Culture, taste, image .... and Apple's direction.

[hawkeye_a]

When Steve Jobs demoed an Apple product or service, did it ever matter to you what music/movie/tv show he chose during the demo on stage? I remember Jobs picking Bob Dylan or the Beatles many times. Would it have made a difference to you, if he had picked say... Brittany Spears or the Backstreet Boys? It would have to me.

I thought the Apple Beats deal was horrible on many levels. A subpar headphone company, advertizing/marketing driven, with a culture that appeals to wannabes and "pop" culture.

Then I came across this today:

IMHO Grado makes the best headphones. They have a self-confessed $0 ad budget and rely mainly on social media and word of mouth. They are focused on great sound and appeal to music lovers. I do not want Apple to buy them. But I found it very surprising that they have a Surface "special edition" product. While Apple chose to go with Beats. I'm not anywhere near to being a fan of Microsoft's products and I am not involved with Grado (apart from owing a pair of headphones they make).

I think this is yet another sign of the changing culture/taste/values at Apple, as it gets further away from Jobs influence and grows into an even bigger company than Jobs ever managed. I'm not a fan of the direction they're heading in.

Discuss.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Hear this.

 

[Zirel]

They are focused on great sound and appeal to music lovers.

And they don't deliver that!

They are crap!

Seriously, they sound tiny, they have no bass, everybody hears what you're listening to, they are uncomfortable, they don't fold.

I know they have lots of followers because of how they look, but for the majority of people, they are horrible and overpriced.

Sorry.
[doublepost=1485560344][/doublepost]

Hear this.

LOL, I can't listen to guy like that... seriously...

 

[Cineplex]

Hear this.

This guy is a bit in denial about being a fanboy lol. My Dell XPS 8900 (32gb, GTX980) has been a much better machine than any Intel Mac I've owned. Video and photo editing is a much better experience. Windows 10 is a very stable and reliable OS. The speed of Adobes creative suite is night and day.

As for Apple....one look at the font selection and layout on Apple.com says everything about today's Apple. They've lost the Steve Jobs asthetics and are run by dim people. Even the Apple of the 90's was a better Apple than what we have today. Its products are crap, its leader is crap, and the people running it are crap. The old Apple is gone and will never return. It's all just a memory.

 

[Zirel]

This guy is a bit in denial about being a fanboy lol. My Dell XPS 8900 (32gb, GTX980) has been a much better machine than any Intel Mac I've owned. Video and photo editing is a much better experience. Windows 10 is a very stable and reliable OS. The speed of Adobes creative suite is night and day.

As for Apple....one look at the font selection and layout on Apple.com says everything about today's Apple. They've lost the Steve Jobs asthetics and are run by dim people. Even the Apple of the 90's was a better Apple than what we have today. Its products are crap, its leader is crap, and the people running it are crap. The old Apple is gone and will never return. It's all just a memory.

Yes, tell us about your laptops battery life and weight, build and size...

As for Apple.com, yeah, they changed the for a more modern one, they are clearly doomed!

Meanwhile, Windows still has crappy font rendering in 2017, and your start menu is filled with ads!

 

[Cineplex]

Yes, tell us about your laptops battery life and weight, build and size...

As for Apple.com, yeah, they changed the for a more modern one, they are clearly doomed!

Meanwhile, Windows still has crappy font rendering in 2017, and your start menu is filled with ads!

Too bad its a desktop. Too bad I don't have a start menu with ads. Too bad I don't see anything wrong with Window's font rendering. Too bad you don't have proper taste to see poor font usage on Apple.com.

 

[Zirel]

Too bad its a desktop.

Then I don't see a reason to say "has been a much better machine than any Intel Mac I've owned". LOL

Too bad I don't have a start menu with ads.

After you cleaning up the mess... the newest Windows update you can't delete Microsoft Apps...

Too bad I don't see anything wrong with Window's font rendering.

Of course you don't...

Too bad you don't have proper taste to see poor font usage on Apple.com.

Poor taste? LMAO...

Says the guy that now reads Segoe UI...

 

[Cineplex]

Then I don't see a reason to say "has been a much better machine than any Intel Mac I've owned". LOL

You make zero sense here. I have said that my desktop (or machine as I put it) is much better than any Intel Mac that I've ever owned...including desktops and laptops. What is your problem with that statement? I made a point of Intel Macs because I feel that the PowerPC Macs and the OS that accompanied them were much better than the Intel generation.

You clearly are happy with your Apple crap...and that is fine. After 30 years of being a user and owner of their products...I can say whatever I want about them and really don't care if that hurts the feeling of the fanboys here.

Apple's products today are consumerist, emoji based, crap. People used to call my Macs in the 90's "toys". If they said that to me today I'd agree

 

[AidenShaw]

...

Says the guy that now reads Segoe UI...

 

[maflynn]

This guy is a bit in denial about being a fanboy

Seriously, he is, but I could deal with watching him too long. He was just too annoying.

 

[Cineplex]

Seriously, he is, but I could deal with watching him too long. He was just too annoying.

"I'm not a fanboy, but I have an Apple tattoo. I'm not a fanboy, but I hate Windows and use only Macs. I'm not a fanboy, but I worked for Apple and was #1 is MacBook Air support....WORLDWIDE (lol). I'm not a fanboy, but I made a fanboy video while indicating that I'm not a fanboy."

He is very painful to listen too. Imagine that AppleCare support call. "So what's the problem with your Mac today? I'M NOT A FANBOY!"

 

[Zirel]

You make zero sense here. I have said that my desktop (or machine as I put it) is much better than any Intel Mac that I've ever owned...including desktops and laptops. What is your problem with that statement? I made a point of Intel Macs because I feel that the PowerPC Macs and the OS that accompanied them were much better than the Intel generation.

You clearly are happy with your Apple crap...and that is fine. After 30 years of being a user and owner of their products...I can say whatever I want about them and really don't care if that hurts the feeling of the fanboys here.

Apple's products today are consumerist, emoji based, crap. People used to call my Macs in the 90's "toys". If they said that to me today I'd agree

Have fun with updates you can't skip and talking to guy in India by the phone.

Crap, crap, emoji, crap, crap...

 

[tech4all]

Hear this.

I stopped at "winblows."

 

[AidenShaw]

I stopped at "winblows."

Yes, anytime someone uses the childish "WinBlows" or "WinDoze" - it's time to hit the "back" button and find another story.

 

[lowendlinux]

People for some reason relate to Jobs so he could sell them change and they cannot relate to Cook though I don't know why?

 

[maflynn]

People for some reason relate to Jobs so he could sell them change and they cannot relate to Cook though I don't know why?

Because Jobs had charisma and Cook does not

 

[ssong]

Because Jobs had charisma and Cook does not

I'd also like to add that Jobs seemed to have a clear vision of what he wanted or the direction of IT development he believed in, whereas Cook lacks that vision, and if he does indeed have a vision then it is that of a streamlined company that is highly efficient at printing out obvious product updates.

 

[Zirel]

Because Jobs had charisma and Cook does not

And because Apple was the little guy back then, and now Apple is the big guy.

And because Apple was fishing for fanboys back then, now they don't, Microsoft is the new fanboy fisher (among other self-absorbed Chinese), Samsung tried, but they don't have it.
[doublepost=1485889217][/doublepost]

I'd also like to add that Jobs seemed to have a clear vision of what he wanted or the direction of IT development he believed in, whereas Cook lacks that vision, and if he does indeed have a vision then it is that of a streamlined company that is highly efficient at printing out obvious product updates.

"Obvious"...

"Obvious" when every Android and PC maker copies them. Like TouchID, it was so "obvious" that it had to be Apple to buy that startup and to put on people's fingers.

 

[ssong]

And because Apple was the little guy back then, and now Apple is the big guy.

And because Apple was fishing for fanboys back then, now they don't, Microsoft is the new fanboy fisher (among other self-absorbed Chinese), Samsung tried, but they don't have it.
[doublepost=1485889217][/doublepost]

"Obvious"...

"Obvious" when every Android and PC maker copies them. Like TouchID, it was so "obvious" that it had to be Apple to buy that startup and to put on people's fingers.

TouchID was introduced in '13 with the iPhone 5S, that was still considered the era of Steve Jobs' roadmap products. For a feature like TouchID to be implemented, it would have to have had at least a few years of R&D. Since TouchID I don't think there was any introduction of a significant game changer in Human Computer Interaction that Apple have released. The closest would be the variations of Force Touch on iOS and macOS and now the Touch Bar, hardly game changers that TouchID was.

Apple has also shifted its focus towards services significantly, and haven't had crazy product launches. I'm happy with my Apple Watch but it really wasn't a revolutionary product, if anything it is a bit unimaginative.

 

[Zirel]

TouchID was introduced in '13 with the iPhone 5S, that was still considered the era of Steve Jobs' roadmap products.

Is that so?

Then prove it.

Touch ID wasn't invented long after Steve Jobs died, and Steve was never keen on investing in R&D, in fact, the very first thing they did was to kill ATG.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Advanced_Technology_Group
[doublepost=1485896447][/doublepost]

Since TouchID I don't think there was any introduction of a significant game changer in Human Computer Interaction that Apple have released.

Yeah, Digital Crown, TouchBar, Force Touch and 3D Touch and the better handling of wet hands with the iPhone 7 and AppleWatch Series 2 count for nothing...

I almost forget the Apple Pencil and he new butterfly keyboard.

Apple has the best input in the industry, not a chance for competitors.

3D Touch not a game changer? That's comparable to the introduction of right click on mice, only Macintosh fanboys back then defended that right click wasn't important.

 

[Cineplex]

Is that so?

Then prove it.

Touch ID wasn't invented long after Steve Jobs died, and Steve was never keen on investing in R&D, in fact, the very first thing they did was to kill ATG.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Advanced_Technology_Group
[doublepost=1485896447][/doublepost]

My god I forgot all about that. Now I remember why I liked Apple of the 90's and slowly began to hate it as time went on.

 

[Zirel]

My god I forgot all about that. Now I remember why I liked Apple of the 90's and slowly began to hate it as time went on.

Basically you are saying that Steve Jobs did bad to Apple.

And that the old model, which was ripping consumers off, was the right thing to do.

 

[ssong]

Is that so?

Then prove it.

Touch ID wasn't invented long after Steve Jobs died, and Steve was never keen on investing in R&D, in fact, the very first thing they did was to kill ATG.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Advanced_Technology_Group
[doublepost=1485896447][/doublepost]

Yeah, Digital Crown, TouchBar, Force Touch and 3D Touch and the better handling of wet hands with the iPhone 7 and AppleWatch Series 2 count for nothing...

I almost forget the Apple Pencil and he new butterfly keyboard.

Apple has the best input in the industry, not a chance for competitors.

3D Touch not a game changer? That's comparable to the introduction of right click on mice, only Macintosh fanboys back then defended that right click wasn't important.

It wasn't about Jobs not liking R&D, that department was set up after his ousting to work on fringe projects that could have an influence in the future. It's practially allowing talent to sit around and dream instead of giving them a focus. Hence, upon his return he worked to streamline the business and one of the things would be to cut a team that is dedicated to building a future Apple may not even have given the dire financial situation it was in. It has been widely reported that Steve Jobs had already begun working on the iPhone 5 series and even the iPhone 6.

Further suggestions can be made that TouchID fits Steve's philosophy of adding components that are essential and beneficial to the user. The development logic was always about adding a positive value to the user that would become essential to the user.

All the things you mention are welcome additions but they are not a game changer. There's a reason why Android was quick to adopt fingerprint sensors but not the 3D Touch function. I don't know about anyone else in this forum but from all the people that I've seen, they rarely use 3D Touch or Force Touch. Both of these interaction methods are not as intuitive as simply placing your finger on the TouchID sensor. They require a deeper push, an unintuitive motion that has to be learnt by the user. That alone is enough to suggest it's not a game changer.

Touch Bar and the Digital Crown were answers for a question no one was asking. It's too early for the Touch Bar to be judged fairly, I'll admit that, I will also admit that the future is bright if the developers are able to creatively interpret its possibilities. The reality is that for the time being, only few apps make enough use of the Touch Bar for it to be considered a game changer and in fact for most users all it does is replace keyboard shortcuts. Over time once they get used to it then yes it will simplify a step but let's see how that develops.

And the Pencil and Keyboard.... Yes they were amazing and industry leading (Keyboard not so much... jamming seems to be a reoccurring topic). But it's hardly a game changer, if anything Apple was a bit late to the party.


Regardless of what side you stand on, the fact we're even having this talk shows that Apple has changed over the years. Whether the change was for the better or worse, we obviously differ in opinion and both make valid points. My personal concern is that quality has significantly suffered over the last few years with each launch being botched and all devices having some sort of hardware issue that makes people question QC. Steve's Apple wasn't perfect either (Antennagate anyone?) but they acknowledged the issue (albeit by comparing it to everyone else and saying they do it too) and offered a solution.

Bendgate never got formally addressed although Apple inadvertently acknowledged it by using a strong aluminium in the subsequent version. The new MBP suffered battery life issues due to a Safari bug. Some iPhone 7 Plus' make a hissing noise.

Reality is, Apple may be stretching itself too thin and losing its original corporate culture. By introducing too much new blood and losing many of its core members this is only going to continue and Apple will become a very different company than what it used to be 10 years ago.

I have serious concerns that the next iPhone could end up being a massive QC disaster with Apple supposedly looking to add many different features never before seen on other iPhones. The fact that OLED display yields are low will also make the launch day experience a disaster for most and chances are some will wait months for their pre-orders to arrive.

 

[Cineplex]

Basically you are saying that Steve Jobs did bad to Apple.

And that the old model, which was ripping consumers off, was the right thing to do.

The iPhone was the product that ripped the old Apple apart finally. I think that Jobs did some great things to refocus Apple. But I didn't have a problem with old Apple. I rather liked being able to buy Apple printers, monitors, and accessories. Apple had got to a point in the road where it needed inspiration. Steve did that...but then it got crazy. Apple retail was the best and worst idea all at the same time. I actually liked small Apple resellers over the Apple Stores. Once it got to 2003ish....Apple started a raid change to where it is today.

 

[Zirel]

The iPhone was the product that ripped the old Apple apart finally. I think that Jobs did some great things to refocus Apple. But I didn't have a problem with old Apple. I rather liked being able to buy Apple printers, monitors, and accessories. Apple had got to a point in the road where it needed inspiration. Steve did that...but then it got crazy. Apple retail was the best and worst idea all at the same time. I actually liked small Apple resellers over the Apple Stores. Once it got to 2003ish....Apple started a raid change to where it is today.

Well, I give you that, at first you looked like a troll.

But do you understand that your opinion is too unpragmatic?
[doublepost=1485918708][/doublepost]

It wasn't about Jobs not liking R&D, that department was set up after his ousting to work on fringe projects that could have an influence in the future. It's practially allowing talent to sit around and dream instead of giving them a focus. Hence, upon his return he worked to streamline the business and one of the things would be to cut a team that is dedicated to building a future Apple may not even have given the dire financial situation it was in. It has been widely reported that Steve Jobs had already begun working on the iPhone 5 series and even the iPhone 6.

Further suggestions can be made that TouchID fits Steve's philosophy of adding components that are essential and beneficial to the user. The development logic was always about adding a positive value to the user that would become essential to the user.

All the things you mention are welcome additions but they are not a game changer. There's a reason why Android was quick to adopt fingerprint sensors but not the 3D Touch function. I don't know about anyone else in this forum but from all the people that I've seen, they rarely use 3D Touch or Force Touch. Both of these interaction methods are not as intuitive as simply placing your finger on the TouchID sensor. They require a deeper push, an unintuitive motion that has to be learnt by the user. That alone is enough to suggest it's not a game changer.

Touch Bar and the Digital Crown were answers for a question no one was asking. It's too early for the Touch Bar to be judged fairly, I'll admit that, I will also admit that the future is bright if the developers are able to creatively interpret its possibilities. The reality is that for the time being, only few apps make enough use of the Touch Bar for it to be considered a game changer and in fact for most users all it does is replace keyboard shortcuts. Over time once they get used to it then yes it will simplify a step but let's see how that develops.

And the Pencil and Keyboard.... Yes they were amazing and industry leading (Keyboard not so much... jamming seems to be a reoccurring topic). But it's hardly a game changer, if anything Apple was a bit late to the party.


Regardless of what side you stand on, the fact we're even having this talk shows that Apple has changed over the years. Whether the change was for the better or worse, we obviously differ in opinion and both make valid points. My personal concern is that quality has significantly suffered over the last few years with each launch being botched and all devices having some sort of hardware issue that makes people question QC. Steve's Apple wasn't perfect either (Antennagate anyone?) but they acknowledged the issue (albeit by comparing it to everyone else and saying they do it too) and offered a solution.

Bendgate never got formally addressed although Apple inadvertently acknowledged it by using a strong aluminium in the subsequent version. The new MBP suffered battery life issues due to a Safari bug. Some iPhone 7 Plus' make a hissing noise.

Reality is, Apple may be stretching itself too thin and losing its original corporate culture. By introducing too much new blood and losing many of its core members this is only going to continue and Apple will become a very different company than what it used to be 10 years ago.

I have serious concerns that the next iPhone could end up being a massive QC disaster with Apple supposedly looking to add many different features never before seen on other iPhones. The fact that OLED display yields are low will also make the launch day experience a disaster for most and chances are some will wait months for their pre-orders to arrive.

Sorry, but you proved nothing in that wall of text, and no, Steve Jobs didn't had anything to do with TouchID, you just like the idea he did. There are no jamming problems or else Nilay Patel would write about it and I can't find it.