stays out of my way and doesn't distract me, and lets me work.

Others here have mentioned many other pros and cons, but I'll mention another one. Despite some people thinking Apple's quality has gone down (I think it hasn't, but w/e), what is often over looked as Apple's Costumer Service, which routinely earns very high marks. So, even if you DO have a problem, Apple is on top of it and generally really good and quick about it. Sure there are stories, but I've heard more horror stories (from friends, not online whiners) about Dell than I care to count.
In my immediate family we have owned 13 Apple computers over the years, with one lemon, and among everyone I know with a Mac (I'd say 25+ people) I haven't heard of any problems. That isn't hard proof, just an anecdote for you to digest at will.

Also as a matter of opinion, if all hardware were exactly the same, and it was a only choice between buying a laptop with Windows or OSX, I would pay $500 more for OSX, hands down. Just my opinion

Cheers,
~Earendil , who has chosen a field where he will likely be working with windows based machines for the rest of his life.

 

[Earendil]

Side note, if you get a laptop, make sure it's a friggin laptop.
Many kids at uni have 6 lbs laptops that are "powerful", but the reality is that those laptops always stay on the desk, they don't take them to class, coffee shops, or sit outside on a bench. They sit in their rooms, next to people who bought real towers (for probably less) that are more powerful.

Desktop class laptops are just cheaper monitors, more expensive, more likely to break, and give you the illusion of portability.
Either get yourself a nice powerful *small* laptop (like Apple's, or a few others), or get yourself a desktop.

I know there are cases for getting giant laptops, but thinking you need ultimate power and frequent portability is... I don't know. Just think about it before you go one route or the other. The coffee shop I'm in right now has a bunch of 13" and 15" laptops between 1" and 1.5" thick. There are no monster laptops in there.

Oh yeah, and for the record, my laptop is coming up on 5 years old this November, and has seen many parts of the world including backpacking in Costa Rica and Whales/Ireland. She has quirks by now, but she is still solid.

 

[motoxpress]

I use my MBP for design. The most important reasons for me are:

• OS X: It is a very stable OS with a very accessible UI
• Platform flexibility: I can run any OS I need to and run/test the software I need to.
• Portability: The MBP is the most powerful laptop in it's size/weight category.
• Compatibility: Most Graphic Design and Photography programs use Macs. Architecture may be more like 50/50/


-mx

 

[Kwill]

Actually I might just do pros and cons with a mac

Pros:
Mac runs OS X and Windows

Cons:
Mac runs Windows

 

[wongulous]

- Superior operating system, stability, security, usability, troubleshooting, speed
- Appearance, style, durability, minimalist design cues, build quality/strength
- Quality of software to do 95% of what I do for (a) classes, (b) geeky stuff, (c) personal life, and (d) side business... almost every piece of software aside huge suites is better on the Mac... and sometimes that even includes huge suites, like Microsoft Office has always been better. Adobe is the same, but the suite of little apps you might use along with graphic, web, print, or video design will definitely be better. Examples might be Coda (Panic), Delicious Library, Omni stuff, Acquisition, Adium, Colloquy, Camino, RapidWeaver, CSSEdit, iBank, etc. There is just nothing like them on Windows.
- And that's not including all of the Apple apps.
- Premium product stature, value longevity/resale value, status symbol (hey, let's be honest)
- Pretty standard, or at least a much bigger marketshare than in the regular population, to have a Mac in my niche of the design industry... but I opened a CAD thing once and totally lost interest, so my interests don't completely line up with yours.
- Intercompatibility/problem-free nature, awesome support, Apple Stores, Genius Bars, ProCare option (and the one-on-one sessions)... make me feel a lot more safe/supported than anything Dell, Sony, Gateway, HP, etc offer, and obviously more than I'd get building my own box.

Just go for it. If in a year you are delving more into something like architecture only, and of the handful of CAD apps, you just *have* to have the one that isn't for Mac, after a few months of using the labs at school, or maybe using BootCamp/Parallels, you'll have another opportunity with student loans to go buy a dedicated PC to use for that purpose, or advanced 3d modeling. But trust me, you won't want to go back to only using a Windows PC. Specialization makes sense in this application.

 

[LeviG]

- Intercompatibility/problem-free nature, awesome support, Apple Stores, Genius Bars, ProCare option (and the one-on-one sessions)... make me feel a lot more safe/supported than anything Dell, Sony, Gateway, HP, etc offer, and obviously more than I'd get building my own box.

I take it os-x runs autocad well then

Just go for it. If in a year you are delving more into something like architecture only, and of the handful of CAD apps, you just *have* to have the one that isn't for Mac, after a few months of using the labs at school, or maybe using BootCamp/Parallels, you'll have another opportunity with student loans to go buy a dedicated PC to use for that purpose, or advanced 3d modeling. But trust me, you won't want to go back to only using a Windows PC. Specialization makes sense in this application.

what is the point in buying 2 systems when one is more than enough for the course? The UK's debt from uni courses is big enough as is (trust me I've still got a load left myself!!)

 

[motoxpress]

Autocad runs great on a MBP...in Bootcamp However, it would probably run well under something like Paralells or VMware.

The advantage of the mac is you have more options.

-mx

 

[LeviG]

Autocad runs great on a MBP...in Bootcamp However, it would probably run well under something like Paralells or VMware.

maybe but I would still get a windows pc if the focus is on architecture programs like the op's intended course.

The advantage of the mac is you have more options.

depends on the perspective - hardware has only 1 option (well you know what I mean) with windows you can get dedicated hardware such as quadro and firegl graphics.

I'd also argue that a windows system has more options too when it comes to software, the current market for 'standardised' cad is based around windows, autodesk don't even support bootcamp within their software so if it works great but there isn't any certainty to that, just look at 3ds max (this is also an architecture favourite software) and its issues.

Show me software that is a 'standardised' program that is only on mac. I can only think of finalcut and at the end of the day theirs plenty of other options (some cheaper too) which can do the same as that.

You shouldn't just buy a system due to the 'looks' of the case and the os, especially if you have to run it in bootcamp or virtualisation (I would never recommend this for cad software)

 

[motoxpress]

If the man is going for architecture exclusively then for certain, he should just go for a stand PC. However, he mentioned sticking toes in many areas. In design, it's a mac world and will be for sometime. In photography, it's a toss up although even there there are more Macs than PCs in the pro world.

Besides, it seems the pc world has decided that all of their laptops need to look like a brick painted over in red and gray. No one wants to look at that all day

-mx

 

[LeviG]

Besides, it seems the pc world has decided that all of their laptops need to look like a brick painted over in red and gray. No one wants to look at that all day

Not everyone wants to look at their reflection either but glossy screens are still selling rather well
Actually grey isn't too bad, not sure where the red came from as that wouldn't have been my choice (neither would have been glossy screens).

 

[motoxpress]

Not everyone wants to look at their reflection either but glossy screens are still selling rather well
Actually grey isn't too bad, not sure where the red came from as that wouldn't have been my choice (neither would have been glossy screens).

The red comes from the "high-end" notebooks from Dell and Toshiba have this terrible red color scheme and ugly, blocky chassis. As far as glossy goes, most of the PC notebooks are also glossy now.

-mx

 

[Eidorian]

The red comes from the "high-end" notebooks from Dell and Toshiba have this terrible red color scheme and ugly, blocky chassis.

Product RED much?

As far as glossy goes, most of the PC notebooks are also glossy now.

-mx

Dell is pretty good when it comes to matte displays. Failing that just order from the Small Business site. I've seen plenty of students sporting Vostros and Latitudes. I've noticed that freshman come in with Dell's and leave with Apple's.

 

[motoxpress]

Product RED much?

At least Apple can manage it tastefully and for a purpose

Dell is pretty good when it comes to matte displays. Failing that just order from the Small Business site. I've seen plenty of students sporting Vostros and Latitudes. I've noticed that freshman come in with Dell's and leave with Apple's.

The point is, nobody in the PC world seem to have the same sense of design that Apple has mastered. Good design means more than being pretty but also functional - form follows function - but, one should not destroy the other.

-mx

 

[wongulous]

I guess LeviG doesn't appreciate choosing a Mac by his constant retorts. I love how someone can even make a factual statement or personal claim and the response can be, "Well, maybe..."

 

[Eidorian]

The point is, nobody in the PC world seem to have the same sense of design that Apple has mastered. Good design means more than being pretty but also functional - form follows function - but, one should not destroy the other.

-mx

What does that have to do with matte or glossy display options?

 

[motoxpress]

What does that have to do with matte or glossy display options?

Sigh...nothing. Absolutely nothing.

-mx

 

[exabytes18]

From my experience, people serious about engineering (at least the staples) typically go with a PC loaded with a workstation graphics card. Logically, that could be extended to architecture as it typically requires similar software. I know NVidia offers optimized drivers for a bunch of software on their workstation cards. They advertise gains by as much as 10 times I believe.

If you did foresee yourself using CAD / 3Dmax or whatever rather extensively, I'd seriously consider getting something with a workstation card.

 

[LeviG]

I guess LeviG doesn't appreciate choosing a Mac by his constant retorts. I love how someone can even make a factual statement or personal claim and the response can be, "Well, maybe..."

Part of what I'm doing is playing devils advocate as I said earlier but I also have experience (I work with it for a living) and know people who do architecture or have done the course and as such know of the software that the op is likely to end up using.

My experience is simple, not one person was using a mac for the cad aspect of the field and as I've said if all the op is intending to do is graphic type work then the mac is fine but if there is a focus on autocad/3ds max (which there appears to be) then quite simply put the op would be better getting a workstation class laptop from dell for example.

Autocad/3ds max are windows only and there are reports of issues when running 3ds max (and possibly autocad) in bootcamp, virtualisation of 3ds max is a no go for any serious work and any graphics programs are available in windows too with the only real difference being the key which you press with letter for a short cut so easy transition if they want at a later date.

As has been stated vista is stable when it hasn't been tampered with by an idiot and you can't see the os most of the time when using the programs. Flicking between bootcamp and os-x is inefficient compared with using an all windows os base and theres some benchmarks in the forum showing very little performance difference between adobe software running on os-x and windows too.

Recommending a mac purely because this is a mac forum is sometimes a false economy, because as much as people like to praise the mac/os-x there are just some areas where windows is the better option.

 

[motoxpress]

As I said, the OP has indicated only partial commitment to CAD. If he is going fully into it then getting a brick is the right direction. Otherwise, it is not entirely obvious and his question in this forum is still valid.

-mx

 

[LeviG]

but I think AutoCAD along with other architecture and product design programs are the deciding factors. I think it would be awesome if AutoCAD and 3DS Max supported OS X but its not going to happen so i'll look at windows laptops.

you clearly missed this post where he saying that autocad and architecture (autocad, 3ds max, revit maybe) /product design (solidworks, 3ds max, alias, solidedge, autocad, rhino - this is my background) software (note all except maya are windows only) are deciding factors.

And wasn't the macbook pro manufactured under the 'brick' codename so by your reference is no better than a windows pc

And I never said his question wasn't valid, I was just saying that a mac may not be the best option.

 

[pit29]

Macs are sexyer -> Girls love that!