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Dell XPS 1530- Dell Calls out Apple

Guys!! THIS IS NOT A DELL VS APPLE THREAD!!! What it was meant to be was the beginning of a discussion of things currently wrong w/ Apple Products. What I meant to convey with this thread was that other companies are catching up with the innovative features (and even surpasing) Apple's old innovative technology. I wanted to stimulate discussion and thought about things Apple could do to improve its product offering and make the next big offering that would put it above the competition.

As it goes for pice points and dell's bloatware philosophy, I agree it is out of hand. However, Apple has its own bloatware (it just happens to be its own software with a few added items). Besides, it is no hidden fact that Apple makes a large overhead on their products, be it iPod or Laptop.

I want this to be a discussion, not a fight. We all have a passion for Apple, that is why we are here, but if we follow blindly we loose our power as consumers. Consumer wants, desires and complaints can bring a company to innovate (not that Apple isn't innovative, but its macbook pro series could use a makeover)

Hell, even if you don't believe all that, a good clean discussion never hurts. We all love technology, lets talk about it not fight about it.

iPhil said:
I don't even see the option of SSD drive on the 'high' model of the m1530..

nor the 320GB drive option ..
Click to expand...

Also, Sorry about this, this information was gained from Engadget or Gizmodo (can't remember which one as I check them constantly) but I believe they are "to be added options" I apologize for this mishap as I try to report/discuss accurate information.

-Josh :apple:

:apple:
FoxyKaye said:
This is a duplicate thread - please see the original here: http://www.avp-r.com/
Click to expand...

By the way, that was the funniest thing I have seen yet on this forum. Keep up the sense of humor and sarcasm, not the arguing.

-Josh
 
The design is a step in the right direction for Dell, it is good to see that they are finally willing to make something other than 'beige boxes' (yes I know that they have not used beige in years, it is a freaking expression). I wish they would take a few more risks with this, their 'pro-sumer' line (I know that isn't a word). Business users will still want to go for the Latitudes, maybe the Vostros, but they will more than likely not consider teh XPS, so that will be people that want more 'oomph' than the Inspirons, or perhaps more flair than the Latitudes.

I think it is a stupid design decision to put the headphone jacks on the front, much like after using my MacBook, I think having the ports on more than 1 side (unless absolutely necessary) is also a silly idea. And as a brief aside, did anyone else chuckle at the fact that the side with all the ports is the nautically port side?

I like the overall look of the new XPS1530, glad to see they are jumping further onto the LED bandwagon (XPS1330 has it, I know), but ultimately, I think that the design still looks a little thrown together, chintsy if you will.

Honestly, right now, next to Apple, I like HP's designs the most right now. But, even if I were to switch to Windows, I might still buy Apple since i love the MacBook keyboard and trackpad too much.
 
Josheua said:
Guys!! THIS IS NOT A DELL VS APPLE THREAD!!! What it was meant to be was the beginning of a discussion of things currently wrong w/ Apple Products. What I meant to convey with this thread was that other companies are catching up with the innovative features (and even surpasing) Apple's old innovative technology. I wanted to stimulate discussion and thought about things Apple could do to improve its product offering and make the next big offering that would put it above the competition.

As it goes for pice points and dell's bloatware philosophy, I agree it is out of hand. However, Apple has its own bloatware (it just happens to be its own software with a few added items). Besides, it is no hidden fact that Apple makes a large overhead on their products, be it iPod or Laptop.

I want this to be a discussion, not a fight. We all have a passion for Apple, that is why we are here, but if we follow blindly we loose our power as consumers. Consumer wants, desires and complaints can bring a company to innovate (not that Apple isn't innovative, but its macbook pro series could use a makeover)
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone has really thought you were trolling or trying to incite an argument here (as I'm sure you would've have been called one by this point). However, you can't discuss things wrong with Apple by showing us another company's product and NOT expect people to compare.

Personally, all the cons you've listed for the MBP are all livable.

- If a 64GB SSD is the best I can get right now, I'll pass (this seems especially rediculous since XPS is Dell's media/entertainment line. Ipods (and Zunes) are 80 GB standard now, and I won't buy a computer with a smaller HD than my iPod.

- I don't want an HD drive until there's an industry standard. If they want to stick one on the Mac Pro's, fine. But I don't want to buy a Blu-Ray computer and have HD-DVD win the war 2 months later.

- RAM Upgrades... okay you got me there. But anyone who actually needs 4 GBs of RAM probably knows where to get it cheaper (and RAM installation is simple).

- Is the Dell HD user replaceable?

-No comment on the Wireless networking options as its not something I personally need.

- And again, putting a low-resolution monitor on a Blu-Ray capable computer is the dumbest cost-cutting move I've ever seen.

Before moving to Apple, I was a Dell user and loved them. And I think they do some things better (like actually having more product ranges than simply "consumer" and "pro"). But i can't really consider the 1530 to be the a warning shot to my MBP. This reminds me of when the 1330 was "announced" and everyone freaked out that Apple hadn't announced a SR laptop yet (but still beat Dell to the market with one in the end).
 
Any one know which Clevo product Dell's m1530 is a rebranding of?
 
Josheua said:
Hey, on a 15.4 inch notebook I expect more. I think its a fair con esepcially on something with a blu-ray drive.

-Josh :apple:
Click to expand...

With Blu-Ray, (while I have one in my PS3 - and do like it for various reasons over HDDVD) - seems too early in the game to integrate within any computer. Put it into perspective of the purchaser - if you bought a new iMac, and spend the dough on a Blu-Ray-Drive, I think you'd be a tad miffed if Blu-Ray got dropped in favor of HDDVD 8 months later.

Remember when Mini-Discs were supposed to be the dogs bollocks? Had many advantages over CDs - but never took off. Imagine the level of suck, should you have bought a new PC with a MDR drive - only to not have any media available for it.

On the LCD - that is a very reasonable request I'd say. I have a nearly 4 year old Dell Inspiron 8600 with a 15.4" LCD @ 1680 x 1050. To rub a little more salt into your wound - there was an option for a 1920 x 1200 15.4" display. (I wanted the Nvidia card which only supported 1680 x 1050 at the time) Juicy Goodness here: http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/dell-inspiron-8600-series/4505-3121_7-30521464.html

Certainly seems strange, giving the fact in 4 years we haven't really done much apart from throwing in LEDs for a backlight...
 
Josheua said:
Guys!! THIS IS NOT A DELL VS APPLE THREAD!!! What it was meant to be was the beginning of a discussion of things currently wrong w/ Apple Products. What I meant to convey with this thread was that other companies are catching up with the innovative features (and even surpasing) Apple's old innovative technology. I wanted to stimulate discussion and thought about things Apple could do to improve its product offering and make the next big offering that would put it above the competition.

As it goes for pice points and dell's bloatware philosophy, I agree it is out of hand. However, Apple has its own bloatware (it just happens to be its own software with a few added items). Besides, it is no hidden fact that Apple makes a large overhead on their products, be it iPod or Laptop.

I want this to be a discussion, not a fight. We all have a passion for Apple, that is why we are here, but if we follow blindly we loose our power as consumers. Consumer wants, desires and complaints can bring a company to innovate (not that Apple isn't innovative, but its macbook pro series could use a makeover)

Hell, even if you don't believe all that, a good clean discussion never hurts. We all love technology, lets talk about it not fight about it.



Also, Sorry about this, this information was gained from Engadget or Gizmodo (can't remember which one as I check them constantly) but I believe they are "to be added options" I apologize for this mishap as I try to report/discuss accurate information.

-Josh :apple:
Click to expand...

The only 'innovative' features on that list are the small SSD drive and poor resolution LED screen. Which just goes to show that, while they are innovative in of themselves, Dell has poorly implemented them. Which is kind of worse than sticking with older, more reliable technology in a package that works well. This is what Apple does most of the time. So in my opinion, Dell is NOT catching up to Apple in the innovation department. Its like they are throwing new tech into their computers with no regard to proper integration. Its all willy-nilly. And we all know where that leads... a pregnant nilly.
 
1200x800? why, in a 15.4" notebook? Weird...

ANyways you make some good points but when you point out the potential defects of the dell you are being very biased, almost coming off as if all mbps are perfect. Go read the forums...there are yellow screens, messed up latches, buzzing machine, etc. Dell's QC is no better or worse than Apples.
 
You have to realize that you are comparing this new XPS with Apple technology that was released almost 6 months ago so all this talk about bluray and solid state storage is not really fair. The screen resolution is terrible and there is no LED option. It also looks like the vram is DDR2 (cheaper but also slower)!
Until these "issues" are resolved, this laptop is not a serious contender to the MBP!
 
Wow that is the problem with mac users, they are just so biased.
Welcome to a reality check.

Macbook Pro
Pro's
Better reliability over Dell. (You just don't remember your macbook problems, decolorations, random shutouts etc. Every company has problems and before using some information present facts, this is only your opinion.)

Dell XPS
Pro's
- How about better price?
-More options for video games.

Cons


* Windows Vista Only (No Downgrade Option). I give you that, but Mac's don't offer downgrade either
* 1280X800 Resolution (not acceptable for a HD capable laptop) It will change in early 2008, just wait 3 or 4 months
* "Busy" Design may annoy those attracted to minamalist Apple products Totally subjective, is not a con is a difference for different taste
* Possible Heavy Screen Flexing (as seen in 1330)It's just a possibility, why include it already
* Possible Exploding Battery Syndrome? Macbooks also

Don't take me wrong, macbook pro is a great machine but if you want to compare be fair please.
 
XPS IS a Serious CONTENDER

Sorry for double post. First it is a serious contender because many pc users seek a machine with good looks and a good performance but needs windows. A mac can do this but you must add a cost for the OS and more hazzle. The cost is also an important point (will present proof briefly).

But before @Prism who posted:
You have to realize that you are comparing this new XPS with Apple technology that was released almost 6 months ago so all this talk about bluray and solid state storage is not really fair.(But it presented the SAME TECHNOLOGY at a better price The screen resolution is terrible and there is no LED option. Will change soon, promiseIt also looks like the vram is DDR2 (cheaper but also slower)!There is no proven data but I understand it's ddr3 so it will be the same as the macbook
Until these "issues" are resolved, this laptop is not a serious contender to the MBP!So after they are solved (which is what most likely will occur) will you be afraid?


Direct Price comparison

Macbook Pro
$1,999.00
5.4 Pounds
15.4 inches (1440x900)
2.2GHz Core 2 Duo
2 GB 667 DDR2 2X1GB
120GB @5400 rpm
Superdrive(DVD writer)
8600MGT 128MB
Bluetooth
Wireless N
iSight

Dell XPS 1530 (as configured in nov 28)
$1,969.00
5.78 Pounds
15.4 inches (1280x800) (will change)
2.4GHz Core 2 Duo
3 GB 667 DDR2
200GB @7200 rpm
DVD writer-slotdrive(as mac's)
8600MGT 256MB
Bluetooth
Wireless N
2MP webcam

So in the same price every main component is better in Dell's. Except for teh screen. When it come out the upgrade may be $150-$200 tops, taking the cpu a notch down will do it and mantain the price. So for these reasons I believe it's a strong contender for the Macbook Pro
 
panameno said:
Sorry for double post. First it is a serious contender because many pc users seek a machine with good looks and a good performance but needs windows. A mac can do this but you must add a cost for the OS and more hazzle. The cost is also an important point (will present proof briefly).

But before @Prism who posted:
You have to realize that you are comparing this new XPS with Apple technology that was released almost 6 months ago so all this talk about bluray and solid state storage is not really fair.(But it presented the SAME TECHNOLOGY at a better price The screen resolution is terrible and there is no LED option. Will change soon, promiseIt also looks like the vram is DDR2 (cheaper but also slower)!There is no proven data but I understand it's ddr3 so it will be the same as the macbook
Until these "issues" are resolved, this laptop is not a serious contender to the MBP!So after they are solved (which is what most likely will occur) will you be afraid?
Click to expand...

You keep on mentioning that the drawbacks such as no led, crappy resolution etc will be resolved soon. Why not now? These things should be available now, just like bluray and all the other technologies. When they will be available, I will grant you the comparison but for someone who needs to make up his or her mind right now, there are significant drawbacks on the Dell.
As for the DDR2, if you click on the descriptive button for gfx options (at least in the Swiss site) it states DDR2 for the vram so unless it is an error, I assume that DDR2 is what you get!
Also in your price comparison you conveniantly leave out LED and backlit keyboard for the MBP. You also don't mention that the VRAM in the MBP is DDR3 and, at best, it is unknown for the Dell!
 
I don't own a Macbook or MBP - (but have used a few) however I do own a Dell laptop. I can say, beyond any shadow of a doubt - the Apple laptops "feel" a hell of a lot better. The construction seems very rigid, the keyboard has a nice feel, the optical drive is nice and secure.

For some reason - on any Dell laptop (any of them) made after 2003-ish - all the keyboards "flex" and bend when typing on them. Keys are soft and muddy feeling. Optical drive feels like it is about to fall out. The whole laptop will bend, flex and creek as it's handled.

While I'm sure a "flexible" laptop will handle a drop a lot better - with no intentions of dropping one in the first place - I'll take the rigid one and suffer any consequences from my own stupidity, on my own.

Finally - pretend you have a problem with your laptop - and need some help fixing it. In Apple vs Dell -- See who will get their problem solved FIRST with the least amount of frustration. I called Apple once with a question on my iMac. I got a native english speaking individual, who answered my question immediately. I think the phone call was three minutes in its entirety.

The worst thing I've ever had to deal with at Dell is their "tech support". And this is from multiple, multiple situations. (not a one-off dummy run-in) I even tried their ONLINE support - get this, true story - TYPING to a tech support agent - IN A CHAT WINDOW - who is aware I'm typing FROM the Dell I was having trouble with. They tell me to wipe the ethernet and 802.11 drivers from the machine. I said - well, wouldn't that end our connection? I'm typing from this computer, perhaps I should save the new drivers to disk firs?. "no, you're just going to update the drivers after removing the old ones" Soooo, I did as he/she said - and guess what? Stuck w/ a laptop with no internet connection and had to extract my network drivers from a CD burned by another computer.... Fun.
 
Well you get what you pay for with Dell you can go cheaper and go more up market. The XPS products are better made than some of the other Dell lines and they have better support cover as well. They also use slot loading drives in those models.
The MBP keyboard is nice and i like the keyboard on the Dell XPS M1330 that i am using right now. The MB keyboard however i am not really keen on. With K/B's it all a matter of preference really. You will see some reviews were the XPS M1330 is being praised but not everybody is going to have the same feedback on it.
 
I was thinking this would be cool, then... the screen resolution. Why in heck would I want a 15" notebook with 1280 x 800? Until that's updated it's out of consideration - I was hoping for the old 17" MBP res option on a 15" screen.
 
I'm find it interesting that everyone defending the Dell's low resolution monitor is saying "that will change, don't worry" when the OP's original argument was that the MBP needs to be updated because of the Dell's current config.

Not disputing the fact that any MBP updates are good updates, but it seems ridiculous to compare the current MBP to a Dell config that, currently, does not exist.
 
Eidorian said:
I haven't known Dell to recently add-on anything more then Adobe Acrobat Reader and Google Desktop.
Click to expand...


The two or three clients machines that I've worked on had less bloat on that ones in the past, but there was still 8-10software items on each that had to be uninstalled.

Thank god the days of having to uninstall AOL are over!
 
No matter how you spin it, the cost in terms of down grading to Windows from Mac OS X certainly doesn't get off set by any of the perceived 'hardware superiority'. If you could run Mac OS X on the machine, you might have a reason to purchase it, otherwise, Windows is too painful.
 
Josheua said:
However, many looking to pay the premium for a good computer may give dell a second look before making the leap to Cupertino.
Click to expand...

Josheua, this is probably not the best forum to be laying down your Dell Astroturf. You would gain more traction on some other forums.

By the way, how much is Dell paying for Astroturfing these days?

Has anyone else noticed the rash of newbies that have joined in November and are spreading the non-Apple gospel here on MacRumors?
 
No matter how you twist or turn it, competition is a good thing! Hope it puts more pressure on blowing us away with a new Macbook pro in January :D
 
Guys, I base all my statements off information I have gleaned from other sources. About reliability between Dell and Apple, I got that information from recent consumer reports which put Apple at the top of reliability and Dell middle of the pack. As for "laying down Dell astroturf" I am trying to promote discussion not support for dell. Apple fans need to realize that Apple is starting to get to the point they have to play catch up. I have no problem admitting I am an Apple fan but for the love of God, isn't it good sometimes to look at the fact that there is some serious competition out there. Apple isn't flawless, its great, but I'll be damned if I say they are perfect. I love them, but companies are starting to catch up. Its important to make the point that Apple needs to really be innovative with their next release to keep them ahed of the design curve.

With my comment about the minimalist design con, I was writing it for Apple fans who like minimilist design, so I made that comment for you guys, not something that would be included on a main line review.

Do I agree that a TRUE review needs to wait till products get in users hands, yes. Again, my point was to incite discussion about upcomming technology in a civilized manner and how companies are producing products that compete with Apple. This is my OPINION!!!!! THIS WHOLE FORUM IS ABOUT OPINIONS!!!

We are all Apple Fans (to some degree) here. So why argue, we all agree that in the end Apple is who we choose, but Discussion and comparisons never hurt.

-Josh :apple:
 
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