Doesn't matter how much time you spent on it. Lots of people have side gigs, sometimes they make even more money than the day job.
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Developers Now Required to Share Phone Number and Address on EU App Store to Meet 'Trader' Requirement
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I can see the commission or regulatory agency, or even Apple needing the physical address, but not the general public. Absolutely no need for the public to know the physical address of a developer, or Trader if you will.
Let me give an example. I am a realtor in North Carolina. I have my own real estate and property management company here that I run from home. I do not have to provide my physical address to the public, or even provide it in ads, business correspondence, or my business cards. The only people I have to provide my physical address to are the govt. and real estate agencies who regulate and manage real estate practices. My wife sells insurance and is also a mortgage broker on the side, and the same applies to her. So, I don't get this rule for developers.
Now, all that said, we do have business emails, web pages with contact forms, and business phone numbers. If a customer has a problem with me that they don't feel is being addressed properly, they complain to the Real Estate Commission, and they come full barrels after me.
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"Simply."
Since the dawn of the iOS Developer Program, you sign up either as a company or as an individual. You'd think pointing to the only person making an app and confidently referring to them as "not you" should quietly raise some manner of flag in one's head.
Apple has always required developers selling through the App Store to provide a URL as a point of contact for support.
If you're simply asserting that systems should not exist to encourage single-person development teams to develop and publish apps – let alone compete in app marketplaces – then I suppose you could just say that plainly.
Sounds like you’re the one that needs to think. Do you think every indie is a business? Plenty of people sell under their own name, why should they have to put their personal details up just to sell something in the App Store especially in this day and age? If you sell something on eBay would you want all your personal details up there?
Most small developers work from their home so business and home address/phone coincide.
I personally have no problem sharing this with customers, but who will prevent scammers from browsing the App Store and selling your home data to all those phishing companies around?
This is ridiculous and I doubt those clowns at the EU parliament actually thought about small developers when they passed this ********. The commission has gone rogue and nowadays basically works nonstop to pass surveillance laws.
But the worst thing is people defending it. If the EU passes some law to kill puppies there will be fanboys defending it. I suspect none of those people live around here.
But the worst thing is people defending it. If the EU passes some law to kill puppies there will be fanboys defending it. I suspect none of those people live around here.
I wonder why it is completely impossible to contact Meta (FB) customer service in any meaningful way, though, and this is just one example. So many developers have a contact form on their website and they just don’t reply. Will an address and a phone number change things? Not sure…
This is not about being a business; it's about being a trader under EU rules, so please stop talking about businesses.
As I've mentioned in another thread, it is not as cheap as you think for an indie developer to get a second phone line, contact address (even a virtual address), or a PO Box.
Besides, we don’t actually sell to a customer. The customer buys from Apple, not us. There is no direct contract between us and the customer. Apple handle all that for us, and they handle refunds etc., too. If we had to handle that all ourselves we would have to be registered in every EU country. You think we have the funds for local phone lines and contact addresses in 27 countries?
Even if we put a phone number on there, are we expected to be able to receive phone calls from potential customers across different countries and time zones, and different languages?
We already provide a support url that anyone can access. Most of us have a contact form on there where someone can contact us. (I've heard the argument that some support urls no longer work, but that would be the minority, and Apple could easily check those urls work, and contact any developer whose url fails a simple ping.)
Our trader contact information is up for display to anyone whether they’ve bought our apps or not. A wonderful source of free information for scammers and bots.
Is everyone on eBay a trader now? If I sell an old camera the only person who sees my address is the buyer. There is no reason for anyone to see my address and phone number unless we enter into a contract.
This is overkill from the EU, and clearly hasn't been thought through properly.
As I've mentioned in another thread, it is not as cheap as you think for an indie developer to get a second phone line, contact address (even a virtual address), or a PO Box.
Besides, we don’t actually sell to a customer. The customer buys from Apple, not us. There is no direct contract between us and the customer. Apple handle all that for us, and they handle refunds etc., too. If we had to handle that all ourselves we would have to be registered in every EU country. You think we have the funds for local phone lines and contact addresses in 27 countries?
Even if we put a phone number on there, are we expected to be able to receive phone calls from potential customers across different countries and time zones, and different languages?
We already provide a support url that anyone can access. Most of us have a contact form on there where someone can contact us. (I've heard the argument that some support urls no longer work, but that would be the minority, and Apple could easily check those urls work, and contact any developer whose url fails a simple ping.)
Our trader contact information is up for display to anyone whether they’ve bought our apps or not. A wonderful source of free information for scammers and bots.
Is everyone on eBay a trader now? If I sell an old camera the only person who sees my address is the buyer. There is no reason for anyone to see my address and phone number unless we enter into a contract.
This is overkill from the EU, and clearly hasn't been thought through properly.
Is the EU going to pay for the PO Box address? It is irrelevant that it may be a “small expense”. It is not something one should be obliged to do.
I have a free app on the US Google Play store. Recently they require ID (fine) and a verified phone number from all devs, and I haven't submitted one yet because I can't find a definitive answer whether they're going to put my phone number in the Play store. That would be an absolute no no
Based on Apple's documentation, it seems as if you generate any income from selling apps in the EU, you are a trader.
The amount of Apps available in the EU store will likely greatly decrease on February 17, 2025.
The amount of Apps available in the EU store will likely greatly decrease on February 17, 2025.
Good move, if you make a product take money for it then there need to be accountability if they sell your data, or rip you off and vanish into the night.
Apple today reminded developers that the EU trader requirement in the European Union is now being enforced. Developers who distribute apps in the EU will now need to share information that includes address, phone number, and email address on the EU App Store.
Submitting updates for apps on the App Store in the European Union now requires trader information that's added via App Store Connect, with those details shared on each developer's App Store page. App updates can no longer be submitted without trader information, and starting on February 17, 2025, apps that do not have a trader status set will be removed from the App Store in the EU until trader status is provided and verified.
The Digital Services Act (DSA) in the European Union requires Apple to verify and display trader contact information for all "traders" who are distributing apps on the App Store in the European Union. Developers who make money from the App Store through either an upfront purchase price or through in-app purchases are considered traders, regardless of size.
Contact information for each developer that is considered a trader will be publicly available, and there will undoubtedly be some developers that are unhappy with the requirement. Independent developers and small companies may not have dedicated business addresses and phone numbers to provide, and will likely be reluctant to provide their personal contact information.
Apple warned developers about the upcoming trader status requirement earlier this year. As of now, trader information has to be provided before an app can be submitted for review.
Displaying trader status is a Digital Services Act requirement in the European Union, which means Apple has to implement the feature. Developer contact information will be displayed on the App Store product page when an app is distributed in any of the 27 territories in the EU.
More information on determining who is a trader and who needs to provide contact details can be found on Apple's website.
Article Link: Developers Now Required to Share Phone Number and Address on EU App Store to Meet 'Trader' Requirement
Not really? That seems to be a guide on internet influencers advertising on their platforms.
It's an example. Obviously people in different fields with different hobbies are different cases.
I’ve had to go through this process. I’m a one-person app business.
I have no problem giving my (home) address. It’s already in the public domain. No-one is going to come and knock on my door, and I wouldn’t mind if they did. I have nothing to hide. (BTW, I‘m curious to hear exactly why others want to keep this private.)
Phone number is more difficult. I don’t have a business phone number. My reading of the actual legislation is that Apple has to collect this data “where applicable”. Not having a business phone number surely means I should be able to say “none” in that box. But Apple insist on a phone number. I think this is Apple’s error. So, I could put my personal phone number there. I wouldn’t really mind doing that - if anyone ever did phone, I’d just hang up like I do for spam calls - except for one thing. My one problem would be middle-of-the-night calls from people who don’t know what timezone I’m in. (I ought to be in range to hear my phone at night for personal reasons.)
So I decided that I’d try to set up a virtual phone number that would, for example, say “office hours are 11.30 to 11.45 every third Tuesday” or take a message. But, having set that up, Apple’s verification system didn’t work with it. It’s supposed to read out a code that I then type in to the website for verification - but instead it just hangs up. (Yes, I filed a bug).
In the end, I got myself a “burner phone”, used it once to get the verification code, then turned it off and put it in a drawer.
It has been a frustrating experience. It is tempting to say “no thanks” and stop EU sales, just to save the effort of the phone thing. In my case, EU sales are a small fraction of the total because my apps are geographically specific. Most developers will not be in that position.
I have no problem giving my (home) address. It’s already in the public domain. No-one is going to come and knock on my door, and I wouldn’t mind if they did. I have nothing to hide. (BTW, I‘m curious to hear exactly why others want to keep this private.)
Phone number is more difficult. I don’t have a business phone number. My reading of the actual legislation is that Apple has to collect this data “where applicable”. Not having a business phone number surely means I should be able to say “none” in that box. But Apple insist on a phone number. I think this is Apple’s error. So, I could put my personal phone number there. I wouldn’t really mind doing that - if anyone ever did phone, I’d just hang up like I do for spam calls - except for one thing. My one problem would be middle-of-the-night calls from people who don’t know what timezone I’m in. (I ought to be in range to hear my phone at night for personal reasons.)
So I decided that I’d try to set up a virtual phone number that would, for example, say “office hours are 11.30 to 11.45 every third Tuesday” or take a message. But, having set that up, Apple’s verification system didn’t work with it. It’s supposed to read out a code that I then type in to the website for verification - but instead it just hangs up. (Yes, I filed a bug).
In the end, I got myself a “burner phone”, used it once to get the verification code, then turned it off and put it in a drawer.
It has been a frustrating experience. It is tempting to say “no thanks” and stop EU sales, just to save the effort of the phone thing. In my case, EU sales are a small fraction of the total because my apps are geographically specific. Most developers will not be in that position.
In Europe, it's not how you're legally organised but your activity which determines if you're a business or not.
Millions of people are the European equivalent to sole proprietorships. They're still considered a business since they engage in commercial activities.
What user has a problem with an app and then wants to resolve it via a phone call? It makes no sense and certainly doesn't scale. Requiring developers to provide an email contact or some kind of in-app feedback form makes a lot more sense but I've never heard of a developer that doesn't already do this.
Especially when a lot of banks still use SMS 2fa for authentication, posting your phone number online is just asking for trouble. The only safe way to do this would be to get a new phone line. Most devs don't make much money on apps to begin with so it would make more sense for most of them to just stop selling in the EU.
Sure, I agree.
If XYZ doesn't like ABC, they should just stop. This also applies to consumers and developers who don't like what Apple is doing. Instead of complaining, they should just stop buying/developing for iPhones. They should stop complaining to regulators where they have to create new laws, like the DMA.
It's a 2 way street. Apple should leave and consumers/developers should leave. Apple shouldn't be forced to allow side loading because Epic complained for example.
it's additional costs onto an indie developer for very little purpose. no one in EU is going to send snail mail to USA developer. it's also not feasible to contact via phone. it's faster to contact via email.
foreign developers should be exempt.
The EU is an authoritarian ******** in a freefall to its inevitable end.