Discrimination towards Mac Users

[kingtj]

Mac printing is really easy to set up WHEN the printer you want to use has native OS X support and can be auto detected via Bonjour or AirPrint. Our experience with that has been mixed though. For example, one of our HP color laser printers used to "support" AirPrint printing, so it would get auto-detected that way in OS X. But large print jobs sent to it often stopped in the middle with errors or didn't come out right. We eventually figured out the only way to print them reliably was to set the Mac up for TCP/IP printing to it instead. As soon as you sent jobs to it via AirPrint method, it seemed to use a "dumbed down" version of the whole PCL6 printer language. Good enough to print a couple pages from your iPhone, but not for full size tasks from one of the Macs.

As far as companies paying the premium for Macs? We had that debate where I work since at least 2009-2010. Until recently though, the fact is -- whatever we paid additional for the hardware and accessories up-front was cost justifiable down the road in reduced support costs. We looked at such things as how many hours I.T. spent cleaning malware/spyware off of Windows workstations (despite deploying an antivirus product we also had to pay for), and the amount of misc. support issues the Mac users had vs. the Windows users. The Mac easily won out in those areas.

The disappointing thing is that since 2015 or so? Yeah, the premium for the Mac has gotten higher than ever before while the quality has gone down. The new Macbook Pros have so many design flaws, it's crazy they haven't all been recalled! Everything from cracking video ribbon cables just from people opening and closing the lid too many times to the keyboards that get stuck keys from the tiniest crumb getting under one of them. Get any water in one and you're pretty much certain to be buying a whole new machine, if not replacing every single thing inside the case. (We had one that got a few drops of water inside it, behind the LCD display. Machine was still working fine but you could see the shadows of the water drops in it. Had the person stop using it and send it off for service, to get a new top lid assembly put on it. By the time it arrived at the repair shop, the water had worked its way down the video ribbon cable to connection points where it's soldered to the main board. Apparently, a high voltage line for the CPU was put right next to it on the board, so a water drop bridged that together with a video line and poof! Killed the whole thing.) And all the expensive dongles people have to carry in their bags now, just to be ready to attach one to a projector or what-not? It's gotten out of hand.

I'm glad to hear that, but my printing experience has been the opposite of yours: My Mac is easier to set up and use my network printer than it is in Windows, even with a printer server that is AD based.

Mac is useful still, however there is no point for an organization to pay the premium of Mac if they plan on rapidly expanding their enterprise.

I have been wanted to see Linux in the workplace for years but that will never happen because people don't like change and apparently don't know how to really use computers, which still shocks me.

 

[1146331]

Mac printing is really easy to set up WHEN the printer you want to use has native OS X support and can be auto detected via Bonjour or AirPrint. Our experience with that has been mixed though. For example, one of our HP color laser printers used to "support" AirPrint printing, so it would get auto-detected that way in OS X. But large print jobs sent to it often stopped in the middle with errors or didn't come out right. We eventually figured out the only way to print them reliably was to set the Mac up for TCP/IP printing to it instead. As soon as you sent jobs to it via AirPrint method, it seemed to use a "dumbed down" version of the whole PCL6 printer language. Good enough to print a couple pages from your iPhone, but not for full size tasks from one of the Macs.

As far as companies paying the premium for Macs? We had that debate where I work since at least 2009-2010. Until recently though, the fact is -- whatever we paid additional for the hardware and accessories up-front was cost justifiable down the road in reduced support costs. We looked at such things as how many hours I.T. spent cleaning malware/spyware off of Windows workstations (despite deploying an antivirus product we also had to pay for), and the amount of misc. support issues the Mac users had vs. the Windows users. The Mac easily won out in those areas.

The disappointing thing is that since 2015 or so? Yeah, the premium for the Mac has gotten higher than ever before while the quality has gone down. The new Macbook Pros have so many design flaws, it's crazy they haven't all been recalled! Everything from cracking video ribbon cables just from people opening and closing the lid too many times to the keyboards that get stuck keys from the tiniest crumb getting under one of them. Get any water in one and you're pretty much certain to be buying a whole new machine, if not replacing every single thing inside the case. (We had one that got a few drops of water inside it, behind the LCD display. Machine was still working fine but you could see the shadows of the water drops in it. Had the person stop using it and send it off for service, to get a new top lid assembly put on it. By the time it arrived at the repair shop, the water had worked its way down the video ribbon cable to connection points where it's soldered to the main board. Apparently, a high voltage line for the CPU was put right next to it on the board, so a water drop bridged that together with a video line and poof! Killed the whole thing.) And all the expensive dongles people have to carry in their bags now, just to be ready to attach one to a projector or what-not? It's gotten out of hand.

Totally agree!

Have you seen the Louis Rossman video where he poured a cup of water on a ThinkPad and it still worked?

It also appears that one of the new ThinkPads is designed to allow 20-30 oz of water to spill on it without damage. ThinkPads are very durable and easy to repair, I wish they ran Mac OS.

Unfortunately, Mac Security solutions just aren't the same quality as Windows. Mac does have malware and it has an increasing amount of malware and vulnerabilities. The concepts that it is more secure than Windows is no longer true, it's just less targeted than Windows.

There have unfortunately been ridiculous security flaws over the years on mac from issues with root passwords all the way to the ability to see the contents of an encrypted DMG file after it's been ejected.

 

[kingtj]

I didn't see that particular video, but I'm not that surprised. It's really LONG past time for laptop makers to try to make their machines liquid-resistant. I mean, they've been cautioning people not to eat or drink next to their computer for as long as personal computers existed, but it's never stopped anyone. It's practically a way of life to use your notebook while drinking coffee and eating breakfast..... They need to adapt to the realities of what actual computer users do.

If Apple can make the watch waterproof, it can do the same for its notebooks. At the asking prices, it should have already done it!

On the malware front? I will say that so far, any of our Macs that did get malware were easy to clean back up again with the Mac version of Malware Bytes. They did a nice job with that program. It's just disappointing to see Macs start to have that as a problem on a somewhat regular basis. We went 5+ years with NOBODY getting an infection on one of the corporate Macs. Now, we get at least a couple reports a month of some application changing the default search engine in browsers and putting strange icons on the desktop, etc. etc.

Totally agree!

Have you seen the Louis Rossman video where he poured a cup of water on a ThinkPad and it still worked?

It also appears that one of the new ThinkPads is designed to allow 20-30 oz of water to spill on it without damage. ThinkPads are very durable and easy to repair, I wish they ran Mac OS.

Unfortunately, Mac Security solutions just aren't the same quality as Windows. Mac does have malware and it has an increasing amount of malware and vulnerabilities. The concepts that it is more secure than Windows is no longer true, it's just less targeted than Windows.

There have unfortunately been ridiculous security flaws over the years on mac from issues with root passwords all the way to the ability to see the contents of an encrypted DMG file after it's been ejected.

 

[Tommo66]

Why on earth would they waste the time and money. Waterproof laptops are a niche market, whereas it was an essential part of Apple watch. As for Malware, it still requires user confirmation before you can change any settings, so more to do with the user than the computer,

 

[mrex]

Why on earth would they waste the time and money. Waterproof laptops are a niche market, whereas it was an essential part of Apple watch. As for Malware, it still requires user confirmation before you can change any settings, so more to do with the user than the computer,

It is hardly ever any other reason than ”between the chair and the keyboard”.

 

[Tommo66]

It is hardly ever any other reason than ”between the chair and the keyboard”.

Thanks, I was trying to think of that phrase and couldn't remember.

 

[cromwell64]

[doublepost=1557633097][/doublepost]
Most ignorant and dumb comment I've read in a while.

Web development does not rely on an operating system and an "intelligent" web developer will develop a site that works on the majority of platforms (aka WINDOWS). It doesn't matter what computer they use because in the end the only thing that matters is that a website can function on 90% of computers, not the 2% that are elitist with broken keyboards (AKA Macbook users).

Haha this is funny. I think you have reading comprehension problems.

 

[1146331]

Haha this is funny. I think you have reading comprehension problems.

No, I read it just fine. I believe you have acceptance problems.

 

[pika2000]

Am in the job hunt and virtually every employer wants MS Windows/ MS office experience which I have but every computer assessment I have taken uses Windows as the base and counts computer skills as being solely on MS Windows. I call this discrimination towards Mac users! At my last job I used Outlook, MS Excel, and Windows 10 for my daily duties. But since I am at home I use the Mac + iWorks + Mail at home since I prefer this over MS Windows. I hope this does not mean I will become rusty or will fail some stupid computer assessment because I am using a Mac.

I have never really seen any companies that put skill requirement for Windows as a “must.” It might be listed, but it’s not really something that will be tested upon. Heck, majority of upper management in many non tech companies can barely use Windows/computers.

 

[dandeco]

Oh, here's one for you all. ThinkEDU sells Microsoft Office 2019 for Windows to students at the discounted price of $39.99. But for Mac users, they're just selling Microsoft Office 2016 at that price. Seriously?! I can't find Office 2019 for the Mac anywhere on that site, and the fact that they are just selling dated software to Mac users while the Windows users get the newest up-to-date software is just so annoying!

 

[bruinsrme]

Discrimination????
The company I just started at issued an S9 and an hp laptop.
Their money, their value stream, their preference, their decision on what hardware.
Not sure why they should accommodate something that is outside an alternative operating system that may not suit the business needs

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Oh, here's one for you all. ThinkEDU sells Microsoft Office 2019 for Windows to students at the discounted price of $39.99. But for Mac users, they're just selling Microsoft Office 2016 at that price. Seriously?! I can't find Office 2019 for the Mac anywhere on that site, and the fact that they are just selling dated software to Mac users while the Windows users get the newest up-to-date software is just so annoying!

So, buy a Windows computer if you don't like it. Microsoft is under zero obligation to cater towards Mac users or anyone else it doesn't feel like doing it. You choose an increasingly isolated (just wait until Notarization is mandatory if you think companies treat Macs like 2nd class citizens now) system and then get mad when you suddenly seem to realize, hey it's sometimes poorly supported?

I chose Mac for the OS back in 2006. It was a decade ahead of Windows (save gaming GPU support) and an extremely rare target for Malware. I still think the OS is great except for where Apple chooses to purposely limit it (like fighting a one-man war with NVidia because they wouldn't negotiate for the prices Apple wanted a few years back). I'm at the crossroads point of thinking about just upgrading my 2012 Mac Mini to SSD drives and using it for a server and some other duties while getting a Windows 10 machine for gaming and broader support. I wouldn't be at this point if Apple wasn't heading in the direction of complete isolation once more and offered upgradeable hardware at REASONABLE prices ($6K for a Mac Pro isn't a consumer machine in the slightest no matter how nice it is) and the Mac Mini used to be reasonable to do some upgrades like drives/ram, but it isn't even that anymore unless you go external. But I suppose it least it CAN go external for graphics cards now, but the total price just ends up being so damn high and with the possible threat of some open source developers and the like kissing the Mac goodbye forever if they require Apple registration.

A voice in my head keeps saying there is no way Apple will let emulators and programs like MakeMKV fly under the radar when they can mark them as 'malware' or 'pirateware' or whatever moniker they want to attach to something that threatens their "iTunes" (or whatever they're going to call it in the future) streaming EMPIRE they have planned to RENT music and movies instead of selling them. They sure as hell don't want DISC formats to exist in any form nor 'ownership' of copies of media (licenses not withstanding). The levee is going to break sooner or later and Microsoft might just end up looking like the SAVIOR OF THE UNIVERSE against Apple instead of the other way around it used to seem a decade ago.... FREEDOM and PRIVACY shouldn't mean freedom to buy only Apple products or Apple approved products. And while Tim keeps shouting loud as he can about his own 'rights' as a gay man, it sure seems like he couldn't care less about YOUR rights to have control of your own damn computer.

Microsoft, meanwhile attacks from another direction. They let you keep control of your computer so long as they can ultimately force their updates on you whenever they feel like it and perhaps spy on your for advertising too. I can't say I'm a huge fan of EITHER platform at this point, but Linux can't seem to get its act together as they seem to find having every little nuance variation of Linux imaginable more important than creating an actual competitive platform against the Corporate Masters of the Universe....

We're simultaneously in the most powerful iteration of home computers yet in the known recorded history of mankind and yet in one of the worst positions so far for privacy, control and freedom from advertising in browsers (where the makers of HTML have sold out to the nth degree to ensure we can't even use an ad blocker without the site knowing about it and blocking our blockers or having CRAP pop up when you try to move your mouse to the close button on a tab....(yeah that couldn't be used to trigger malware at some point). And no ability to turn off controls like Javascript that make that kind of evil behavior possible without making the site non-functional. Ten years ago, NONE of that was an issue to block or stop.

 

[TonyK]

Discrimination????
The company I just started at issued an S9 and an hp laptop.
Their money, their value stream, their preference, their decision on what hardware.
Not sure why they should accommodate something that is outside an alternative operating system that may not suit the business needs

At OP,

My company has been Windows until we started Gen2 development (as they call it). At that time developers started getting MBP systems and other people are still getting Windows based systems, just now laptops and not desktop computers.

It really shouldn't matter what your employer uses. As Bruinsme said, their money, their preference, etc. As professionals we have to adjust to what our employer dictates for us to use. If we cannot do that, we need to find another employer.