No, its just that the OP is blaming Apple. If the OP was blaming Samsung for the exact same thing I'd defend Samsung too.
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Did You Know How your iPhone Was Made?
- Thread starter eljanitor
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No, its just that the OP is blaming Apple. If the OP was blaming Samsung for the exact same thing I'd defend Samsung too.
Really I don't see that I'm blaming anybody. I'm just keeping you all informed of whats going on in the news. Apparently the iPhone is made in China under less then desirable conditions according to the article.
My original post is below I don't see how it assigns blame in any way.
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Funny you get that impression. The way I'm seeing it, no one cares if anyone else does it. But people start screaming bloody murder when Apple does anything.
I read it in a printed newspaper and it seemed legit. I'm sure you can find the component costs & the amount of time it takes to build an iPhone online and do the calculation yourself.
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Blame the government? what the heck has the government to do if corporations dictate low wages and inhuman treatment? The government gets taxes , so they wont do anything .
WE as the consumer have the responsibility . WE buy the product that's created under those conditions , means WE fully agree to those conditions and are encouraging them with the purchase .
Nobody forcing the workers ? true that's right they have the option to starve if they dont work .
Those workers are not to blame for working under those conditions, its often their only option to even have a income at all to try to feed their families with it , so you cant blame somebody for choosing to work under any conditions instead of choosing to starve .
WE the consumers want cheap products and the corporations and shareholders want high profits and high profit margins .
The excuse other corporations do the same does not count in my book , as the others think the same way , so no corporation will start changing it , as every cent more they pay the workers, is 1 cent less profit for the corporation and their shareholders , but corporations make no loss on purpose .
And creating a minimum wage is not a solutions , because production will move automatically into a other country or continent if the corporations don't create enough profit any more ..or why you think they started to produce in china in first place , because producing in the USA would have meant less profit , because the consumer would not want to pay double the price in order to keep the profit margin at the same level .
Most of Apples customers are even accepting quality issues that would be avoidable if Apple would spend more money in QC .
Apple wont do that its cheaper for them to exchange if the customer complains and thats should tell you something about the true production cost, if its cheaper to give you another product if you complain and selling the product you complained about as refurbished to someone else who doesn't complain about . They still make profit on the refurbished products !
But the fact that others do it the same way does not make it any better , we all to often just accept things because all do them , so we think we cant change them ..
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Funny you should say that...
What if that was the only way? What if those jobs did not get outsourced? Are you saying that we'd stop buying stuff just because it is double the price?
I'd rather have my stuff made in civilised countries even if it was more expensive, than paying - what are still - high prices for this slave labour made crap.
"Designed in California - made by a 5 yo in some ******** in China". Apple - ripping you off with a smile..
Then people wouldn't buy a new iPhone every year, in fact, many wouldn't buy an iPhone at all because they can't afford it, so they'd buy a cheaper phone from a diff company. People wouldn't buy a 2nd, 3rd of 4th Mac either. And except for the wealthy, no one would buy an iPad, because that is a sheer luxury item. Thats what would happen.
you are right there up to a certain point and that point is the profit margin . The product does not have to double in price.
If the corporations would lower their profit margin by only 5% and if those 5% would go directly into improvement of working conditions and higher wages.
5% sound not much , but we are talking about trillions in the whole industry !
I know nobody wants to hear it again , but Henry Ford did the first step when he started to double the wages of his workers and improve conditions on the production line and he wasn't a communist, but he wasn't a capitalist either , and the result was not a more expensive product , the result was a product that even the workers on that production line could afford
Back to the iPhone , actually go to the clones of the iPhone some of them come pretty close to the quality Apple is offering , not quiet , but close , but for a fraction of the cost , they often come even from the same factories , with workers who earn the same wage as the ones who build the iPhone , how's that possible , simple the clone makers have a lower profit margin, because nobody would pay the same for a phone without the
logo even if it would be exactly identical
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Apologies I am based in the UK and got the US$ exchange rate wrong. iPhones here start at £319.
I am old enough to remember that my first Mac (in 1994) was built in the Republic of Ireland and cost £1400. Funny how prices have actually come down over the following 18 years despite inflation. I'm also old enough to remember that in 1980 we didn't own a TV, it was rented. Nobody owned electronic stuff back then due to the price.
So I admire that you would like to pay a premium for your electronic products to be assembled in a "civilised" country (you've obviously never been to China if you think it's uncivilised). Where would you get the component parts? And let's not even think about the increasing standard of life and education in these countries now that they are industrialising, let's throw them all back into the fields to pick rice, there's a good peasant.
The amount of misinformation in this thread is just plain scary.
Those of you who want to buy goods only made in America, or not made using any foreign labor - good luck. Please do change your lifestyle to use only goods made entirely in the country of choice. Come back here and let us know how that works for you.... Oh wait, you cannot, since you can't buy the necessary electronics....
Those who think that iPhone clones come from the same factories and use the same parts are delusional.
Those who believe government should intervene and impose sanctions to try to fix this problem need to find one real world example where trade sanctions are actually good for the economy....
Good luck
Those of you who want to buy goods only made in America, or not made using any foreign labor - good luck. Please do change your lifestyle to use only goods made entirely in the country of choice. Come back here and let us know how that works for you.... Oh wait, you cannot, since you can't buy the necessary electronics....
Those who think that iPhone clones come from the same factories and use the same parts are delusional.
Those who believe government should intervene and impose sanctions to try to fix this problem need to find one real world example where trade sanctions are actually good for the economy....
Good luck
Oh yes, and the cost of a. iPhone goes way beyond chip cost and labor. Those who think Apple is making huge profits clearly don't understand what it costs to pay the high salaries of 5,000 professionals in California.
Without these product margins, guess what. The engineering work would also move to foreign countries because Apple could not afford to pay US engineers either...
Without these product margins, guess what. The engineering work would also move to foreign countries because Apple could not afford to pay US engineers either...
Apple makes an overall net profit of about 25%, much higher than most of it's competitors. They are not hurting for money in any area and they don't return most of it to the shareholder. Everyone on the Apple payroll gets paid and there is about $80 billion left over sitting in various banks around the world.
To be fair, Apple (As well as most other companies who have factories in China) does pay their workers a good amount.
Sure it's less than minimum wage. But if they earn $2 a day, and standard wages (Outside those factories) are $0.25 a day...then can you really complain? They're working on much higher wages than the average for that part of the world...sure it seems like nothing to us, but it's a heck of a lot for them.
Many of these people look forward to work - just so they can afford to pay their rent, pay for food, clothing, etc. Those workers are considered rich to their neighbors, I'm pretty sure. (What is 'rich', without poor? What is beauty without ugly? What is anything without it's polar opposite?)
IMO, Apple is doing a great job, and I'd say that they should keep those factories in China. Keep costs low from a consumer view, keep profits higher from a producer view. Keep wages high from an employer's view.
Yeah, I'm sure Apple could be one of the companies that bumps up the wages by a dollar a day, and they wouldn't be hurting, and it'd seem like a ton of money to the workers, but again - Apple is there to make a profit, and keep costs low.
Sure it's less than minimum wage. But if they earn $2 a day, and standard wages (Outside those factories) are $0.25 a day...then can you really complain? They're working on much higher wages than the average for that part of the world...sure it seems like nothing to us, but it's a heck of a lot for them.
Many of these people look forward to work - just so they can afford to pay their rent, pay for food, clothing, etc. Those workers are considered rich to their neighbors, I'm pretty sure. (What is 'rich', without poor? What is beauty without ugly? What is anything without it's polar opposite?)
IMO, Apple is doing a great job, and I'd say that they should keep those factories in China. Keep costs low from a consumer view, keep profits higher from a producer view. Keep wages high from an employer's view.
Yeah, I'm sure Apple could be one of the companies that bumps up the wages by a dollar a day, and they wouldn't be hurting, and it'd seem like a ton of money to the workers, but again - Apple is there to make a profit, and keep costs low.
Apple doesn't own the factories in China nor do they pay those workers. The manufacturing is done by companies that Apple contracts.
By contracting with Foxconn and Co, Apple validates how they are treating employees.
You're assuming a little too much here. Apple might not necessarily be ok with how Foxconn employees are treated, but Foxconn has the capacity, technology, and workforce to make things happen in terms of production. And these workplace condition/worker treatment issues don't exist just at Foxconn. The problem is far more widespread.
At the end of the day Apple has orders to fill and deadlines to meet, and consumers to satisfy.
The problem does not rest with Apple. It rests with governments, both overseas and in North America, and to some extent our expectation that we get what we want and get it when we want it.
I'm not assuming anything, you do business with someone, you justify their culture and their terms. If Apple really disagreed, they would build their own factory.
I understand your point. Not many companies actually take a stand against these issues because bottom line is, they need cheap manufacturing to be competitive. And for 99% of them, profit rules. I know of one American company that produces flashlights and they use almost all made in USA components except for one small piece that is not available here. The company is Mag Instrument, maker of the Maglite flashlights.
I agree and said as much in my previous post.
Glad you agree with me.
Looks like we agree that making a profit is inherent to running a successful business but it is not necessarily the sole reason for a business to exist.
Lethal