MP 1,1-5,1 Cooler Northbridge on The Mac Pro 5,1 Dual CPU

[MIKX]

Found some from aliexpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/80m...da-4989-a0aa-57710ddc69f3&transAbTest=ae803_3

octoviaa

Thanks for your reply. Every little bit helps.

You've gotta love Alibaba" 30 ~ 50 days delivery "

That first one size-wise looks good but it's 10mm .. . my current fan is 8mm and allows me to angle it slightly downwards to direct some air directly into the NB heatsink.

When I have more free time I'll be looking for ( ideally ) 78 ~ 80 mm, height 8mm brushless and able to do 20~29 CFM. I don't do video or audio editing so a little fan noise is acceptable.

There must be some specialty fan manufacturers out there .. just a matter of asking the right question.

Thanks

PS : My NB has sitting 52 ~ 54°C for the past 5 hours.

PPS : Lower NB temps = less fatigue on now 10 year old plastic heatsink rivets.

[doublepost=1553262498][/doublepost]This Thermaltake model looks good, with some hacking it might do the job - has fan speed control too ! https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Adjustable-External-One-touch-Retractable/dp/B00080G0BK

 

[octoviaa]

I end up using a small fan and using a cardboard to put the fan on top of it.

I've got 63c when watching youtube.

 

[Mac_User 0101]

I end up using a small fan and using a cardboard to put the fan on top of it.

I've got 63c when watching youtube.

I'm so happy I stubbled upon this thread. I was just thinking about this. I also thought about using a fan to cool the Northbridge. Duel X5690 with Northbridge temps averaging 75C and up to 79C when pushed. I never seen it get higher than that but there is room for improvement. My first thought was to find a better heatsink that will fit correctly under the CPU cooler and change my 9 year old thermal paste. Finding a different heatsink is easier said than done unless you can retrofit the temp sensor somehow. I just talked to someone on this forum who said he is getting great temps with liquid metal. I have replacement rivets in case I want to get bold or the stock ones break which I recommend everyone buy. You can get them on eBay.

Octoviaa, where is your fan power connected to? It doesn't look usb so I'm assuming it's on the processor tray. I wanted to do something like this but wasn't sure if it would mess with the SMC.

 

[octoviaa]

I'm so happy I stubbled upon this thread. I was just thinking about this. I also thought about using a fan to cool the Northbridge. Duel X5690 with Northbridge temps averaging 75C and up to 79C when pushed. I never seen it get higher than that but there is room for improvement. My first thought was to find a better heatsink that will fit correctly under the CPU cooler and change my 9 year old thermal paste. Finding a different heatsink is easier said than done unless you can retrofit the temp sensor somehow. I just talked to someone on this forum who said he is getting great temps with liquid metal. I have replacement rivets in case I want to get bold or the stock ones break which I recommend everyone buy. You can get them on eBay.

Octoviaa, where is your fan power connected to? It doesn't look usb so I'm assuming it's on the processor tray. I wanted to do something like this but wasn't sure if it would mess with the SMC.

Hi,

I'm using SATA to PCIe power cable and 'stick' the fan cable (+ and -) to the PCIe socket .

I bought 2 fans and didn't realise one of them is 5V, as the PCIe doesn't connect 5V it only has 12V, hence I didn't use the 5V mini fan as I afraid it will overheat and cause trouble, the 5V one is very thin just .7cm too bad it is 5V while the 12V is 1cm.

 

[Mac_User 0101]

Hi,

I'm using SATA to PCIe power cable and 'stick' the fan cable (+ and -) to the PCIe socket .

I bought 2 fans and didn't realise one of them is 5V, as the PCIe doesn't connect 5V it only has 12V, hence I didn't use the 5V mini fan as I afraid it will overheat and cause trouble, the 5V one is very thin just .7cm too bad it is 5V while the 12V is 1cm.

I wonder if you add the right resistor inline with the positive of the fan to step the voltage down to 5 volts. If you use an online resistor calculator you can find the one you need. Would be nice to find a fan slim enough to fit directly on top of the heatsink.

 

[octoviaa]

I wonder if you add the right resistor inline with the positive of the fan to step the voltage down to 5 volts. If you use an online resistor calculator you can find the one you need. Would be nice to find a fan slim enough to fit directly on top of the heatsink.

Thanks,

I end up series both fan, luckily the 5V fan can still run (albeit slower).

 

[MIKX]

 

[Mac_User 0101]

View attachment 829825

Those are really good temps for Northbridge

 

[startergo]

Those are really good temps for Northbridge

I have the same temps without the extra fan

 

[MIKX]

What fan speeds ?

 

[Mac_User 0101]

I have the same temps without the extra fan

Is yours a duel processor tray or single? Duel processor cMP Northbridge temps average 70 - 75 degrees Celsius under moderate use.

If you are getting 58 degrees Celsius under load without a fan or cranking up your stock fans to noisy levels, what did you do to achieve that?

 

[startergo]

Is yours a duel processor tray or single? Duel processor cMP Northbridge temps average 70 - 75 degrees Celsius under moderate use.

If you are getting 58 degrees Celsius under load without a fan or cranking up your stock fans to noisy levels, what did you do to achieve that?

MFC temperature based fan control (no noise except on boot when they crank up high for 20-30 secs)
My specs are below

 

[MIKX]

Today's test was with a smaller 50mm X 50mm X 15mm fan connected with USB to 3 pin cable.
No idea of this fan's CFM rating as I can't read the label on the fan but with today's test results I'm more than happy until Japan's summer arrives. Then I'm on the lookout for a Brushless 50mm X 50mm X 10mm high CFM - if such a thing exists it will surely yield significantly lower temps in hotter weather.

I cannot imagine what NINE years of 75°C Northbridge temperatures does to nylon spring rivets.

Left at idle for two hours with just iTunes big playlist & Firefox Youtube long movie running .. stayed at 52°C.

 

[MIKX]

Bearing in mind that here in Japan tonight it still feels like winter. My ambient room temp is 16°C / 60.8 °F my 4.1>5,1 cMP's Northbridge has been sitting at 46°C / 114.8°F for the past 4 hours with normal web 7 app usage, not much stress.

This has been attained with a mini 50mm x 50mm x 15mm USB powered fan + Mac Fan Control + reasonable fan speeds. The sensible combination of these three WILL dramatically lower Northbridge temps.

The fan I'm using now OK for winter / Autumn and is one I've had laying around for about 10 years and puts out about 4.3 CFM.

My aim is to get consistent, lower ( say . . around 50~ 55°C / 122°F ~ 131°F ) NB temps & near fan silence in the height of Japan's summer.
================================================

I just found this 12VDC 50mm x 50mm x 10mm brushless "Vapo-Bearing" = ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_bearing ) = should be virtually silent) fan with a two wire socket at Digikey for ¥500.

NOTE : The 10mm fan thickness is a real bonus as it will allow the fan to be angled to more concisely direct airflow to both the NB chip and NB heatsink.

https://www.digikey.jp/product-detail/en/sunon-fans/MB50101V2-000U-A99/259-1548-ND/2757786

It is rated at 11.0 CFM. !

I will order two of these & after creating a USB cable will report cooling results .

This fan would appear to be ideal for extra cooling of the cMP 4,1 / 5,1 Northbridge chip & NB heatsink.

==================================

EDIT : April 5th 2019 : Getting warmer every day here in Japan. My average NB temp this week = 52°C. under normal, not so stressful day/night use.
I've ordered the Sunon fan( 2 of them ) - they should arrive late next week.
They only cost about ¥500 each but shipping is a whopping ¥2,980 ! US$26 ! Still. if they do the job, well worth it.

I have learned so much regarding cooling the dual CPU tray area since I started this project. I'm ( just for the learning experience ) looking at making a whole new ( copper ) Northbridge heatsink with a high CFM low db fan - it can be done !
( IMHO Apple should have gone for a copper heatsink in the first place. )

The most important component is the sensor cable. I have access to several hi-tech CNC machines and I have a spare dual CPU tray to experiment with.

More on that in the future.

 

[MIKX]

EDIT : The Northbridge is now at an average 45°C /113°F ( NB heatsink a 38°C / 100.4°F
=======================================================
My two Sunon 50mm x 10 mm Maglev bearing fans arrived today.
I connected one to my USB cable which is then connected to an unused port on an external USB HUB. This fan is virtually silent.

Link to the Sunon fan : https://www.digikey.jp/product-detail/en/sunon-fans/MB50101V2-000U-A99/259-1548-ND/2757786

Positioning :
At the moment still in testing phase; just propped it as shown below - there is no vibration noise at all. but I'm considering attaching two plastic triangular air guides = one each side and one rectangular guide to push more air down to the NB heatsink in my next test - these 3 guides will be a single rigid unit which could also be rigged as a "fan positioning arm".

Temperature comparisons :

Until today I had a 60mm x 60 x 10mm fan which is at the very least 10 ~ 15 years old. CFM unknown running off a USB cable. It did significantly reduce NB chip temps to an average of 56°C / 132.8°F= good but not good enough.

As I write this report the NB chip is at 45°C / 113°F. with the new Sunon smaller fan.

This is a 25°C reduction from the 70°C which is approved by Apple.
This fan mod apart from dramatically reducing the Northbridge chip temps, contributes to an overall cooler CPU tray area and noticeably lower temps throughout this space.
I cannot stress enough the need for a good " heat dissipation space "BEHIND the cMP​

I think these results speak for themselves.

This mod may prolong the life of originally installed rivets.

=============================================
On my spare ( for testing ) DUAL CPU tray i replaced the old rivets with M3 nuts & bolts + ballpoint pen spring cut to about 1/2 of the original rivet spring length..

Nut & Bolt Norhbridge technique ( of course, clean and reapply thermal paste. )

From the Northbridge heatsink top . .

1. M3 bolt ( from memory length 20mm ).
2. 1/2 of a ballpoint pen spring.
Northbridge heatsink top

Northbridge heatsink bottom
3. Non-conductive M3 washer
4. M3 Metal washer
5. M3 nut
6. Me nut = to lock the upper M3 nut at about the same tension that the spring
of a plastic rivet would normally be set at.
( gently pull one of the OK rivets to get a 'feel' for getting similar "rivet spring tension".

==================================================

Here in Japan Summer is approaching with up to 40°C / 104°C pus high humidity which I feel 90% certain contributed to the failure ( now working with one CPU ) of my original Dual CPU tray.

Seeing that my refurbished tray has new NB chip thermal paste & rivets installed, I'll let them be for the time being.

There have been a multitude of threads regarding probable broken Northbridge rivets.
I hope that this USB fan mod is helpful.

 

[Mac_User 0101]

=============================================
On my spare ( for testing ) DUAL CPU tray i replaced the old rivets with M3 nuts & bolts _ ballpoint pen spring cut to about original river spring length..

Nut & Bolt Norhbridge technique ( of course, clean and reapply thermal paste. )

From the Northbridge heatsink top . .

1. M3 bolt ( from memory length 20mm ).
2. 1/2 of a ballpoint pen spring.
Northbridge heatsink top

Northbridge heatsink bottom
3. Non-conductive M3 washer
4. M3 Metal washer
5. M3 nut
6. Me nut = to lock the upper M3 nut at about the same tension that the spring
of a plastic rivet would normally be set at.
( gently pull one of the OK rivets to get a 'feel' for getting similar "rivet spring tension".

==================================================

Here in Japan Summer is approaching with up to 40°C / 104°C pus high humidity which I feel 90% certain contributed to the failure ( now working with one CPU ) of my original Dual CPU tray.

Seeing that my refurbished tray has new NB chip thermal paste & rivets installed, I'll let them be for the time being.

There have been a multitude of threads regarding probable broken Northbridge rivets.
I hope that this USB fan mod is helpful.

What kind of temps are you getting in your spare system after cleaning the NB heatsink and applying a high quality thermal paste? I'm curious to see what that alone can do without a fan.

 

[MIKX]

60 ~ 70C° Spring here .. .summer looming.

 

[octoviaa]

EDIT : The Northbridge is now at an average 45°C /113°F ( NB heatsink a 38°C / 100.4°F
=======================================================
My two Sunon 50mm x 10 mm Maglev bearing fans arrived today.
I connected one to my USB cable which is then connected to an unused port on an external USB HUB. This fan is virtually silent.

View attachment 831002 View attachment 831003


Link to the Sunon fan : https://www.digikey.jp/product-detail/en/sunon-fans/MB50101V2-000U-A99/259-1548-ND/2757786

Positioning :
At the moment still in testing phase; just propped it as shown below - there is no vibration noise at all. but I'm considering attaching two plastic triangular air guides = one each side and one rectangular guide to push more air down to the NB heatsink in my next test - these 3 guides will be a single rigid unit which could also be rigged as a "fan positioning arm".

View attachment 831004

Temperature comparisons :

Until today I had a 60mm x 60 x 10mm fan which is at the very least 10 ~ 15 years old. CFM unknown running off a USB cable. It did significantly reduce NB chip temps to an average of 56°C / 132.8°F= good but not good enough.

As I write this report the NB chip is at 45°C / 113°F. with the new Sunon smaller fan.

This is a 25°C reduction from the 70°C which is approved by Apple.
This fan mod apart from dramatically reducing the Northbridge chip temps, contributes to an overall cooler CPU tray area and noticeably lower temps throughout this space.
I cannot stress enough the need for a good " heat dissipation space "BEHIND the cMP​

I think these results speak for themselves.
View attachment 831005
This mod may prolong the life of originally installed rivets.

=============================================
On my spare ( for testing ) DUAL CPU tray i replaced the old rivets with M3 nuts & bolts + ballpoint pen spring cut to about 1/2 of the original rivet spring length..

Nut & Bolt Norhbridge technique ( of course, clean and reapply thermal paste. )

From the Northbridge heatsink top . .

1. M3 bolt ( from memory length 20mm ).
2. 1/2 of a ballpoint pen spring.
Northbridge heatsink top

Northbridge heatsink bottom
3. Non-conductive M3 washer
4. M3 Metal washer
5. M3 nut
6. Me nut = to lock the upper M3 nut at about the same tension that the spring
of a plastic rivet would normally be set at.
( gently pull one of the OK rivets to get a 'feel' for getting similar "rivet spring tension".

==================================================

Here in Japan Summer is approaching with up to 40°C / 104°C pus high humidity which I feel 90% certain contributed to the failure ( now working with one CPU ) of my original Dual CPU tray.

Seeing that my refurbished tray has new NB chip thermal paste & rivets installed, I'll let them be for the time being.

There have been a multitude of threads regarding probable broken Northbridge rivets.
I hope that this USB fan mod is helpful.

Good to know sunon is silent, I'm waiting for 40x40x10mm maglev sunon to arrive from aliexpress, I'll report back once I test it.

BTW, your PSU fan is quite high, yet the PSU temp is only 4C diff than mine (I'm at 40 / 36) and my PSU fan is only 574.

My ambient temp is 33, 8C higher than yours.

With your much higher PSU fan and much lower ambient temp, I would have expect your PSU temp would be much lower than mine.

May be you need to clean the PSU? If I recall correctly H98 once mentioned if PSU temp supply 1 and 2 are the same it could means the PSU is 'dirty'.

 

[MIKX]

I removed, 100% de-dusted & cleaned my PSU in September last year.

. .. but .. I'll check it again this week.

Thanks for the heads up.

NOTE : My Sunons are 11 CFM - that seems to make a big difference = the NB chip's temps are not fluctuating as much as with with the older no-name fan.

With the new 11 CFM Sunon the NB chip's been at 45~46°C for the past 4.5 hours with lots of use.

 

[MIKX]

The Sunon 50mm x 50mm x 10m 11 CFM Maglev fan is great !​

Northbridge chip new low = 43°C​

https://www.digikey.jp/product-detail/en/sunon-fans/MB50101V2-000U-A99/259-1548-ND/2757786

Tonight, ( early Spring ihere n Japan ) from 5:30 pm ~ 10:40 pm. with the USB connected Sunon rup and running only a 1°C variation ; average of 43 ~ 45°C ( 111.2 ~ 113°F ) Ambient room temp 21°C / 69.8°F with lots of apps + Youtube 1080 vids + iTunes. general stuff running etc.

The most noticeable thing is the smaller variation in temperature up/down swings - just 1°C +/- as far as I can discern. the Sunon is silent too.

I have been thinking about my OVERALL 2009 4,1>5,1 CASE TEMPS.
There are so many bits making heat; PSU + spinner HDDs + PCIe units + GPU + M.2 SSD + TWO CPUs .. . PLUS .. the Northbridge Chip & more.. and despite the standard cMP fans I find that there can still be a lot of heat generated - at least there WAS before I gave it critical attention.
My first step was to give my cMP more space to breathe.
Next, I removed all but one spinner HDD which now lives where my DVD drive used to live. That not only reduced the SATA drives area heat but also allowed more airflow to the PCIe slots.
Then I removed and thoroughly de-dusted and cleaned the PSU.
I also de-dusted ALL the case fans.
I'm adamant that 70°C / 158°F is just TOO hot and I know what the Northbridge chip is rated for but at those temps the heatsink seems to be an afterthought by Apple - they could at least have opted for a COPPER heatsink and a small dedicated NB heatsink fan.

I'll be looking at reducing both or one of my DUAL CPUs ; probably CPU A as my first attempt.

I advise all those who love their cMPs to put a hand behind it and get a real feeling for how much heat is being pumped out.

I use the "Nut & Bolt" technique ( in post #40 in this thread ) instead of rivets as at my current NB chip temps the NB heatsink's expansion is. I assume greatly reduced.

Rave finished and a big "Thank You" to drolson for starting this thread.

 

[joot]

^^ MIKX, how did you connect the fan to power it from the motherboard?

 

[MIKX]

I didn't. Look at my #23 post in this thread. It is connected to a USB cable which is run through a spare Mac Pro side cover ( I cut a 5mm slot in the side cover ) and then connects to a powered external 7 port USB HUB.

 

[joot]

^^ The fan I'm looking at has a 2 pin/connector wire. How did you connect these two wires to the USB cable?
[doublepost=1554828765][/doublepost]My Northbridge Tdiode is currently at 169 degrees Fahrenheit, very warm and toasty...

 

[eksu]

If I'm using the two USB data pins from the bluetooth header for a PCI-E Wifi/Bluetooth combo card/adapter (handoff), I suppose that means I have two spare power pins that could be used for a small fan for the northbridge. Any thoughts?

Is the magnetic bearing expected to have a good lifespan in the mostly vertical 75 degree or so angle?

 

[Quicksilver867]

I have an adapter changing SATA power (2nd SuperDrive) to 3-pin fan connectors.