Did anyone buy an M1 Max and regret not getting the Ultra?

[Sharky II]

Hi,

Mainly a Logic Pro user here, with huge projects @ 24/96KHz, lots of audio and some Kontakt instruments, often hundreds of tracks, lots of tape emulation, flex time/pitch and a 'live', full mastering chain. My projects are much bigger than most, and I do this all day, every day.

I'm coming from a 5,1 Mac Pro 12x 3.46GHz, 48GB RAM, AMD rx580 8GB, running Big Sur (via OpenCore).

I do also use FCPX and Capture One 'professionally' (meaning to generate income), but I have gotten by OK with the above system (merging RAW photos into HDR in Capture One is a bit tedious, but I don't do it that often). It's Logic that I use most of the time, for many hours a day, and it's so tedious having to wait 3 seconds for the song to play back after pressing the space bar, towards at the end of a mix. It's driving me insane - both the track count, but also the responsiveness (or lack thereof). Everything is running a second or two behind my clicks, once the project starts getting busy.

I'm trying to afford a base Ultra, but it's very expensive. I'm wondering if the Max would be enough 'for now'. There are a couple of Logic benchmarks to go off, but they aren't very realistic and in fact, the jump from my machine to the M1 Max isn't as big as I'd hoped. I want the power of the Ultra, but I have no real experience on the jump from my computer to an M1 Max (or any M1).

So my question is - has anyone purchased an M1 Max and regretted it, or realised that they actually needed more power?

Thanks!

 

[Random_Matt]

Nope, because it is for a very small minority of people. Saying that, so is the M1 Max which I do not regret purchasing.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Maybe ask your local Apple Store if you could bring in a personal project and test it out for a few minutes on one of their store models? I assume they only have the Max on display.

 

[Sharky II]

Thanks - unfortunately there are so many 3rd party plugins that it wouldn't be very easy to quickly test out. I'd probably have to buy one to test and send it back if it doesn't work out.

I wish there were a middle of the range, £3k, 15-core version!

 

[F-Train]

You sound like a good candidate for buying a Max and returning it if it doesn't work out. By the time that you receive, and would be in a position to return, a Max, build times for an Ultra should be much reduced. The new Mac Pro may also be launched by then.

Have you looked at YouTube videos that test the M1 Max 16" and 14" MacBook Pros with Logic? Because the MacBooks have been available since October, this significantly increases the number of available videos that talk about the Max chip and Logic. In theory, the laptops may perform worse than the Mac Studio due to laptop throttling, but having watched most of those reviews I don't think that throttling had a bearing on Logic performance.

If you haven't already, you could also check out discussions about the Studio Max and Ultra, and the two MacBook Pro Maxes, on VI Control, GearSpace, etc.

 

[velocityg4]

What's your CPU and GPU load currently?

If you're saturating all CPU cores or maxing out the GPU regularly. You should benefit from the Ultra. If you're rarely making use of your GPU or only using up a few cores. You likely won't benefit from the Ultra.

Assuming all your software is up to date. As new versions may make better usage of multiple cores or offload more to a GPU than older versions.

 

[F-Train]

What's your CPU and GPU load currently?

If you're saturating all CPU cores or maxing out the GPU regularly. You should benefit from the Ultra. If you're rarely making use of your GPU or only using up a few cores. You likely won't benefit from the Ultra.

Assuming all your software is up to date. As new versions may make better usage of multiple cores or offload more to a GPU than older versions.

Logic is about CPU and RAM.

 

[izzle22]

No. I do not regret getting the M1 Max and not the Ultra. I really don't even need or utilize the power of the Max. Just wanted it more for longevity and having the power "just in case"

That said I do not have a professional use and am really not that much of a power-user. I could have gotten away with with a Mini with a large ssd. But coming from a MacBook pro I needed/wanted something a bit more robust.

I am glad I upgraded to the 1TB SSD.

 

[Crispe]

I don't necessarily regret getting the Max over the Ultra but I do regret getting the baseline Max instead of customising it up to the 32c and getting a better hard drive (only model I could get at short notice). The Max CPU is plenty quick.

 

[lcubed]

no regrets. skipped over the max straight to the ultra

 

[Sharky II]

What's your CPU and GPU load currently?

I'm maxing out all cores, getting glitches and constant system overloads, having to freeze/bounce down tracks, spinning beachball - and that's on 44.1/48KHz mixes. I have 96KHz projects that are really frustrating to work on.

I also often bounce projects in realtime as I use some outboard gear and often have to re-bounce because there's a pop/glitch - a complete waste of time.

As I mentioned though, it's not just raw power - the system is so laggy and unresponsive towards the end of a mix there is quite literally a 3+ second delay from when I press play to the song playing back - I'm not exaggerating. Clicks are lagging a second or two behind too, once there's a lot going on. I kind of got used to it.... but I hear that even when the ARM chips are being pushed they still are responsive (probably due to the efficiency cores).

It's a frustrating nightmare (1st world problems etc) at the moment.

I don't necessarily regret getting the Max over the Ultra but I do regret getting the baseline Max instead of customising it up to the 32c and getting a better hard drive (only model I could get at short notice). The Max CPU is plenty quick.

That's interesting to hear. Part of me thinks 'if I'm gonna go for the cheaper option, keep it cheap and upgrade again sooner'. Once I spec up the Max to £2800 (32-core, 1TB, 64GB), it doesn't seem like such a great deal vs the £4000.

Yes, a £1200 difference is a lot, but @ £2800 somehow it doesn't feel like such a 'bargain' anymore. Maybe that's just me!

So, one could get the cheaper £2k machine and swap it out in ~3 years rather than 6+ years that the Ultra 'should' last. Same difference money wise, but at least you're up and working on a new computer 'today' rather than having to stretch yourself financially for the £4k machine, in the middle of a huge cost of living crisis (as a self-employed professional). That's my personal circumstance, though, obviously.

Logic Pro is one of the few applications that actually will give you 2x the performance (well, total number of plugins) vs the Max. Yes, single core speed is not increased on the Ultra, but I really don't want to get the Max, only to find that my 44.1KHz projects that were maxing out are running at, say, 50% overall CPU. Now bump that project to 96khz and you're back up to (near) maxing out again...

Most people in reviews/YouTube etc aren't working on 96KHz projects, which usually doubles CPU usage of every project (at least). So when I see YouTubers playing a big project on their M1 Max and it's at ~50% CPU utilisating - great - now run it at 96KHz and see what happens....

Anyway, apologies for waffling - I suppose this thread is a bit of self indulgence to help me figure out what makes sense for me power-wise and financially. The Ultra being so delayed is giving me time to get things in order, so there's that...

That's why I was curious if anybody got the Max and then realised it wasn't enough...

Cheers!

 

[Sharky II]

You sound like a good candidate for buying a Max and returning it if it doesn't work out. By the time that you receive, and would be in a position to return, a Max, build times for an Ultra should be much reduced. The new Mac Pro may also be launched by then.

Have you looked at YouTube videos that test the M1 Max 16" and 14" MacBook Pros with Logic? Because the MacBooks have been available since October, this significantly increases the number of available videos that talk about the Max chip and Logic. In theory, the laptops may perform worse than the Mac Studio due to laptop throttling, but having watched most of those reviews I don't think that throttling had a bearing on Logic performance.

If you haven't already, you could also check out discussions about the Studio Max and Ultra, and the two MacBook Pro Maxes, on VI Control, GearSpace, etc.

Yes, I've done all that, although VI-Control is a good shout too. I've wasted so much time on forums, watching every video I can! Maybe if I was doing work instead of watching (or searching for) reviews I could more easily afford the Ultra

 

[Wando64]

As I mentioned though, it's not just raw power - the system is so laggy and unresponsive towards the end of a mix there is quite literally a 3+ second delay from when I press play to the song playing back - I'm not exaggerating. Clicks are lagging a second or two behind too, once there's a lot going on.

I get the Logic system overloads, but I am very confused by the lagging you are describing.
These should just not happen. No matter how large your projects are, when the project is not playing the CPU should be idle.
If the problem is caused by the RAM maxing out, you should be able to see this very easily from the Activity Monitor.

Sounds like you might have two issues going on:
Logic system overloads = Not enough CPU or RAM.
Lagging = maybe some other weird stuff, possibly unrelated to Logic. Or is this happening only during playback?

 

[randomdude83]

I went from mac pro 5.1 12 core 3.46ghz 96gb, rx580 to m1 max 32core 64gb macbook pro (i know not studio but same processor)

I assure everyone, this transition is safe and plenty. i have yet to run out of ram and the m1 max is double the performance of the 12core cpu in the 5.1

logic user here mostly and FCP is fine

 

[Moonlight]

My 32GB Mac Studio Max can do things with its RAM that my Mac Pro with 128GB can't. Or at least is feels that way so far.

 

[m1maverick]

My 32GB Mac Studio Max can do things with its RAM that my Mac Pro with 128GB can't. Or at least is feels that way so far.

Then you weren't previously RAM constrained.

 

[eddie_ducking]

Then you weren't previously RAM constrained.

not necessarily correct ... "as it feels" is rather subjective. AS is best part of 2x as efficient with RAM as Intel and when coupled with the speed of the internal hard disk and the Studio Max CPU vs Intel Mac Pro CPU it could well be the perceived situation is as stated. The Studio is giving the impression of doing more with the RAM than would be expected. The Memory pressure/usage/detriment effect subjective but easily justified with graphs and screenshots (if anyone cares) but if the Studio isn't stalling/beach-balling and is just getting on with things, who cares if there's a bottleneck there (that doesn't matter)

My Studio Ultra would rather run 4Gb swap in addition to 40G RAM real usage and 24GB Cache RAM ... does that mean I'm out of memory cause swap is in use ? I'd rather it'd reduces the cache and stops the swapping but the machine still flies. I'd more rather it didn't use 3GB RAM for the "Dock" before I kill the thread ... FFS, 3GB for something that used to be happy with 160Mb

 

[Sharky II]

the m1 max is double the performance of the 12core cpu in the 5.1

I guess that's my issue - if I'm maxing out a 44.1/48KHz project pretty evenly (across cores) on a 5,1, then the M1 Max will drop that to about 50%.

Now run that project at 96KHz and you'll be back up to near 100% again.

Is my logic off here? (Pun intended)

I know lots of plugins are oversampling so it won't be quite 2x usage, but it does make me believe that there won't be that much overhead. Plus, running Logic via rosetta or certain intel plugins will require that extra overhead too.

That's why I think the Ultra is the one I'll have to save up for.

 

[Sharky II]

Not exactly a scientific test, but I suppose this is somewhat relevant

 

[m1maverick]

not necessarily correct ... "as it feels" is rather subjective. AS is best part of 2x as efficient with RAM as Intel and when coupled with the speed of the internal hard disk and the Studio Max CPU vs Intel Mac Pro CPU it could well be the perceived situation is as stated. The Studio is giving the impression of doing more with the RAM than would be expected. The Memory pressure/usage/detriment effect subjective but easily justified with graphs and screenshots (if anyone cares) but if the Studio isn't stalling/beach-balling and is just getting on with things, who cares if there's a bottleneck there (that doesn't matter)

No, it is not.

My Studio Ultra would rather run 4Gb swap in addition to 40G RAM real usage and 24GB Cache RAM ... does that mean I'm out of memory cause swap is in use ? I'd rather it'd reduces the cache and stops the swapping but the machine still flies. I'd more rather it didn't use 3GB RAM for the "Dock" before I kill the thread ... FFS, 3GB for something that used to be happy with 160Mb

Swap is not RAM therefore the answer to your question is: If you have heavy paging then yes, you are out of RAM.

 

[sonicthehedgefrog]

Save $400 by buying the Ultra from the Education Store ( https://www.apple.com/us-edu/shop/buy-mac/mac-studio ) 🤙

 

[Sharky II]

Alas, I'm in the UK! They're pretty strict here

 

[m1maverick]

I guess that's my issue - if I'm maxing out a 44.1/48KHz project pretty evenly (across cores) on a 5,1, then the M1 Max will drop that to about 50%.

Now run that project at 96KHz and you'll be back up to near 100% again.

Is my logic off here? (Pun intended)

I know lots of plugins are oversampling so it won't be quite 2x usage, but it does make me believe that there won't be that much overhead. Plus, running Logic via rosetta or certain intel plugins will require that extra overhead too.

That's why I think the Ultra is the one I'll have to save up for.

There have been considerable improvements in processor technology since the 5,1 was released. Thus it's not as simple as double the 5,1 cores equating to half the CPU consumption.

What is Apple's return policy for the UK? If it's like the US my recommendation would be to pick up a Max and try it out on your workload. That is the best way to determine if it will meet your needs (or not).

 

[Moonlight]

Then you weren't previously RAM constrained.

Then why do I get out of ram messages in PS on my Mac pro that I don't get with the same files on my M1?

 

[m1maverick]

Then why do I get out of ram messages in PS on my Mac pro that I don't get with the same files on my M1?

Without details I would have no means to provide any direction on this.

What I can say is if one needs 32GB of memory on an Intel system one needs 32GB on an AS system. There's nothing magic about AS that would reduce RAM requirements by 75%.