D70s verse D80, anyone still prefer the D70s?

[epicwelshman]

I don't remember exactly which review I read about this (been checking out the D80, D200, and D40x myself) but it was saying that Nikon has adjusted its colors for "consumer appeal" on pro-sumer models, altering the greens, etc... for what the 'entry level consumer used to a p+s' is expecting.?

The review had recommended NOT using default settings, but a specific combination of saturation, noise reduction, and sharpness to achieve much crisper images than the factory setting offers on the low end dSLR Nikons.

This would apply only to JPGs, right? If not, did the review give directions to change the settings, or are you meant to figure it out on your own?

 

[EstorilM]

This would apply only to JPGs, right? If not, did the review give directions to change the settings, or are you meant to figure it out on your own?

I wouldn't fault them for that - most people won't know how to do post-processing stuff to get the most out of their images, nor will they tweak the camera's processing settings either. Yet, they're likely to bitch when they don't get the results they're looking for (those "pro" results.. since they just shelled out all that $$ for an slr, right?) So yeah, they took it into their own hands.

Having said that, lately I've really started nailing down the perfect image optimization settings for my D200 (hue, saturation, contrast, sharpness, color mode, etc.. ) I've also been using the tweaked custom WB settings (most people don't know that there's a +/- 3 setting for EACH white balance mode. So for sunlight, cloudy, incandescent, etc.. you can have 6 specific modes to tweak the color for each. (hold down WB buttom, command dial (rear) toggles overall WB mode, sub command dial (front) controls the "tweak" for each mode.) I've had particularly good results with -1 and -2 direct sunlight WB, casts a really nice warm tone to pictures.. bump it up to -3 for sunset/sunrise stuff. Most of what I do is sports stuff in fields anyways, so it's nice to have a tone like that to your images.

Anyways, back on topic. The only thing I'll take on the D70 is the CF slot. The D80 is (these are facts, not opinions..) faster (shutter lag, viewfinder blackout, and the fact that it's processing 10mp instead of 6) more accurate (CAM1100 AF, 3D Matrix II metering, more i-TTL control) more durable (beautifully constructed chassis/control layout) and has a big, bright, accurate viewfinder. It's also a LOT more customizable (custom / shooting A/B/C modes, custom menus, and custom function buttons.)

It's just a better machine guys, no way around it.. kinda an evolutionary thing. But considering how old the D70 / s are, it's still holding up very well.

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

...more durable (beautifully constructed chassis/control layout)...

Your other statements are true, but this one is an opinion. Anyway, both models have the same general layout as far as controls (sans the larger display and new interface).

...It's just a better machine guys, no way around it.. kinda an evolutionary thing. But considering how old the D70 / s are, it's still holding up very well.

Of course, thats how new products are, they are better then the pervious models.

Anyway, I suspect my issues with the D80 images come from what srf4real said about the color optimization - I did notice they looked more of that of a P&S rather than a DSLR.

epicwelshman, I think a 2GB CF card (pro speed) is about $50-$60 down at the local Ritz. But I'm not exactly sure, so don't quote me on that!

 

[dogbone]

@Plymouthbreezer

First to address the cf/sd thing. I keep my wits about me when inserting my CF card into my D70s. My first digital camera was the Coolpix 4500, one day in a split second of absent mindedness I put the card in sideways, I stopped in the nick of time but not before I had ever so slightly bent a single pin.

Peering in with a torch I thought to myself 'no way', but after sweating profusely for about 2 hours with a toothpick I managed to straighten it just enough to get the card in and it repaired itself overnight.

The moral? There is none except that I concentrate on what I'm doing when I put my card into my D70s. Accidents happen. This is not enough for me to prefer SD over CF unless it was faster and better which it isn't.

Regarding the colour. Being a colour nutter as I worked in professional labs for about 30 years I am amazed at the fidelity of Nikon. I shoot in Adobe98 and open in Adobe98 and the colour of neutrals and flesh tones is extraordinary. As an example I submit the jpg enclosed. This was shot by putting a sheet of white paper on the loungeroom table and taking a quick snap in Auto mode with flash. The purpose of the shot was just to illustrate a post it was not meant to be anything more than a snap.

However while I was downsizing it in photoshop I thought to myself, gee that looks pretty neutral, in fact it looks like a b/w shot with a coloured lable. So I ran the colour sampler over it in Photoshop and my jaw dropped to the ground when I discovered that it is perfectly neutral, (ie 127,127, 127, or 63,63,63, etc) all over the whole shot. There is not even any crossover on the shadow. I would have said that this is not possible if I hadn't seen it myself.

I can't imagine the D70s controls being any better laid out than they are. Simple and intuitive. Until I need more pixels I'm pretty happy with it.

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

...Regarding the colour. Being a colour nutter as I worked in professional labs for about 30 years I am amazed at the fidelity of Nikon. I shoot in Adobe98 and open in Adobe98 and the colour of neutrals and flesh tones is extraordinary. As an example I submit the jpg enclosed. This was shot by putting a sheet of white paper on the loungeroom table and taking a quick snap in Auto mode with flash. The purpose of the shot was just to illustrate a post it was not meant to be anything more than a snap.

However while I was downsizing it in photoshop I thought to myself, gee that looks pretty neutral, in fact it looks like a b/w shot with a coloured lable. So I ran the colour sampler over it in Photoshop and my jaw dropped to the ground when I discovered that it is perfectly neutral, (ie 127,127, 127, or 63,63,63, etc) all over the whole shot. There is not even any crossover on the shadow. I would have said that this is not possible if I hadn't seen it myself.

I can't imagine the D70s controls being any better laid out than they are. Simple and intuitive. Until I need more pixels I'm pretty happy with it.

Excellent illustration of this point. I too, am often amazed at how exact the D70s captures both color and detail. I noticed and used D50's and thought the same, but the D40 and D80 seem to be less stellar in these areas.

 

[epicwelshman]

Excellent illustration of this point. I too, am often amazed at how exact the D70s captures both color and detail. I noticed and used D50's and thought the same, but the D40 and D80 seem to be less stellar in these areas.

Blasphemy... how dare you suggest that an older model camera may be superior to a newer one!

But seriously... when you guys are mentioning colour and detail are we talking out-of-camera JPG, or does it extend to pre-processed RAW files too?

 

[dogbone]

But seriously... when you guys are mentioning colour and detail are we talking out-of-camera JPG, or does it extend to pre-processed RAW files too?

Out of camera jpg. Or camera processed RAW if you will.

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

Blasphemy... how dare you suggest that an older model camera may be superior to a newer one!

But seriously... when you guys are mentioning colour and detail are we talking out-of-camera JPG, or does it extend to pre-processed RAW files too?

I didn't get to see processed RAWs from the D80, but I'm guessing...

 

[rcyoung]

Why not go for the best off all possible worlds. Mix and match them to your heart's content......

I have a D70 and wanted to see if a SD-CF adapter ( by EagleTec-$20 USD off Ebay) would let me use an existing Sandisk SD card I had lying around in the D70...it did! Works fine from what I can tell so far.

Then I took it another level. I got a 2Gb Sandisk microSD/TransFlash SD adapter package (about $29 USD). The microSD card is usually seen in cell phones for additional storage, and is about the size of a black-eyed pea, compared to the SD card which is about the size of a postage stamp (here in the USA anyway).

I placed it & the TransFlash SD adapter in the SD-CF adapter, and the put the whole thing in the D70. That pushes the micro card through 2-3 levels of "adaptation" so I wasn't holding my breath.....guess what....It also works like a charm!!

Now one can use ANY memory card that happens to come along.

 

[carlgo]

Okay, so I might be a bit biased because I shoot with a D70s everyday, but I've noticed some things.

Yesterday I was shooting with a new D80... Aside from the new layout of the control buttons on back (that's something I can get use to), I found the D80 to be less a user friendly camera, and on auto mode, the colors a bit wacky in comparison to my D70s. Everything seemed a bit unnatural, and I just didn't like the shots I was getting, mainly due to the off-looking colors that were showing up in my images. I made sure all the settings were factory default too, so I know it wasn't something like that that was causing this. Anyone know what was going on here?

And SD Card?? I much rather the professional standard of CF, this seems like an odd step back....

Anyway, just observations. Nonetheless, I'm happy with my D70s, and won't mind skipping the D80 for a D200 when the time comes to upgrade.

I think you might enjoy the Ken Rockwell site (via Google) as he goes into some interesting stuff regarding color settings and such. His site is easily searched and I have found it very informative and not too techy or snobby.

One nice thing about the D70, unlike some of the newer models, is that it will trigger remote Nikon flashes without having to buy any kind of command device.

 

[epicwelshman]

I think you might enjoy the Ken Rockwell site (via Google) as he goes into some interesting stuff regarding color settings and such. His site is easily searched and I have found it very informative and not too techy or snobby.

One nice thing about the D70, unlike some of the newer models, is that it will trigger remote Nikon flashes without having to buy any kind of command device.

The D80 and D200 etc. can command wireless flashes on their own. Only the D40/x can't, similar to it's predecessor the D50.

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

I think you might enjoy the Ken Rockwell site (via Google) as he goes into some interesting stuff regarding color settings and such. His site is easily searched and I have found it very informative and not too techy or snobby.

One nice thing about the D70, unlike some of the newer models, is that it will trigger remote Nikon flashes without having to buy any kind of command device.

I've seen his site, and unlike many, I actually enjoy reading his stuff. I'll have to look for the pages you mentioned.

 

[epicwelshman]

I've seen his site, and unlike many, I actually enjoy reading his stuff. I'll have to look for the pages you mentioned.

I must say, I do enjoy his site too. He seems to have a wealth of info on almost all Nikon products (and a lot of Canon now too). He can be a little biased I think, and he often reviews things without having really used them, but he's generally a reliable source.

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

I must say, I do enjoy his site too. He seems to have a wealth of info on almost all Nikon products (and a lot of Canon now too). He can be a little biased I think, and he often reviews things without having really used them, but he's generally a reliable source.

Yeah, he can be biased, but he even states that any published stuff on his site is simply his personal, professional opinion. I respect anyone who has worked in the business as long as he has, and surely he knows what he's doing if he's gotten as far as he has.

 

[Piarco]

Well I have to say a big thank you to Plymouthbreezer for this thread - it's exactly what I need to snap me out of the thought cycle I've been going through the last couple of days!
I've got a D70s and love it. And I've just invested in a 50mm f1.4 and the 18-200mm VR lenses and the SB-400 flash... which all got me to thinking about the D80. I mean, 11-point focus, ISO100, ability to have a battery grip without the need for external cabling, bigger LCD with a better menu system (apparantly) and the sensor from a D200.... but at the cost of a slightly smaller frame and slower flash sync speeds. Oh, and the shift to SD, which is a pro and con - slower and smaller, but it would mean I can use the memory card reader in my expresscard slot in my MBP, and interchange the cards with my compact camera when needed.

The major aspect was the size to me. The D70s is perfectly sized for my hands. Anything smaller and it feels cramped... and the D80 really was borderline. But I went to go and try one out again yesterday, and thought I could live with it, especially if I got the battery grip. But...

I LOVE my D70s. I know the controls completely, I can change the manual settings like lightening now and it feels like part of me. So after a bit of soul searching - and this thread - I'll be sticking with the D70s. If the D90 (or whatever its going to be) is bigger than the D80, I'll upgrade then, if not I'll wait until my skills are a match for the D200.

So thanks folks - the D70s is sticking with me for a while yet!

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

Well I have to say a big thank you to Plymouthbreezer for this thread - it's exactly what I need to snap me out of the thought cycle I've been going through the last couple of days!
I've got a D70s and love it. And I've just invested in a 50mm f1.4 and the 18-200mm VR lenses and the SB-400 flash... which all got me to thinking about the D80. I mean, 11-point focus, ISO100, ability to have a battery grip without the need for external cabling, bigger LCD with a better menu system (apparantly) and the sensor from a D200.... but at the cost of a slightly smaller frame and slower flash sync speeds. Oh, and the shift to SD, which is a pro and con - slower and smaller, but it would mean I can use the memory card reader in my expresscard slot in my MBP, and interchange the cards with my compact camera when needed.

The major aspect was the size to me. The D70s is perfectly sized for my hands. Anything smaller and it feels cramped... and the D80 really was borderline. But I went to go and try one out again yesterday, and thought I could live with it, especially if I got the battery grip. But...

I LOVE my D70s. I know the controls completely, I can change the manual settings like lightening now and it feels like part of me. So after a bit of soul searching - and this thread - I'll be sticking with the D70s. If the D90 (or whatever its going to be) is bigger than the D80, I'll upgrade then, if not I'll wait until my skills are a match for the D200.

So thanks folks - the D70s is sticking with me for a while yet!

Good to hear your thoughts - same feelings as me!

 

[OreoCookie]

@Piarco
How is the SB-400 flash? I'm thinking of getting one, but they didn't have it in one store and in another one, they tried to push another flash on me (which I didn't appreciate).

The size seems to be great and the power sufficient to take family pictures. Can you recommend it?

Just to add my 2 cents: I vastly prefer the D80 for mainly one reason: the viewfinder. I wear glasses and ever since my F80 as well as Oly E-20, I got spoiled with large viewfinders. For somebody who wears glasses, the decision is a no-brainer.
I also prefer the layout of the controls (in particular zooming into and out of images), but this is just me.

 

[epicwelshman]

@Piarco
How is the SB-400 flash? I'm thinking of getting one, but they didn't have it in one store and in another one, they tried to push another flash on me (which I didn't appreciate).

The size seems to be great and the power sufficient to take family pictures. Can you recommend it?

Just to add my 2 cents: I vastly prefer the D80 for mainly one reason: the viewfinder. I wear glasses and ever since my F80 as well as Oly E-20, I got spoiled with large viewfinders. For somebody who wears glasses, the decision is a no-brainer.
I also prefer the layout of the controls (in particular zooming into and out of images), but this is just me.

On this note, I must say that the D40x viewfinder is irritating when wearing glasses. I don't need glasses all the time, but when I do wear them I find using the D40x's viewfinder downright annoying, and have resorted to taking my glasses off when shooting. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just a small viewfinder?

 

[Piarco]

Good to hear your thoughts - same feelings as me!

@Piarco
How is the SB-400 flash? I'm thinking of getting one, but they didn't have it in one store and in another one, they tried to push another flash on me (which I didn't appreciate).

The size seems to be great and the power sufficient to take family pictures. Can you recommend it?

Just to add my 2 cents: I vastly prefer the D80 for mainly one reason: the viewfinder. I wear glasses and ever since my F80 as well as Oly E-20, I got spoiled with large viewfinders. For somebody who wears glasses, the decision is a no-brainer.
I also prefer the layout of the controls (in particular zooming into and out of images), but this is just me.

The SB-400 has been perfect for my uses. I didn't need to go as far as the SB-600, I just needed something more powerful and a little more versitile than the pop-up flash. And obviously it had to be a bounce flash. And it ticks all those boxes - the difference a bounce flash make when taking shots in a room is amazing - going from an over exposed subject and the background thrust into darkness (an exaggeration I know!) to a beautifully even lit and natural looking picture. Excellent. Battery life is great, it goes off when the camera is off, even if you have forgotten to turn the flash itself off, cycle time is excellent as well. Well worth the £75 I paid.

The viewfinder is better on the D80, but as I always wear contacts, it wasn't a point winner for me. And with controls you always adapt to what you have so I'm just as happy with my D70s. The zooming in and out of images would be a very welcome addition, giving an extra level of proofing on the fly...

 

[OreoCookie]

On this note, I must say that the D40x viewfinder is irritating when wearing glasses. I don't need glasses all the time, but when I do wear them I find using the D40x's viewfinder downright annoying, and have resorted to taking my glasses off when shooting. Am I doing something wrong, or is this just a small viewfinder?

It's the viewfinder. The thing is that due to the crop factor (usually 1.5 or 1.6), the viewfinders just got smaller. My F80 had a viewfinder that was at least as big as on my D80 and just dwarfed the D70's viewfinder. The size of the viewfinder was the reason why I wasn't really tempted to sell my E-20 and get a D70. The introduction of the D80 changed that.

I bought a used D70 and kept it for two weeks. Then I tried the viewfinder of a D80 and bought one as soon as I saw a good offer on craigslist. It's also the reason why I wouldn't buy a D40(X). The D40X is a beautiful camera: sleek, fast, great image quality and does pretty much everything you ask for. But it's too small and more importantly, the viewfinder is too small.

I would suggest, you try the D80's viewfinder in a shop or so. BTW, I didn't notice much of a difference in terms of picture quality (in a lab, perhaps, but in real life, nah), nor is the resolution that important to me (anything above 5 MP has been sufficient for everything I have done up until now).

 

[OreoCookie]

The SB-400 has been perfect for my uses. I didn't need to go as far as the SB-600, I just needed something more powerful and a little more versitile than the pop-up flash. And obviously it had to be a bounce flash. And it ticks all those boxes - the difference a bounce flash make when taking shots in a room is amazing - going from an over exposed subject and the background thrust into darkness (an exaggeration I know!) to a beautifully even lit and natural looking picture. Excellent. Battery life is great, it goes off when the camera is off, even if you have forgotten to turn the flash itself off, cycle time is excellent as well. Well worth the £75 I paid.

Sounds like I will order one before my trip to Vegas!

The viewfinder is better on the D80, but as I always wear contacts, it wasn't a point winner for me. And with controls you always adapt to what you have so I'm just as happy with my D70s. The zooming in and out of images would be a very welcome addition, giving an extra level of proofing on the fly...

I was very content with the D70's performance, if it weren't for the viewfinder, I would have invested the extra $300 in glass. In terms of real-life image quality, there is virtually no difference under normal conditions. I have never needed more than 5 MP either, so all the extra resolution is just theory.

 

[epicwelshman]

The SB-400 has been perfect for my uses. I didn't need to go as far as the SB-600, I just needed something more powerful and a little more versitile than the pop-up flash. And obviously it had to be a bounce flash. And it ticks all those boxes - the difference a bounce flash make when taking shots in a room is amazing - going from an over exposed subject and the background thrust into darkness (an exaggeration I know!) to a beautifully even lit and natural looking picture. Excellent. Battery life is great, it goes off when the camera is off, even if you have forgotten to turn the flash itself off, cycle time is excellent as well. Well worth the £75 I paid.

I went for the SB-600 over the 400. I wanted something more powerful, versatile, and with (eventual) wireless ability. I'd love to do some off camera flash work. I also like the ability to bounce vertical shots, as well as horizontally bounce normal shots.

Now I'm not trying to belittle the SB-400; from what I've read it's a great little flash. I just don't really want to buy another flash, and I knew with the SB-400 I would. However, I paid nearly $300 CDN for my flash, which is well more than the SB-400!

Just my 2cents

 

[OreoCookie]

I went for the SB-600 over the 400. I wanted something more powerful, versatile, and with (eventual) wireless ability. I'd love to do some off camera flash work. I also like the ability to bounce vertical shots, as well as horizontally bounce normal shots.

Now I'm not trying to belittle the SB-400; from what I've read it's a great little flash. I just don't really want to buy another flash, and I knew with the SB-400 I would. However, I paid nearly $300 CDN for my flash, which is well more than the SB-400!

Yeah, the SB-600 is definitely a good flash. The appeal of the SB-400 is that it's small and I can tilt the flash 90 degrees (unlike the built-in pop-up flash).

What do you take shots of that you need multiple flashes for? Sounds interesting …

 

[epicwelshman]

Yeah, the SB-600 is definitely a good flash. The appeal of the SB-400 is that it's small and I can tilt the flash 90 degrees (unlike the built-in pop-up flash).

What do you take shots of that you need multiple flashes for? Sounds interesting …

I don't take any multiple flash photos yet... but I intend to. I guess i was just trying to future-proof myself. The SB-400 would have been fine for now, but I know eventually when I do multiple flash images I'd need to essentially replace it with at least an SB-600 (bounce ability, wireless etc.) Size also wasn't a huge issue for me... but it is quite a clunky flash.

I'd love the SB-400 as an everyday non-built-in flash, but I can't justify spending money on that too, when there are so many other camera accessories I want *cough... I'm looking at you 50mm 1.8 ...cough*

 

[Piarco]

I don't take any multiple flash photos yet... but I intend to. I guess i was just trying to future-proof myself. The SB-400 would have been fine for now, but I know eventually when I do multiple flash images I'd need to essentially replace it with at least an SB-600 (bounce ability, wireless etc.) Size also wasn't a huge issue for me... but it is quite a clunky flash.

I'd love the SB-400 as an everyday non-built-in flash, but I can't justify spending money on that too, when there are so many other camera accessories I want *cough... I'm looking at you 50mm 1.8 ...cough*

I was very tempted to go for the SB-600 but for my current needs the SB-400 was more than enough. I'll upgrade in a year or so when I've gone as far as I can creatively with the 400. And go for the 50mm 1.4... you won't regret it

And as a sidenote, I've just had notice my 18-200mm VR has arrived in the post room.
I'm all giddy with excitement!