Dell with all it's problems can make a more reliable computer than Apple?

[Subiklim]

After reading all the horror stories people have been having with their Macbooks and Macbook Pros, I decided to do the unthinkable, and order a Dell laptop until Apple gets it together.

I'm amazed to hear all these problems, because my iMac has been the most fantastic computer I've ever had, and I told myself after buying it that I would never ever buy another windows machine.

So I got my dell, and half expected it to be very hot, and loud, as it has similar components with the Apple, and Dell certianly couldn't do a better job, right?

This computer has been VERY quite, maybe even quiter than my iMac, and it's so cool I can hardly tell it's on. Even when I'm running Counter Strike.

So I decided to take a look at the cooling paste, to see if it was misapplied as Apple has reportadly been doing. I found taking apart this system was a joke compared with taking apart my Powerbook G4 12".

All I had to do was remove this panel:

Note, it had normal screws, not Torx

So easy! This took me over 45 min to get to this point on my powerbook.

Removing the cooling dealie was easy too.

And, ah ha! Normal cooling paste applied!

I'm sure someone high up in Apple reads forums like this. Jobs himself must be aware of the problem. It's so simple too! Why hasn't this been resolved? I need a macbook! The first thing this computer did when I turned it on was give me a BSOD! C'mon Jobs, get on it!!

DISCLAIMER: I am not a crackpot. I like Apple computers. I am not saying here 'omg windoze r0x0rs, osx suX0rs!!!' Flaming not necessary.

edit: Disclaimer added.

 

[Blue Velvet]

After reading all the horror stories people have been having with their Macbooks and Macbook Pros, I decided to do the unthinkable, and order a Dell laptop until Apple gets it together.

Plenty of people have also been satisfied but less vocal. To base a platform-dependent purchasing decision on a handful of complaints yet expect approval for that decision here on MR is a fruitless task, IMHO.

Good luck with your Dell in the meantime. I mean it.

 

[Subiklim]

Plenty of people have also been satisfied but less vocal. To base a platform-dependent purchasing decision on a handful of complaints yet expect approval for that decision here on MR is a fruitless task, IMHO.

Good luck with your Dell in the meantime. I mean it.

I'm not really looking for approval for my purchase here. It would be more understandable if all I had seen in my research was people on this forum or others with problems. That isn't the case. Every Macbook/ MBP that I have seen in the Apple store is nearly untouchable. I haven't heard any noise, but that really isn't a big issue for me. The thing is, is that I can now actually use a laptop as it was intended for. As a laptop. And I don't even have to worry about losing sperm!

Thanks for your luck anyhow, G-d knows I'll need it!

 

[Abulia]

So a slightly warm MB/MBP that could well be fixed via a firmware update or the hassle of dealing with Windows and the BSOD which you know will never get fixed?

I guess I'm missing the point of this thread as well.

In any case, when you only have 5% of the market on a good day, your QA problems aren't as readily visible as Dell, for example. Dell has good reason to keep their QA up to snuff.

So no, I don't excuse Apple for hot and "moo"-ing laptops when every other manufacturer can seem to get it right.

 

[decksnap]

What does the dell look like size-wise? I'm guessing it's a lot thicker? This would simplify a lot of design issues Apple has, but nobody wants a thick notebook.

 

[Blue Velvet]

I'm not really looking for approval for my purchase here.

OK, being absolved then. You felt you had little choice so you got a Dell... that's cool.

 

[Subiklim]

What does the dell look like size-wise? I'm guessing it's a lot thicker? This would simplify a lot of design issues Apple has, but nobody wants a thick notebook.

.20" thicker than a MB

 

[Subiklim]

OK, being absolved then. You felt you had little choice so you got a Dell... that's cool.

Phew. I didn't think this thread would get me blacklisted from MR! I would ship this system right back if that were the case

 

[PeterKG]

Well according to this article, the thermal paste is not the issue....

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/05/23/thermal-paste-question.html?page=1

 

[fowler.]

that's one article among many that do say it's the problem... who to believe, who to believe...

 

[poppe]

Well according to this article, the thermal paste is not the issue....

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/05/23/thermal-paste-question.html?page=1

And this article has been stated to be unreliable because he did not test one computer first then replaced the thermal pace and test again.

No. No. No. He took his laptop replaced the thermal paste and then measured his laptop along with his buddy's laptop. I think there are less thermal paste problems than we think, but bad news always gets the most press. simple fact.

As for the dell what dell is it?

Dell actaully has nice computers... shoot me if you will.

I have a desktop dell and its horrible though. Absolutely positively horrible! I've never seen any blue screen of death on it though and its been two years. Mine just has small quircks and blips. For example PDF's kill this machine... or when you click on an email and it links to open MS outlook...

Being a MS user until when ever i get my new MBP i will say this. Windows machines run great... until you start to put things on them... the minute you start to listen do anything computer related with you computer... your done for...

Now on the flipside the dells i have experience that are good. I have experienced some super stable dells. Ones at the office and at school. The dells never geek out or anything. Most people I know have a great experience with dells also.

Please don't think i'm bashing Apple or saying hey dells are better becuase I wouldn't be on here if that was true. I'm just saying that dell once and awhile does make decent computers, and now that Apple has simliar components compared to high end dells, its time to step up.

What I mean is its getting to the point that the name and the operating system is the only difference between PCs and Macs. Yes its bad to buy Rev A anything. So I just hope Rev B seperates them again.

 

[poppe]

Which Dell did you get?

 

[dongmin]

Every Macbook/ MBP that I have seen in the Apple store is nearly untouchable.

I'm sorry, but that statement is just absurd. Sure, heat sensitivity is subjective, but to say that every apple portable is "untouchable" is about as rational as saying "all PCs are unuseable because of viruses and spyware."

wild exaggerations about hotness of MacBooks + saying how much you like your Dell = troll

 

[poppe]

I'm sorry, but that statement is just absurd. Sure, heat sensitivity is subjective, but to say that every apple portable is "untouchable" is about as rational as saying "all PCs are unuseable because of viruses and spyware."

wild exaggerations about hotness of MacBooks + saying how much you like your Dell = troll

I touched all the 15" and 17" MBP's at my store in Plano, TX and they were super hot. You couldn't leave your hand on there for 10 seconds...

That of course was two or so weeks ago.... so perhaps update was not done to them yet

 

[Max on Macs]

What you have to remember is that this is the first Apple laptop with Intel chips, there are bound to be some problems. That doesn't mean they can ignore them, but when they are fixed I'm sure we'll get repairs/replacements if we call in for them. For now though, I've just been smacking my mac! SmackBook means all the issues so worthwhile, it's amazing!

 

[danny_w]

I touched all the 15" and 17" MBP's at my store in Plano, TX and they were super hot. You couldn't leave your hand on there for 10 seconds...

That of course was two or so weeks ago.... so perhaps update was not done to them yet

Unfortunately, I agree with you. It is a real shame that Apple has allowed these problems out the door, and seems unable or unwilling to fix them. And when every MBP in the store exhibits this heat problem (and I can testify to that at my own local Apple store), it is a real problem, at least in the public eye. I would really like a MB or MBP, but I'm scared off by all of these reported problems. Since I have a Powerbook that exhibits none of these issues (I can use it on my lap for hours at a time with no heat issues - my Gateway at works gets hotter) I think that I should stick with it.

 

[cait-sith]

Okay, the Dell isn't better than the Apple, cause you say when you turned on the Dell you got a BSOD. So, the Dell is not usable.

 

[Subiklim]

Which Dell did you get?

It's the E1405. I got it for under $650. Figure I'll be able to sell it for at least $400, well worth it for the about a year I'll have to wait for a Rev C. Macbook.

wild exaggerations about hotness of MacBooks + saying how much you like your Dell = troll

LOL! Wild exaggerations of my post would make you a troll too! Note, I said 'nearly untouchable (emphasis added). Key word being nearly. Did I say that they were as hot as the depths of hell as you are trying to say? No. But as another user pointed out, there were parts of the system that I couldn't hold my hand down for more than a few seconds without pulling away.

Also, please don't try to make it seem like I said that ALL Apple portables run too hot. I said every one I touched in the store. I've some reports of users that are perfectly happy with their cool, and noise-free macbooks/MBP.

As far as the "how much you like your dell" comment, I don't recall raving about the computer, other than the fact that it runs cool and quite. Notice I said that I got a BSOD, which is obviously frustrating.

As I said earlier in the thread, I'm not trying to start a flame war here. I LIKE Mac. I wish I didn't have to buy a dell. As soon as these issues are worked out, I WILL be buying a portable Mac. I'm not trolling.

 

[Subiklim]

Okay, the Dell isn't better than the Apple, cause you say when you turned on the Dell you got a BSOD. So, the Dell is not usable.

I'm not quite sure I get this post. I never said the Dell was better than the Apple. I said that it exhibits fewer cooling problems than the Apple.

The Dell is usable. Like all Dell computers (or any windows machine for that matter), you have to format it right when you get it to get all the manufacturer's crap off. AOL, Dell's wireless dealie, etc. Putting a fresh copy of Windows on it worked, and I haven't experienced a BSOD.

 

[Earendil]

On average, No, Dell can't.

They do have some nice desktops and laptops. However, and this is just my experience, my Alum G4 powerbook is smaller, quieter, and faster (after a year of the average users use) than just about every Dell laptop I've come across. Par tof that can be blamed on windows, yes, however I wouldn't say that Dell builds better machines.

Out of my Families 6 Apple Computers in the last 2 decades, only 3 have had problems, and they ALL still run.
Macintosh 512k, Flawless (even this one still runs)
Macintosh 120mhz 7600, Flawless
iMac, 233mhz Bondi Blue, flawless (unless you count the CRT failing after 9 years )
Powermac G4 1ghz, defunct Modem that acted weird
Powerbook G4 867mhz Ti, Hinge has broken after 3 heavy years of use.
Powerbook G4 Alum, 1.25gz, Had white spots that were promptly fixed by Apple.

I would never bet on a Rev A powerbook being flawless. Especially if it's using a brand new never before seen processor from a company that has never been worked with before!
That said, I expect Apple to write this wrong relativly quickly, and future Powerbooks will have far far less trouble.

My Take.

~Earendil

 

[Subiklim]

On average, No, Dell can't.

They do have some nice desktops and laptops. However, and this is just my experience, my Alum G4 powerbook is smaller, quieter, and faster (after a year of the average users use) than just about every Dell laptop I've come across. Par tof that can be blamed on windows, yes, however I wouldn't say that Dell builds better machines.
l

Comparing this machine to my Powerbook G4 there is absolutly no comparison. The G4 is the most solid laptop I've ever owned.

 

[matticus008]

Part of the problem is that no one cares what Dell does. They ship lemon after lemon, but their business model is a huge revolving door--they'll replace mostly anything you bought with little hassle because they ship an unbelievable number of computers every day. The media couldn't possibly care less about Dells shipping with problems because it's not a sexy topic.

If Apple ships more than one computer with a given problem, though, the media is all over it, and this being an Apple forum, the complaints come rolling in here. Apple has never replaced the computers like Dell does, preferring to stand by their individual products and repair them on a case-by-case basis (also because they don't have the same volume and supply management--Dell probably gets more coming back in a day than Apple has sales). Apples successes and failures are sexy topics, and that's okay, as long as people remember to take it with a bucket of salt.

People might be willing to go through three Dells to get a working one, but I'd much rather my first PowerBook get repaired, because I don't have to round up accessories, box anything back up, keep track of changing serial numbers, etc. all because of recoverable problems. Obviously some computers will need to be replaced entirely, but where it's not necessary, I'd prefer to keep the first one. You never know what might be wrong with the next one and when Dell will stop cooperating.

 

[vv-tim]

It's the E1405. I got it for under $650. Figure I'll be able to sell it for at least $400, well worth it for the about a year I'll have to wait for a Rev C. Macbook.

Let me say first...

I am now a proud owner of a MacBook Pro running at a nice temperature... sure, it wasn't that way out the door... but it was a nice computer out the door other than the heat issue.

Before I get past the heat issue... I've had 3 laptops prior to this one. First was a Compaq X1000. That thing got just as hot as the MacBook Pro did before I fixed it. It burned my legs. I didn't complain or care. That's the way I figured laptops were. Then came my Vaio A190. It also got pretty hot. Not as hot as the other, but this one was quite chubby as well.

See, the reason people are going crazy is that Apple's fanatics EXPECT more from Apple... and they should. You're paying a premium (although the MacBook is quite a good buy, it's still at a bit of a premium -- $300 or so). The problem is the media coverage its getting... no other computer company gets harassed for all the heating problems and things... so everyone thinks Apple's making bad products... I'd say they've taken a step down from their "excellent" rating, but still are very good.


Now... on to my third laptop. The one you just bought... E1405. I got it during the first E1405 Dell deal for about $740 (w/ 1.83ghz upgrade, 9 cell battery, WXGA+).

The strengths of this laptop? It ran pretty cool. It lasted 7+ hours on lower brightness levels. It was cheap. It was pretty fast.

The weaknesses? Oh my. First off... the screen. That was the WORST laptop screen I'd ever seen before (and from the SlickDeals forums, it was a common problem). The backlight wasn't uniform, there were out-of-the-box dithering problems with the video drivers, and most of all... it was SO FREAKING DIM. The brightess just couldn't be pushed to an acceptable level. If there was any respectable ammount of light in the room, you were screwed. The other minor weakness was the keyboard... which wasn't great. It was pretty hard to type on. I figure if the MacBook can have a hot keyboard, it's no excuse.

If the E1405 had a decent screen on it... it would be a great buy for anyone without the extra cash to shell out for a mac. However, with the current Samsung and Quanta screens they're using for it... just get a MacBook (or Pro! <3) and fix the thermal paste.

 

[California]

Apple laptop designs are very cramped for electronics. Therefore, when you have even a slight heat paste issue, it revs up the heat. Dell's fat brick computers -- they look like they were designed by out of work Soviet era Russkies -- don't have those sort of compactness issues.

 

[Subiklim]

The problem is the media coverage its getting... no other computer company gets harassed for all the heating problems and things... so everyone thinks Apple's making bad products... I'd say they've taken a step down from their "excellent" rating, but still are very good.

The weaknesses? Oh my. First off... the screen. That was the WORST laptop screen I'd ever seen before (and from the SlickDeals forums, it was a common problem).

If the E1405 had a decent screen on it... it would be a great buy for anyone without the extra cash to shell out for a mac. However, with the current Samsung and Quanta screens they're using for it... just get a MacBook (or Pro! <3) and fix the thermal paste.

The thing is, I'm not basing this on just media coverage. I'm basing it also on my first hand experience.

Not sure which screen I have (It's glossy, so maybe the truelife?) but I think it's a great screen. High res, pretty bright, etc. This of course is coming from the Powerbook 12" which despite being the best laptop I've ever owned, it had a pretty dismal screen.