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Did anyone buy an M1 Max and regret not getting the Ultra?
- Thread starter Sharky II
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Hi - is the GPU the only thing you upgraded?
If I end up with the M1 Max Studio, I'm actually considering going for the complete base model, in order to maximise savings, then swap it out in 2-3 years if it's not 'fast enough'/struggling with my workload.
Once I start speccing it up to £2800 (64gb, 1tb, 32 GPU) it becomes less of a 'bargain' to me, and none of those things are less important than the other (to me).
It also limits where I can buy it from/financing options (i.e. if you want to BTO you pretty much have to go to Apple.com)
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I originally had a Max on order (with 64GB and 2TB), but switched to an Ultra (only 1TB). It was a trade off on storage space...I wanted 2TB. Crossing fingers that at some point storage upgrades will be available.
I don't need the Ultra, the Max would have been fine. I would not regret had I made the opposite decision as I did.
I don't need the Ultra, the Max would have been fine. I would not regret had I made the opposite decision as I did.
I‘m running Ableton Live on a Max with 32GB RAM. I use predominantly VSTs and my projects typically have up to 20-25 tracks. With my old 2018 Intel MacBook Pro with 16GB I would often have to flatten tracks and run high buffers (1024, 2048) to avoid dropouts and stuttering. With the Max I’m running the VSTs in real time and can usually set the buffer at 64 or 128 samples - a huge improvement. In my case, the Max has been more than enough and I don’t believe an Ultra would be worth the added expense.
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I was able to get it sooner, and the price difference of the custom build Max was nearly the same as the base Ultra.
I'm not looking for any direction. I am just saying it is not a one for one on RAM like you believe it to be.
Spontaneously ordered an Ultra. Saw it come up in stock (2 Ultras, no Max) at John Lewis (UK) yesterday in the UK and nearly went for it but I ‘let’ them sell. There were 2 in stock.
Went back today and one was back in stock. managed to get 2 years 0% finance, and went for it.
I really hope to not have to see the System Overload message pop up for a very, very long time.
I'd better get some work done…
Went back today and one was back in stock. managed to get 2 years 0% finance, and went for it.
I really hope to not have to see the System Overload message pop up for a very, very long time.
I'd better get some work done…
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If you don't mind the base models check out Costco UK. When the studio launched the prices were £200 off the max & £400 off the Ultra. After they literally sold out in a day, the max is only now back up. There's similar savings on all mac models but stocks appear to come & go.
Edit: sorry just saw you went with JL, maybe get them for a price match
I think in reality most user will be fine with the Max - I only got the Ultra as I'm a heavy video user - Resolve / FCP etc and for them it's well worth it.
What are you doing where the performance of your Ultra (specs?) using Resolve and Final Cut is significantly better than the performance of a loaded Max would be?
Scrape that cash together and the ultra brother. Sounds like your livelihood. Think of the extra 2k split monthly over the life of the machine.
4K Video / Film work / VFX - I've had a few Mac Pros over the years and have always been amazed how many years of use I've got out of them. At least 5 years - sometimes 7-8. So for me it's a business investment. It will pay for itself in a few months of work. So just went for the Ultra. Also - I suspect we are yet to see some of the app optimisation for the Ultra.
I went for a Max, upgraded RAM and graphics. Only regret is that I stuck with 512 GB for the internal storage instead of going to 1 TB. 512 GB did me fine for years (I use extensive external storage devices) but as I'm upgrading less frequently with time, saving $200 to not go for at least 1 TB is regrettable. 512 GB will probably seem ridiculously small in 5-7 years.
I have bursts where I push my system hard but most of the time it's not running hard at all. A Mac mini technically would have sufficed, but I'm at a point in my life where I have more money than time, so it's worthwhile to spring for a faster system. I considered the Ultra, but when I looked at benchmarks in applications that I use regularly (particularly Capture One Pro) there was little difference, and in some tests, literally no difference. The performance difference might be significant if I were regularly running the system hard, but I couldn't justify it. I often justify buying the best by figuring that it'll last me longer, but the M1 represents Apple's first desktop iteration. Not that we don't have any history of their chip design pacing thanks to iOS devices, but it's unclear how quickly they'll ramp things up in terms of performance with desktops and how much more likely I'd be to change my buying habits and upgrade sooner. So if there was a time to sit out on buying the best of the best, this seemed like a good product to do it.
I have bursts where I push my system hard but most of the time it's not running hard at all. A Mac mini technically would have sufficed, but I'm at a point in my life where I have more money than time, so it's worthwhile to spring for a faster system. I considered the Ultra, but when I looked at benchmarks in applications that I use regularly (particularly Capture One Pro) there was little difference, and in some tests, literally no difference. The performance difference might be significant if I were regularly running the system hard, but I couldn't justify it. I often justify buying the best by figuring that it'll last me longer, but the M1 represents Apple's first desktop iteration. Not that we don't have any history of their chip design pacing thanks to iOS devices, but it's unclear how quickly they'll ramp things up in terms of performance with desktops and how much more likely I'd be to change my buying habits and upgrade sooner. So if there was a time to sit out on buying the best of the best, this seemed like a good product to do it.
After looking at my CPU usage in Logic projects (that have some Intel/Rosetta powered plugins in, which is necessary for the time being), I'm very glad I went for the Ultra. I have plenty of projects which seem to be pushing about 40-50% or more across all cores when I unfreeze tracks.
I would only imagine this would mean that I'd have about 70-100% utilisation on the Max, so I'm pretty sure I made the right choice for my work/workflow. I'm not 'shocked' by the performance, everything is about where I expected it.
Lots of Rosetta and weird glitches at the moment, but none due to CPU speed, weird bugs with certain plugins, and even Logic/OSX.
The Rosetta AU manager task seems to be a real RAM hog.
I hope the optimisations keep coming and things improve further. I'm keen to move away from all non-ARM native plugins ASAP.... but it's expensive!
I would only imagine this would mean that I'd have about 70-100% utilisation on the Max, so I'm pretty sure I made the right choice for my work/workflow. I'm not 'shocked' by the performance, everything is about where I expected it.
Lots of Rosetta and weird glitches at the moment, but none due to CPU speed, weird bugs with certain plugins, and even Logic/OSX.
The Rosetta AU manager task seems to be a real RAM hog.
I hope the optimisations keep coming and things improve further. I'm keen to move away from all non-ARM native plugins ASAP.... but it's expensive!
Using a Mac Studio for Live Streaming... M1 Ultra Retail with a 48 core GPU. Running 2x 4K monitors over Displayport plus one 1080P display via HDMI...
At idle with a chrome web browser, my GPU shows about 15% to 25% GPU utilization. When running OBS for live streaming to YouTube and for video conferencing, with a 1080p/60 HDMI capture, GPU utilization hits 65%. Enabling a virtual camera, for virtual camera output, it spikes to 75%. When streaming to Youtube, and I have multiple apps running I hit near 90% GPU utilization. Granted OBS code on MacOS uses a lot more GPU and CPU, even with the ARM64 build, than and equivalent AMD CPU/GPU. If the Mac Studio was more aggressive on GPU timings, perhaps the Max could have worked. But considering the state of the Studio...
Bottom line, there is no way a Mac Studio Max could handle what I do. While I had intended on an upgraded Studio Max with 64GB of ram and a 2TB SSD, I'm VERY HAPPY I opted for skipping the 3 month wait and went for a Studio Ultra.
YMMV!
At idle with a chrome web browser, my GPU shows about 15% to 25% GPU utilization. When running OBS for live streaming to YouTube and for video conferencing, with a 1080p/60 HDMI capture, GPU utilization hits 65%. Enabling a virtual camera, for virtual camera output, it spikes to 75%. When streaming to Youtube, and I have multiple apps running I hit near 90% GPU utilization. Granted OBS code on MacOS uses a lot more GPU and CPU, even with the ARM64 build, than and equivalent AMD CPU/GPU. If the Mac Studio was more aggressive on GPU timings, perhaps the Max could have worked. But considering the state of the Studio...
Bottom line, there is no way a Mac Studio Max could handle what I do. While I had intended on an upgraded Studio Max with 64GB of ram and a 2TB SSD, I'm VERY HAPPY I opted for skipping the 3 month wait and went for a Studio Ultra.
YMMV!
Are you running a lot of Rosetta processes btw?
My 2012 MBP has less idle utilisation on desktop/safari/chrome browsing!
My 2012 MBP has less idle utilisation on desktop/safari/chrome browsing!
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Here's a mix that I started on my intel Mac, and I'm just bouncing it out now. You can see the CPU meter in the Logic arrange page screenshot.
On my maxed out old 5,1 Mac Pro, I had to freeze some of the tracks to get it to play back, however I don't consider this to be a 'huge' project by my standards. It's at 44.1KHz, and I often work at 96KHz (when I get the choice vs when I get a mix to send in). I had planned on upsampling songs I get sent in to 96KHz, too.
There are Intel based plugins running here, but that's going to have to be the case until I can run everything Native. the vast majority of plugins are ARM native though.
As you can see, there is not a lot of chance that an M1 Max would run this mix easily, and it's just at 44.1KHz. A fair bit of oversampling is enabled on the plugins, however.
I think things will get better when everything is ARM native and perhaps also when the project began life on an ARM system. Plus just because the plugins are ARM native, doesn't mean they're very optimised, hopefully things will improve then.
However if you need to get work done *today*, then hopefully this real world example offers a bit of realistic context for people who haven't switched yet and are wondering how much power they need. I do use a lot of heavy plugins FYI.
Cheers,
Ed
On my maxed out old 5,1 Mac Pro, I had to freeze some of the tracks to get it to play back, however I don't consider this to be a 'huge' project by my standards. It's at 44.1KHz, and I often work at 96KHz (when I get the choice vs when I get a mix to send in). I had planned on upsampling songs I get sent in to 96KHz, too.
There are Intel based plugins running here, but that's going to have to be the case until I can run everything Native. the vast majority of plugins are ARM native though.
As you can see, there is not a lot of chance that an M1 Max would run this mix easily, and it's just at 44.1KHz. A fair bit of oversampling is enabled on the plugins, however.
I think things will get better when everything is ARM native and perhaps also when the project began life on an ARM system. Plus just because the plugins are ARM native, doesn't mean they're very optimised, hopefully things will improve then.
However if you need to get work done *today*, then hopefully this real world example offers a bit of realistic context for people who haven't switched yet and are wondering how much power they need. I do use a lot of heavy plugins FYI.
Cheers,
Ed
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Although the version of OBS I use has been converted to arm64, OBS on MacOS is a resource hog compared to its Windows implementation.
I'm glad I went with the ultra. I wanted a desktop that would legitimately be faster than a MacBook Pro, and the Ultra of course does that. I can drive 3 5K monitors easily (and probably more). It took some time to port our software but now my builds are using all 20 cores and are simply blazing in certain areas, although I have much more to tweak. For compiles, it takes a great deal of effort to order and synchronize things to avoid stalls ... it's a never ending hill to climb. Your average developer won't need this kind of power tho.
My M1 Max Studio is a hair better than my old maxed out 5,1.....It falls way short of my expectations in Logic because loading up your busses will make one thread max out! it will not even the load through the other threads that have processing space and I understand why but still....In this sense its unusable unless I start mixing completely different and put more plugins on individual channels and lighten up the bus load but I shouldn't have to. I bet the M1 Ultra would fall short in the same area. I merely have 30 tracks and less than 100 plugins within a mix and Im still forced to freeze tracks.. I don't know how you professional guys do it with 100 tracks
how's your ultra holding up; are you all native yet? My M1 Max kinda ***** the bed in my Logic projects and is barely better than my old 5.1 if u see my post above.
Same dilemma here, running a late 2013 MacPro and looking at either Max or Ultra. The question is, with the same CPU clock speed (3.2Ghz) is there an appreciable difference when running VIs and plugins rather than just audio tracks? I was under the impression that single core is the important metric...