CPU Wars 2022 - Apple Silicon vs. Intel/AMD

[mi7chy]

Even dragging a corner and resizing Safari on yahoo.com stutters badly. More reason Geekbench is crap.

And, native Quake AS port from same site. Even though it reports 107 fps it's misleading since running and looking at the floor feels like semi slide show. Could be Monterey though since it was ok on Big Sur 11.6.7. Tempted to roll back yet again.

M1 Macbook Air (feels lower than 107 fps)

AMD 4650U (473 fps at ~14W)

 

[altaic]

And, native Quake AS port from same site. Even though it reports 107 fps it's misleading since running and looking at the floor feels like semi slide show.

Or maybe you’re misleading. Maybe submit a bug report to MoltenVK? Or the engine’s repo, since it’s pretty clear that they haven’t optimized the port at all. Just some constructive advice.

 

[exoticSpice]

Even dragging a corner and resizing Safari on yahoo.com stutters badly. More reason Geekbench is crap.

And, native Quake AS port from same site. Even though it reports 107 fps it's misleading since running and looking at the floor feels like semi slide show. Could be Monterey though since it was ok on Big Sur 11.6.7. Tempted to roll back yet again.

M1 Macbook Air (feels lower than 107 fps)
View attachment 2086797

AMD 4650U (473 fps at ~14W)
View attachment 2086798

yea try a modern game like Witcher 3 or GTA 5 or Shadow of the Tomb Raider. It's obvious x86 CPUs and graphic APIs are more optimised to 90s games.

 

[exoticSpice]

Even dragging a corner and resizing Safari on yahoo.com stutters badly

happens on Windows in Chrome too on x86. this not does tell how slow the CPU is rather it tells how badly safari or chrome are optimised or rendered.

FireFox does not have this on macOS issue. drags and resizes smoothly than other browsers.

 

[leman]

happens on Windows in Chrome too on x86. this not does tell how slow the CPU is rather it tells how badly safari or chrome are optimised or rendered.

FireFox does not have this on macOS issue. drags and resizes smoothly than other browsers.

I suspect most of it has to do how yahoo codes the search bar (which is the source for perceived stuttering). There are some media queries that change the size the search bar depending on the window size. No idea why it looks smooth on Firefox but not on Safari/Chrome.

Anyway, this is all total nonsense anyway. The simple fact is that mi7chy has truly mastered the subtle art of trolling and is making the fools of us all. They post "true" (as in, factually correct) but mostly irrelevant information which they then use to draw completely arbitrary conclusions. It's just random noise with no sense or purpose except to mislead and confuse. And the rest of the forum jumps on it and tries to clean it up. It's dumb. In any sane community this user would have been permabanned long time ago as a bad player. But since they are not formally violating the rules... 🙄

 

[mi7chy]

Maybe submit a bug report to MoltenVK? Or the engine’s repo, since it’s pretty clear that they haven’t optimized the port at all. Just some constructive advice.

Not worth the time. This is an advantage of my workflow containing so many systems. I can switch to my #2 PC and get thousands of fps. May try it on Raspberry Pi 4 for shiz and giggles.

3460 fps (~75W 5950x CPU + 75W RX6800 GPU power consumption)

l33t fps

 

[leman]

Your workflow is about of getting ludicrous and totally pointless fps in retro games? Now it all makes sence…

 

[Feyl]

happens on Windows in Chrome too on x86. this not does tell how slow the CPU is rather it tells how badly safari or chrome are optimised or rendered.

FireFox does not have this on macOS issue. drags and resizes smoothly than other browsers.

macOS is not smooth in many places of the OS. It's been like that since OS X Yosemite.

 

[mi7chy]

Your workflow is about of getting ludicrous and totally pointless fps in retro games? Now it all makes sence…

Could be much worse like mesmerizing over useless Geekbench scores.

 

[Gudi]

It's no mistake that Apple has seen a huge uptick in sales with its shift to ARM. That wasn't because people hated Intel, it was because the MBP was marketed as being fast with fantast battery life. So performance is a metric that will continue to drive marketing and sales.

Even back in 2005 when Apple switched towards Intel, it was all about performance per watt. Nobody cared about raw performance regardless of power consumption.

 

[diamond.g]

Your workflow is about of getting ludicrous and totally pointless fps in retro games? Now it all makes sence…

Newer games aren't really CPU bound (with the hardware in question at least). Older games could be CPU bound but Apple doesn't really provide a(n easy) way to test the theory.

 

[diamond.g]

ok let me know when you can export ProRes videos and Blender classroom CPU on the 4650U as fast as M2. I am 100% sure that's real world.

Is there a way to force ProRes export to run on the CPU instead of the FFH Decoders?

 

[jujoje]

Could be much worse like mesmerizing over useless Geekbench scores.

Piffle; we all know it's about stockfish and watching Blender render BMWs.

Although as a side note, think I will play some quake

 

[maflynn]

Even dragging a corner and resizing Safari on yahoo.com stutters badly

I think this is more of a Safari problem, I largely ignore Safari, and continue to use Chrome. I'm no Chrome fanboy, its a resource hog, but its cross platform support allows my bookmarks and extensions to carry over.

happens on Windows in Chrome too on x86

As I mentioned I'm no Chrome fanboy, but it seems to run pretty well on my work laptop (which is really underpowered) and my desktop which is decently powered. Maybe if you have a lot of extensions, I only have a small selection

 

[exoticSpice]

Could be much worse like mesmerizing over useless Geekbench scores.

mmm, its so useless that AMD uses it.

 

[exoticSpice]

macOS is not smooth in many places of the OS. It's been like that since OS X Yosemite.

yes its not smooth. A total rewrite is needed. macOS is not Apple's #1 anymore has not been since 2007. I would say it's last.

order of priority(my take)
1. iOS
2. realityOS
3. watchOS(this OS got calculator before iPadOS)
4. iPadOS
5. macOS

Since M1 macOS has been improving. Apple has to fix the animations next, they are too slow.

 

[exoticSpice]

As I mentioned I'm no Chrome fanboy, but it seems to run pretty well on my work laptop (which is really underpowered) and my desktop which is decently powered. Maybe if you have a lot of extensions, I only have a small selection

Chrome is much better than Safari.

 

[exoticSpice]

Even back in 2005 when Apple switched towards Intel, it was all about performance per watt. Nobody cared about raw performance regardless of power consumption.

It looks like Intel is aiming to take back PPW crown with Lunar Lake( 16th gen? ).

It will hard AMD, Apple and Qualcomm are competing for it as well. This is not 2005-2006 where Intel was king.

 

[maflynn]

Chrome is much better than Safari.

Its more resource intensive then Safari, but yes operationally its superior.

 

[bcortens]

yes its not smooth. A total rewrite is needed. macOS is not Apple's #1 anymore has not been since 2007. I would say it's last.

order of priority(my take)
1. iOS
2. realityOS
3. watchOS(this OS got calculator before iPadOS)
4. iPadOS
5. macOS

Since M1 macOS has been improving. Apple has to fix the animations next, they are too slow.

No , no no no no no...

Total rewrites waste time that apple doesn't have the resources for...
Look at SwiftUI, nearly 4 years in and its still a dumpster fire compared to UIKit in terms of performance, stability, and customizability. SwiftUI is going to waste 10 years for nearly no benefit and I don't want them to do the same thing with macOS.

 

[DaKKs]

Its more resource intensive then Safari, but yes operationally its superior.

I've tried so many times to migrate to safari or firefox, but i always end up coming back to chrome. Its a terrible resource hog, yes, but its perfect for someone who uses multiple devices a day.

 

[ahurst]

Runs like poop though compared to old AMD 4650U. All running Raze 1.5.0 port of Duke Nukem 3D.

M1 Macbook Air full power mode (Duke Nukem 3D 35.7 fps)
View attachment 2086727

M1 Macbook Air low power mode (Duke Nukem 3D 26.2 fps)
View attachment 2086729

AMD 4650U battery efficient mode ~5.5W (Duke Nukem 3D 96.4 fps)
View attachment 2086731
View attachment 2086758

I think I remember reading that 'polymost' (or whatever the Duke 3D OpenGL render is called) is really weirdly/poorly written and so performance varies a lot between drivers based on how they implement specific legacy features.

The team who ported Ion Fury to the Switch had to do a major overhaul of the how the eDuke32 rendering engine worked in order to manage a stable 30 FPS for the ~20 year-old engine on the hardware, but they never upstreamed or open-sourced any of that work so it still runs poorly on a lot of specific platforms/drivers (including macOS's OpenGL-on-Metal implementation):

Part of Eduke32 engine which is responsible for hardware-accelerated rendering is called Polymost, and from the modern point of view, its architecture is not so effective. Polymost produces very high amount of draw calls and rendering state changes, and all of this work is done from the game main thread synchronously.


Each draw call has its constant cost, which does not depend on the geometry complexity. So, when you’ve got too many of such draw calls, the cost is way too high – that’s the main problem you gotta solve.

 

[mi7chy]

I think I remember reading that 'polymost' (or whatever the Duke 3D OpenGL render is called) is really weirdly/poorly written and so performance varies a lot between drivers based on how they implement specific legacy features.

Looks like crappy Monterey after all. Went back to last known working Big Sur 11.6.7 and more than doubled Duke Nukem 3D fps from 35.7 to 75.1 fps with same 1080p no vsync settings. Also, Quake is smoother at same fps while running and looking at floor. And, Safari resizing is still stuttery but without the blackouts. Too bad Big Sur isn't available on M2 and M1 Pro/Max/Ultra.

 

[exoticSpice]

Looks like crappy Monterey after all. Went back to last known working Big Sur 11.6.7 and more than doubled Duke Nukem 3D fps from 35.7 to 75.1 fps with same 1080p no vsync settings. Also, Quake is smoother at same fps while running and looking at floor. And, Safari resizing is still stuttery but without the blackouts. Too bad Big Sur isn't available on M2 and M1 Pro/Max/Ultra.

View attachment 2087085

See the Apple SoC is great! It's macOS that's the problem. Also not supporting OpenGL and Vulkan is silly too.

 

[altaic]

for example a variety of page sizes, some substantial changes to virtual machines, and even a new cache protocol

I picked up on the LLVM commit that lists FeatureHCX for the A16, so definitely looking forward to seeing new hypervisor/vm stuff in macOS at some point. I'm curious, though-- why do you think there'll be new page sizes and cache protocol?