Core 2 Duo or wait for Sandy Bridge 11 Inch Air?

[Ridley]

Yep only in "testing."

YOu really have to qualify these sunny projections. They show up in benchmarks and tests, but not in day to day use so much.

Exactly. No one knows when the next model is coming. Stop treating it as a given is all I said. And stop pretending like SB cpus will make your machine 50% faster across the board.

What does that even mean? I would think that tests and benchmarks would be how to measure? No? It is not a "sunny projection" it is an actual design by Intel and test, measure, interpret, confirmation by Intel and independent third parties that one chip is x% faster clock-for-clock than another. That said, if people think that when a chip is measured to be say 44% faster, that literally everything done on the computer is 44% faster (day to day use as you say)... well, no one thinks that. Its not like i open word 44% faster and open web pages 44% faster ("across the board" as you say). That's not how computers work. Again i think most people know that though and its even called out in the benchmarks the conditions for which the performance measure applies.

Also you say no one knows when the next model is coming out? Are you serious!? The name of this website is "MacRumors"... please believe that there are people at Apple, manufacturers, and suppliers that know when the next model is coming. These people are supposed to keep the information secret. BUT, sometimes it leaks out, sometimes people pretend it leaks out and it hasn't, in either case it becomes a Rumor.

People talk about a June release date because of the rumors, and also discuss the validity of the rumors. Someone posted the information form this article to this thread. http://www.appleinsider.com/article...n_of_thunderbolt_macbook_airs_next_month.html

Again rumors are not guarantee's! If you can find pseudo credible rumors that the June release isn't happening, please post and people will gladly discuss. If you don't like discussing and speculating about rumors.... well... yeah

 

[KPOM]

With today's rumors, perhaps we need a "Should I wait for the ARM MacBook Air?" thread. j/k.

 

[trip1ex]

What does that even mean? blah blah blah

Also you say no one knows when the next model is coming out? Are you serious!?

blah blah blah

Again rumors are not guarantee's!

blah

It means what it says. IT's obvious that numbers in tests don't reflect real world usage much for most users. Also most folks don't care if something like video encoding gets done in 10 minutes vs 15 minutes if they aren't encoding all the time.

Surfing, word processing, spreadsheets, presentations, light photo work, email etc aren't going to be sped up any.

The brute force power of an 11" MBA will still heavily lag desktops and bigger laptops anyway. I don't think anyone is buying an MBA for power in the first place.

And yes rumors are no guarantees. That's my point. It's a rumor. Don't forget that. Many have truth to them. Many are accurate. Some aren't. You still hear the Apple hdtv rumors and crap like that.

Even MacRumors buying guide doesn't say not buy at this point.

Now as I said I would look for a discount to list price. I guess I do that anyway, but the further you get into a cycle the more I would look for a discount and the bigger discount I would want.

IF you go on Ebay you find used 11" MBAs from reputable sellers in the low $800s. With the 10% back in Ebay bucks you can save another $80ish. No tax. Still have half a warranty left. YOu're looking at $250 cheaper than what new MBAs will priced at in a month.

That's a hedge against new MBAs coming out soon in my book. If they come out great. If you then want a new one, sell your old one and be out a few bucks at worst.

I think when you recommend waiting etc you need to base it on more than just a rumor that new ones might come out in a month. YOu need know the going price of the current ones, what deals are there, what does the user need the machine for and does the person need a machine now.

And say new MBAs come out in June then well you might as well wait until July until LION comes out. But no guarantee there either. Then maybe it turns into August and soon you've waited 3 months to save a few bucks and you've just hit a new wall of rumors that say a new MBPs are coming in another few months.

I hope new MBAs come out. I'm glad I got my new 11" MBA. But I paid less than $800. Hedged myself.

If the new ones come out soon, I'll craiglist my old if I want a new one. If I do lose a few bucks I would expect it to be very little and would chalk that up to a few months usage.

Hence I wouldn't tell anyone to not buy an MBA now. I would tell them to buy now at a great price.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

LOL, you didn't mention heat and fan noise once in your post, just speed, speed and more speed.

With the power and speed you speak of heat and fan noise come with that. Is the MBA capable to manage the heat from the added power? We're not sure. If I had to say one way or the other I'd say no, based on what I've read SB in it's current state would turn the little 11" Air into a frying pan.

Think SB doesn't run a (lot) warmer? Go read in the MBP forum, on the first page there's people posting who wish they'd of kept their C2D MBP's ... because of excess heat and really loud fans. I had a 17" MBP quad core for a short time, the fans roared and it ran much warmer than the C2D 15" MBP's in our offices....

So "tick tock" the reality of it all is I've had my MacBook Air since it's release on October 20th, you still don't have one ... tick tock ... and what guarantee to do have that Apple will introduce a SB Air in July, couldn't it easily be July, August, September, October or even skip it and wait for the revised and cooler running Ivy Bridge .... tick tock ... you're still waiting.

So in reality, Cheffy Dave's point is right on, and by the way ... tick tock he has his MacBook now too ... you don't.

Seriously, these 'wait for SB' and 'Future Proofing' threads crack me up. To begin with Apple is the most unpredictable company on the planet when it comes to product updates, and the rumors and speculation are rarely close.

See it. Like it. Buy it. Enjoy!!

Amen, well put!

 

[Ridley]

I am trying to discuss the topic of this thread about the merits of Sandy Bridge over Core 2 Duo and whether that is worth the wait. With all respect, if you are going to reply to my thread please read it first. Because you asked, and for the purpose of discussion, I'll summarize it

It means what it says. IT's obvious that numbers in tests don't reflect real world usage much for most users. Also most folks don't care if something like video encoding gets done in 10 minutes vs 15 minutes if they aren't encoding all the time.

Surfing, word processing, spreadsheets, presentations, light photo work, email etc aren't going to be sped up any.

Because I already wrote that a speed increase in a particular benchmark ONLY applies to THAT test and DOESN'T apply to everything. Verbatim..

That said, if people think that when a chip is measured to be say 44% faster, that literally everything done on the computer is 44% faster (day to day use as you say)... well, no one thinks that. Its not like i open word 44% faster and open web pages 44% faster ("across the board" as you say). That's not how computers work. Again i think most people know that though and its even called out in the benchmarks the conditions for which the performance measure applies.

Lol, how about whenever anyone wants to release a new processor, we'll just abandon all tests, science, math, and metrics. Instead we'll put the chip inside a computer, give it to trip1ex, and he'll tell us accurately, and definitely how much faster or slower it FEELS to him for the tasks that HE likes to do on a computer. Wouldn't that make a lot more sense for you? haha, for you maybe, but for the rest of the world... We have been using tests as a way to standardize and compare processors for decades. Seeing as how this thread is debating the difference in the chips, I think the benchmarks would be relevant for discussion.

And before you fly off the handle, I'll say this one more time.... a processor benchmark ONLY applies to the conditions of the test used to derive that benchmark. Just because SB is x% faster at rendering a video, doesn't mean its also that much faster at browsing the web, or looking at picture. I actually still use a Merom MBP from 2006 because its plenty fast for what I need to do most of the time so can't warrant a new machine yet. So you don't need to explain to me what everyday / real world computing means.

Even MacRumors buying guide doesn't say not buy at this point.

Ok, so please understand how Buyers guide is calculated. It is solely a function of avg days between upgrades. It does not in any way factor in speculation of rumors, external issues like the ending of relationships with Nvidea, or availability of Core 2 Duos, etc. That said an 8 month release for an Air has happened before, and June releases of laptops in time for back to school occur very often (as you'll see from the buyers guide). The buyers guide formula works well if Apple updates a product with regular frequency, but breaks if it is sporadic or if no historical data exists.

Now as I said I would look for a discount to list price. I guess I do that anyway, but the further you get into a cycle the more I would look for a discount and the bigger discount I would want.

IF you go on Ebay you find used 11" MBAs from reputable sellers in the low $800s. With the 10% back in Ebay bucks you can save another $80ish. No tax. Still have half a warranty left. YOu're looking at $250 cheaper than what new MBAs will priced at in a month.

That's a hedge against new MBAs coming out soon in my book.

Hmm, that is a really interesting theory. And I thank you for providing the facts and figures. Perhaps you can post a new thread to discuss it. Maybe there is a degree of "efficiency" (like stock price) built into these product prices. That said I don't follow how:
big discounts -> means near end of cycle -> current big discounts on ebay -> means not near end of cycle -> means June release not happening ?

Anyway that is kind of besides the point. I'd encourage you to start a new thread with your theory here and explain it a little more. Thanks.

LOL, you didn't mention heat and fan noise once in your post, just speed, speed and more speed.

If I had to say one way or the other I'd say no, based on what I've read SB in it's current state would turn the little 11" Air into a frying pan.

Think SB doesn't run a (lot) warmer? Go read in the MBP forum, on the first page there's people posting who wish they'd of kept their C2D MBP's ...

So in reality, Cheffy Dave's point is right on, and by the way ... tick tock he has his MacBook now too ... you don't.

You do realize that a Sandy Bridge Air would use a completely different processor than the current Sandy Bridge pros right? I don't see how the MBP forums would apply...

Also, wow, that is in no way what a tick-tock cycle means! Please read the post before replying!

 

[Cheffy Dave]

I would LOVE it if Apple just broke down and bought AMD, lock stock and barrel. kept everyone on, designed killer chips/chipsets for itself, designed custom chips for others, and took graphics to the next level
It could even be a separate division, called A(Apple)AMD=AAMD. Apple would own computing, could go their own way, with out being limited to INTEL's Vision.
Lets see Intel play dirty with that monster!

 

[Danindub]

I think that the current Core 2 Duo is a great low powered processor. But, I really don't think that it is worth the price. I don't really think that it will provide the power that my 2.4 ghz Core 2 Duo can provide. But my concern with a core i processor in an air (with no fans) would be it would get very hot. what do you guys think?

May I just say you're wrong. I have both - Pro 2.4 GHz and Air 2.1 Ghz. Interestingly additional cache (6 MB) in the Air brings it's performance very close to 2.4 GHz. In benchmarks it gets a little bit less than CPU of Pro, but scores higher for graphics for some reason (despite both being GeForce 320M).

It is very clear that overall performance benefit of SSD over hard drive makes Air just faster in general.

Also - MacBook Air does have fan. And it becomes very clear if you play games on Air

 

[nebulos]

Ridley and others,

Give it up. No one wants to hear your crazy theories based on 'facts' and 'figures'. Go use your filthy logic and reason elsewhere. The MBA forum is simply not the place for these.

The new MBA will NOT be better than the current MBA. That doesn't make any sense. Apple simply feels the graphics power of the current MBA is too good, which is the only reason they'd go with Sandy Bridge, for the terrible IGP.

It makes no difference, of course, as a new MBA will NEVER be released; You can guess all you want, and while convergent speculation, including from those that have been accurate in the past, can be an excellent predictor, we shouldn't have to remind you that MacRumors.com is simply not the place for discussing rumors about Macs; Please review the forum rules!

In any case, we should ALL agree on what we want from a computer, namely, precisely what is offered currently. If you think you need more CPU, you are just ignorant. If you think that a Sandy Bridge CPU that performs 50%-100% better than the C2D, will perform 50%-100% better when placed in the MBA, ... i mean, i don't even know what to say; I just feel bad for you.

But, okay, let's pretend that an updated MBA would actually be better in some way, why would you possibly wait for it anyways? Clearly, waiting ONE month is obviously equal to waiting FOREVER, so you will never have a computer. Do you want a computer now or never? Your choice, bub.

Remember: Science doesn't prove anything.

 

[MBABuyer]

I didnt get it at first, sorry nebulos, hahaha....I didnt read carefully

 

[BigShoe43]

Nice sarcasm Nebulos I sensed it

 

[IngerMan]

I got it

 

[nebulos]

Interesting that you say that Nebulos, because I hope that you do realize you are 100% incorrect in what you just said.

Listen "MBABuyer", ... if that is your real name,

Everything I said, have said before, and have yet to say in these forums is 100% correct.

... You wanna know why?

Because joining this forum automatically made me an authority on all things Macbook Air, Apple at large, and technology in general for that matter. The instant i post my opinions in one of these threads, the universe is altered instantaneously such that they become fact. if i say one thing, then i say the opposite, THEY ARE BOTH RIGHT. agree with me? YOU ARE STILL WRONG.

when i tell you you are misinformed, stupid, should drown yourself in a recently used toilet, it's not because i think i'm better than you. it's because i am better than you, but since you can't figure that out on your own, i have to spell it out for you; which, let me tell you, gets tiresome fast. i do have better things to do then spend my Saturday nights educating you people!

which reminds me, ugh, i forgot to mention heat. a lot of you are worried about this. i can assure you that this question can be put to rest once and for all. in fact, i had a dream last night:

... i was in the tub. but instead of water, it was liquid metal. i was using one of the many effective available styluses to write a list of reasons that PCs are stupid on my iPad, when i heard a loud crash in my yard, an absurd boom, like a brontosaurus had fallen from the sky.

i ran out, naked, and was enveloped in a deep blue light. all the stars in the sky were now hovering about a slim figure not 20 feet away. my neighbor's cat and dog set about making puppy-kittens.

the figure approached me. i froze. the cat and dog went on.

a few steps closer, ... i could make something out. ... was it? ... yes! it was him! i couldn't believe it, and i had to wipe all the jelly from my eyes to make sure, but indeed, it was him. the glasses, the turtleneck, the "SJ" on his chest, there was no doubt, it was him.

then he spoke:

"NEBULOS."

"... yes?"

"COME CLOSER."

"... yes."

"DO YOU FEAR ME?"

"yes."

"DO YOU REALIZE I CAN DESTROY YOU WITH A SINGLE MULTITOUCH GESTURE?"

"yes."

"GOOD. ... HAVE YOU HEARD THE SPECULATION ABOUT A POTENTIAL SANDY BRIDGE MACBOOK AIR?"

"yes."

"IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD PLEASE YOU?"

"yes."

"DO YOU REALIZE I DON'T CARE, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? THAT YOU MEAN NOTHING TO ME? THAT I HAVE AN ARMY OF IPHONE CONSUMERS THAT WILL EAT YOU ALIVE FOR A $0.99 CREDIT AT THE APP STORE?"

"yes."

"I MEAN, SERIOUSLY, DO YOU THINK FOR A SECOND THAT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE CAN SAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN 'YES' TO ME?"

"... um, ... no?"

"SILENCE!"

"yes! yes! yes!"

"NOW THEN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE CODENAME 'SANDY BRIDGE' WAS CODE FOR?"

"yes."

"WOULD YOU REALLY LIKE TO KNOW?"

"... yes?"

"IT WAS CODE FOR: 'SANDY DESERT BRIDGE ... TO HELL'!!!, ... THE DESERT AND HELL BOTH BEING EXTREMELY HOT PLACES; SANDY BRIDGE PROCESSORS ARE THE HOTTEST CPU'S EVER CREATED! ... DO YOU GET IT?"

"yes."

"DO YOU REALIZE THAT THE CURRENT 11" MBA USES A 10W TDP CPU?"

"yes."

"DO YOU REALIZE THAT THE LOWEST VOLTAGE SANDY BRIDGE CPU IS 17W?"

"yes."

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE 320M CONTRIBUTES TO THE OVERALL TDP OF THE CURRENT 11" MBA, SO THAT A TOTAL OF 17W, WHICH INCLUDES THE INTEL 3000HD IGP, SEEMS, AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT MANY TIMES, EXTREMELY FEASIBLE, IF NOT CONSERVATIVE?"

"yes."

"BUT, 17 IS BIGGER THAN 10, IS IT NOT???!!!"

" ... yes."

"THEN SHUT UP! I'M GOING HOME!"

and in an instant, he was gone, and all that was left was the faintest smell of butterfly blood.

 

[MBABuyer]

hahaha wow, that took some time

And, I knew you were being sarcastic ahaha

That was my favorite post of the day!!!!!

You made me laugh,
Swayne

 

[TrollToddington]

Honestly, Nebulos is right. There are quite a few digital souls around who think their divine core 2 duo is fast enough - no need for a new processor, and the 320m is the best thing since sliced bread. All they use their MBA for is web browsing and text document creation - kinda ultra expensive typewriter. They do not think for a second other people might want to use the same computer for much more intensive computing tasks. For example, in another thread Scottsdale complained about the "incredibly ridiculous posts" around here whose "inaccuracies are really absurd, and those false points don't help anyone learn anything or make qualified decisions". As if someone should make a qualified decision based on what they have read on a rumors site. Unsurprisingly, Scottsdale added to the soup by claiming that a NVIDIA-based MBA is most likely far superior. (Check out this post for reference.)

Some go even further by claiming Apple has built up a huge pile of Core-2-duos and is going to use them till the cows come home. This would be my nightmare come true.

I wish the computer technology had stopped developing since 80286. The 80386SX was crap and the computer industry has been going rapidly downhill since then. The old CGA monitors did not require lightning fast video cards. DOS 3.30 wasn't a bad OS at all. The worst of all is that I have to spend $1000 on a new computer each 3 years in order to get the same work done, to run the same programs, which take the same amount of time to get the same amount of work done.

 

[Ridley]

Ridley and others,

Everything I said, have said before, and have yet to say in these forums is 100% correct.

LMAO!! Thank you, we all needed that! You sir, are an artist

Everything about that killed me! Especially the TDP and SJ shirt!

 

[Henry Spencer]

agree with me? YOU ARE STILL WRONG.

Lol... Thats the best post ive seen on MR yet!

 

[57004]

Because joining this forum automatically made me an authority on all things Macbook Air, Apple at large, and technology in general for that matter. The instant i post my opinions in one of these threads, the universe is altered instantaneously such that they become fact. if i say one thing, then i say the opposite, THEY ARE BOTH RIGHT. agree with me? YOU ARE STILL WRONG.

ROFL!!! You should be a writer.

On Topic: @TrollToddington: I can't imagine Apple stockpiling massive amounts C2D's. In the IT industry any large amounts of stock is a big risk because the depreciation is so high due to the quick innovation in the industry. Which is why many large hardware companies (like Dell) now only order the parts when you order the computer.

I know Apple doesn't follow the same principle but I can't imagine them stockpiling massive amounts of chips. Also they want to push thunderbolt, which the C2D doesn't support.

 

[alecgold]

To get back on topic, I bought the 13" MBA ultimate. Why? Because I needed then and there a new laptop.
What I do with it is working all day long (the battery is really good, when I'm careful, I can easily get 7 hours and sometimes even 9 or more, but then I'm having almost the lowest brightness and am just writing text in Word).
Same pixel count as the 15"MBP is a big extra for me, it makes the screen so much more usable!
I also use Parallels with XP (often 2 XP's running) and the word, excel, mail, safari and the other regular things.
This laptop works for me (and I think for most regular consumer and regular business users) because it does everything I need to.
Video looks good as well.
There is one drawback so far. First if you start to do some more intensive work the battery takes a good hit, IMHO a bigger hit than my MBP13" from 2009 I had before (I dropped it and died slowly on me). The C2D on the MBA seems to need to work harder to do the same as the MBP13" C2D.
Just one bit of a worry is how future proof it will be. I'm not sure if it will go very well with Lion combined with the future need to use Vista/windows 7 in parallels because XP isn't "good enough" anymore for some programs. We'll see.

So for the uses OP stated this will work perfect, but I would have rather had the choice to wait a few months for a LV or ULVi5 and then pick either the i5 or the 320m.

 

[vader_slri]

<snip>
"DO YOU REALIZE I CAN DESTROY YOU WITH A SINGLE MULTITOUCH GESTURE?"

"yes."

<snip>

ROFLMAO!!

Nebulos, this should be nominated for post of the year. Thanks for the laugh this morning.