Did Facebook Save Flash?

[CPrzywojski]

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So I apologize ahead of time if I'm asking a redundant question, however I was having a little debate with a friend of mine about the significance of Flash in the mobile world, and I was trying to point out that Flash was becoming absolete since apps were the primary use on smart phones(see 25 billion downloads). Anyway, I remember reading a few years ago how many people, especially on this site, believes that Flash was a dying breed. But then I wondered, "why is it still around after all these years? Who still uses flash?" and I realized that everyone primarily uses Flash on Facebook for their games and such(if I'm not mistaken). So I guess my question is, has Facebook(at least in the short term) saved Flash from becoming extinct?

 

[d0vr]

If Facebook games died along with Flash, I would be a happy man. I hate Facebook games almost as much as I hate how hot my computers get when I'm using anything with Flash.

But yes, I wouldn't be surprised is Facebook apps is one of the big contributors to Flash still being around.

 

[Doombringer]

Flash needs to die already. It began as an exciting multimedia presentation platform and was quickly blown way, way out of proportion. Just because you "can" do something doesn't mean you "should" ... but developers did, and now we have these bloated, power-chugging Flash games.

 

[rowley]

it will not go until all browsers are html5 compliant, so many of them are not.

 

[Daveoc64]

Adobe released a roadmap for the future of the Flash platform last week. They said that it would be used primarily for two things going forward:

1) Premium Video - HTML5 currently offers no way to securely distribute video content, and it looks highly unlikely that it ever will.

2) Games - the technologies like Canvas, SVG and WebGL that people talk about under the "HTML5" umbrella have various issues. Some aren't supported by all of the browsers and there are varying degrees of hardware acceleration support. Flash is much more mature and is designed to work on a variety of hardware and software configurations.

 

[VulchR]

[Waits for flexengineer]

 

[NutsNGum]

it will not go until all browsers are html5 compliant, so many of them are not.

Most of them never will be either. At the rate the WSG works it'll be 3022 before the draft is finalised.

Not to mention the abundance of proprietary CSS elements that webkit is throwing into the mix.

----------

Adobe released a roadmap for the future of the Flash platform last week. They said that it would be used primarily for two things going forward:

1) Premium Video - HTML5 currently offers no way to securely distribute video content, and it looks highly unlikely that it ever will.

Though Netflix canned Flash citing that it wasn't secure enough in itself and have transferred their streaming service to MS SilverLight.

I'm no fanboy, but I think Adobe are really flogging a dead horse, as far as the media streaming angle goes.

It's sad though, as I do love the odd Flash game, and like you said, there is no real way to replicate that at the moment with currently available technologies.

 

[normanbates]

It's not just Facebook that uses flash in a big way. A few video sites that I visit (I won't name them ) still use flash to stop people stealing the videos they post.

My PC has never had troubles dealing with Flash, never slowed or got hot. I think Flash is cool and have always been perplexed as to why Apple will not allow it to be ported onto iOS.

I know they cite 'security' issues, but how can they sack Adobe off for that reason but be intalks with Facebook for integration into the iOS platform when even Mark Zuckerburg warned potential investors recently that Facebook is a prime target for hackers? Strange.

 

[NutsNGum]

It's not just Facebook that uses flash in a big way. A few video sites that I visit (I won't name them ) still use flash to stop people stealing the videos they post.

My PC has never had troubles dealing with Flash, never slowed or got hot. I think Flash is cool and have always been perplexed as to why Apple will not allow it to be ported onto iOS.

I know they cite 'security' issues, but how can they sack Adobe off for that reason but be intalks with Facebook for integration into the iOS platform when even Mark Zuckerburg warned potential investors recently that Facebook is a prime target for hackers? Strange.

Different OS permission levels required.

Turn on a laptop and start running Flash videos and you'll understand why Apple didn't want it ported to iOS.

 

[normanbates]

Different OS permission levels required.

Turn on a laptop and start running Flash videos and you'll understand why Apple didn't want it ported to iOS.

I have never had a problem with Flash, I do use a laptop

 

[NutsNGum]

I have never had a problem with Flash, I do use a laptop

You're one of the few.

 

[Small White Car]

I think Flash is cool and have always been perplexed as to why Apple will not allow it to be ported onto iOS.

Well, when Adobe themselves says they're not going to make mobile Flash anymore because they can't make it work right...well let's just say I'm confused that you're confused.

 

[sulliweb]

My opinion on it is that it's like saying you hate clowns or mimes. No one (or very few people) really have a reason to dislike them. It's simply one of those cool things to say now.

I won't say that Flash hasn't caused problems for some, but it surprises me that a minority of people have issues with Flash, thus it should die. A similar or possibly larger majority have had major antennae issues and now battery issues with the iPhone... Yet everyone is excited for the next iPhone.... By the logic used with Flash, shouldn't the iPhone be on the way out as well?

I know Apples and Oranges, so to speak. Still... Sounds like Adobe just hasn't spent as much on advertising and KoolAid as Apple has.

Just something to think about...

Personally, I've never noticed any issues with Flash that aren't accounted for by the content it's serving up.

 

[Carouser]

Still... Sounds like Adobe just hasn't spent as much on advertising and KoolAid as Apple has.

Yes, clearly this is it, Flash and Apple products are utterly equivalent in terms of addressing a need successfully, the only difference is marketing.

 

[VulchR]

My opinion on it is that it's like saying you hate clowns or mimes. No one (or very few people) really have a reason to dislike them. It's simply one of those cool things to say now....

Agreed, but then again the sight of somebody miming fills me with a visceral, homicidal rage. Street musicians playing the flute or guitar do the same to me. Don't know why.

In any case, I do not miss Flash on my iPhone, primarily because most sites use Flash as a way of circumventing privacy preferences by using LSO's. Most of the time Flash is simply not needed for any other useful purpose.

 

[Dr McKay]

Flash is still around because it runs smoothly and with little resources required on Windows, with very few crashes.

 

[Carouser]

Flash is still around because it runs smoothly and with little resources required on Windows, with very few crashes.

Flash is still around because of path dependency and because the presence of alternatives won't, by merely existing, obliterate every instance of Flash from the web.

 

[jterp7]

Different OS permission levels required.

Turn on an Apple laptop and start running Flash videos and you'll understand why Apple didn't want it ported to iOS.

fixed. It's an Apple + Flash issue. The irony is that a 2011 high end MBP will be brought to its knees with flash and just about anything not a netbook on the windows side will run it without breaking a sweat. I'm willing to bet that the zenbook that's been discussed heavily will do it easily in comparison to my MBA. It's probably the only thing that it does better, but it's annoying nonetheless.

 

[NutsNGum]

fixed. It's an Apple + Flash issue. The irony is that a 2011 high end MBP will be brought to its knees with flash and just about anything not a netbook on the windows side will run it without breaking a sweat. I'm willing to bet that the zenbook that's been discussed heavily will do it easily in comparison to my MBA. It's probably the only thing that it does better, but it's annoying nonetheless.

Fair point, mate.

 

[sulliweb]

The irony is that a 2011 high end MBP will be brought to its knees with flash and just about anything not a netbook on the windows side will run it without breaking a sweat.

Actually, I have a Dell Mini 10 netbook that uses flash for some of flash based web games just fine... I use Windows outside of iOS, so I can't speak to OSX. (Though, there is a reason I use Windows. There's a lot of benefits to OSX, but there are some things, like this, that just don't work that I refuse to live without. Though, that's another discussion entirely.)

Still, every model of Dell and HP desktop that I've used and Acer, ASUS, and Dell netbooks that I've seen (which are quite a few as I'm an IT guy at a school district), seem to run Flash just fine. Now, I'd never accuse Apple of deliberately trying to kill Flash, but I guess, given statements made by Apple and Steve Jobs, that perhaps I don't have to...

Again, just food for thought...

 

[jterp7]

Actually, I have a Dell Mini 10 netbook that uses flash for some of flash based web games just fine... I use Windows outside of iOS, so I can't speak to OSX. (Though, there is a reason I use Windows. There's a lot of benefits to OSX, but there are some things, like this, that just don't work that I refuse to live without. Though, that's another discussion entirely.)

Still, every model of Dell and HP desktop that I've used and Acer, ASUS, and Dell netbooks that I've seen (which are quite a few as I'm an IT guy at a school district), seem to run Flash just fine. Now, I'd never accuse Apple of deliberately trying to kill Flash, but I guess, given statements made by Apple and Steve Jobs, that perhaps I don't have to...

Again, just food for thought...

my problem is that hardware wise, the MBA is certainly capable of running flash well. Apple and Adobe somewhere along the line chose not to work together to code it properly, and you'll find plenty of fanboi's saying that it's adobe's fault here, but its really both.

 

[sulliweb]

Agreed, but then again the sight of somebody miming fills me with a visceral, homicidal rage. Street musicians playing the flute or guitar do the same to me. Don't know why.

+1 just for making me smile.

The thought of a crazed person chasing a street musician down with the hopes of beating him with his own guitar... or chasing a mime... (Side thought, if a mime is being chased, do they scream??) It just makes me laugh a little... Or a lot...

 

[tmarks11]

Flash is still around because it runs smoothly and with little resources required on Windows, with very few crashes.

That was the only funny and amusing thing in the whole thread.

And you were able to deliver it with such a deadpan expression... i am impressed, and refuse to play poker with you.

 

[haravikk]

I think we're stuck with Flash for a while yet, as animation and games just aren't as good with HTML 5. I mean, you can definitely build them, but for silly or niche games online it's still a much easier platform to develop in.

In some ways it's a shame really; Flash has become a jack-of-all-trades, terrible at most of them, kind of tool, but the stuff that it originally became popular for (animations and games) are things that it is actually still very good at.

It never should have taken on video streaming, because it was never the right choice for it, and even today it's still awful at it. Maybe if Adobe realises that it still has some areas that it can do well at, and focus on those, then we might still see it in some form.

Incidentally, it's actually still a nice environment to work with for cross-platform apps, but with Adobe seemingly at a loss I can't see many people wanting to risk their projects on it anymore.

 

[djrod]

HTML5 has potential to make good games:

http://www.cuttherope.ie/
http://chrome.angrybirds.com/