(Discussion) Why does OSX lag in UI animation when compared to Windows?

[vista980622]

No idea. But as I speculated earlier, it might be that the Finder actually creates the content-based icon but for some reason does not display it. I am fairly sure that the lag while scrolling comes from some sort of disk loading/file content processing work. The scrolling lag comes in waves, its not constant, which suggests that Finder has to pause and load the next batch of data.

BTW, did you submit bug report to Apple? They should clearly fix this. At any rate there is some issue with the Finder.

I see, what you're saying does make sense. However, it doesn't explain why when you create a new folder and put 2 files in it, Finder still lags when you scroll.

This I don't understand. How can you even scroll in Finder if you only have two files? Thats not enough content to be scrolled. I certainly don't have any scrolling lag on smaller folders. For me, the lag starts if I quickly scroll though Finder views with more than few hundreds items.

P.S. Curiously, the All Files view is much smoother with vertical scrolling, even though there are definitively many more items there. It really seems to have something to do with the vertical size of the scroll space. Someone at Apple should do some debugging!

I speculate it's an API change that caused laggy scrolling in Finder (actually, a lot of apps that displays a list of files, such as Pacifist has the same problem). This problem is not present in Mavericks or previous versions in OS X.

Forcing Yosemite to load Mavericks' Finder app is actually possible (AirDrop automatically reverted to legacy mode and various artwork has glitches), but scrolling issues still remains.

I have tried Finder in various machines (including MacBook Air, MacBook Pro and Mac Pro) in three Apple Stores, and they all have the same problem (to a different degree, though).

Already filed a bug report. Not marked as duplicate. Not responded. Still left as open.

 

[narutoksa]

I have tried Finder in various machines (including MacBook Air, MacBook Pro and Mac Pro) in three Apple Stores, and they all have the same problem (to a different degree, though).

exactly my experience. I have also tried Finder on many Macs with all showing the same lag, albeit in various degrees. Even a Mac Pro lags, which might indicate it's a not hardware issue.

 

[Yaboze]

It seems that after Snow Leopard, 10.6.8, OSX has gotten slower and laggier.

My old 2007 Macbook with 10.6.8 boots up and shuts down quickly and is very snappy as far as the UI.

I think Apple just doesn't have as good of a graphic API or graphics drivers as Windows.

 

[FumbleDuck]

Test Number 1: Open System Preferences --> Energy Saver --> go back to System Preferences. Look closely at the animation when going back to System Preferences.

Test Number 2: Open the Application folder from within Finder (not the launchpad app) --> scroll through the apps. Look closely for any lag, especially when the bouncing effect happens. You can also try a folder with two files like I showed in an earlier post.

Test Number 3: Open Safari --> go to any website you like (macrumors, theverge,...etc) --> resize Safari by garbing any of the corners (not with the plus button). Do it fast enough and you should see it lagging.

If non of these tests produce lag, than it may very well be a limited issue suffered only by some percentage of users.

Test Number 1: No discernible lag or any deviation from expected animation.

Test Number 2: Finder in "list view" - very slight jerkiness (less than 0.5 seconds worth) on very first scroll through (at high speed - trying to get to bottom as fast as possible). Scrolling back up and down after this is smooth as butter.

Test Number 3: Shrinking and expanding safari window as fast as possible from screen corner to screen corner on this site reveals no lag or "jumpiness" at all.

A further test: Opening about this Mac and switching between tabs: Slight delay in displaying the tab after click - less than 0.5 seconds. It just seems that the animation starts after a set delay period then works OK.

My machine: rMBP 15-inch mid-2014 Iris pro only, 16/256GB, Yosemite clean install (10.10.0) in October and updated to 10.10.2.

 

[Skylitfly]

10.9 was buttery smooth for me. I didn't notice any UI lag.

Can't say the same about 10.10... thought it doesn't bother me too much.

 

[narutoksa]

Test Number 1: No discernible lag or any deviation from expected animation.

Test Number 2: Finder in "list view" - very slight jerkiness (less than 0.5 seconds worth) on very first scroll through (at high speed - trying to get to bottom as fast as possible). Scrolling back up and down after this is smooth as butter.

Test Number 3: Shrinking and expanding safari window as fast as possible from screen corner to screen corner on this site reveals no lag or "jumpiness" at all.

A further test: Opening about this Mac and switching between tabs: Slight delay in displaying the tab after click - less than 0.5 seconds. It just seems that the animation starts after a set delay period then works OK.

My machine: rMBP 15-inch mid-2014 Iris pro only, 16/256GB, Yosemite clean install (10.10.0) in October and updated to 10.10.2.

Very interesting, I don't know why you don't see the lag I'm seeing. Maybe your eyes are not as sensitive to lag as mine are. Perhaps, you can make us a video showing the tests being performed on you mac, if you have time. I would do the same if you like.

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10.9 was buttery smooth for me. I didn't notice any UI lag.

Can't say the same about 10.10... thought it doesn't bother me too much.

I'm assuming you talking about your 15 inch macbook pro (early 2013). Is that the model with the discrete graphics card or the integrated one?

 

[FumbleDuck]

Very interesting, I don't know why you don't see the lag I'm seeing. Maybe your eyes are not as sensitive to lag as mine are. Perhaps, you can make us a video showing the tests being performed on you mac, if you have time. I would do the same if you like.

Video showing tests here: http://youtu.be/6IOo6WH9paA

All the tests were performed using the trackpad and the small "jump" in the application folder scrolling was due to my fingers on the trackpad (same for the motions in the Safari Window resizing).
As you say, maybe I'm not sensitive to lag but I can't discern any obvious UI lagging that would indicate to me that its not behaving as it should.

PS: I have disabled translucency if that accounts for anything.....

 

[crjackson2134]

Test Number 1: Open System Preferences --> Energy Saver --> go back to System Preferences. Look closely at the animation when going back to System Preferences.

Test Number 2: Open the Application folder from within Finder (not the launchpad app) --> scroll through the apps. Look closely for any lag, especially when the bouncing effect happens. You can also try a folder with two files like I showed in an earlier post.

Test Number 3: Open Safari --> go to any website you like (macrumors, theverge,...etc) --> resize Safari by garbing any of the corners (not with the plus button). Do it fast enough and you should see it lagging.

If non of these tests produce lag, than it may very well be a limited issue suffered only by some percentage of users.

I have ALL of these to a VERY great degree. Nothing to watch closely, it's very obvious. I even upgraded my video card from a HD5870 to an HD7970 3GB and it didn't help at all.

 

[narutoksa]

Video showing tests here: http://youtu.be/6IOo6WH9paA

All the tests were performed using the trackpad and the small "jump" in the application folder scrolling was due to my fingers on the trackpad (same for the motions in the Safari Window resizing).
As you say, maybe I'm not sensitive to lag but I can't discern any obvious UI lagging that would indicate to me that its not behaving as it should.

PS: I have disabled translucency if that accounts for anything.....

well, it is hard to see from the video, but still I don't see any major lag, especially when you resize safari (lucky you ). Can you try enabling translucency and test again? You don't have to upload a new video for it. Just tell us if enabling translucency introduces any new lag. Thanks for uploading the video.

 

[narutoksa]

I have ALL of these to a VERY great degree. Nothing to watch closely, it's very obvious. I even upgraded my video card from a HD5870 to an HD7970 3GB and it didn't help at all.

I know, I guess there is nothing we can do. I'm not too upset about my mac lagging, since it's an old, slow macbook air from 2012 (base model), but yours shouldn't even think of lagging. I mean a mac pro with a graphics card of that caliber can easily render all animations at 120 fps. I'm curious, did you have this kind of lag prior to 10.10?

 

[VMukhtarov]

Try this http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/2wf1mg/you_see_lags_on_yosemite_try_quartz_debugapp/

 

[crjackson2134]

I know, I guess there is nothing we can do. I'm not too upset about my mac lagging, since it's an old, slow macbook air from 2012 (base model), but yours shouldn't even think of lagging. I mean a mac pro with a graphics card of that caliber can easily render all animations at 120 fps. I'm curious, did you have this kind of lag prior to 10.10?

No, it was astonishingly fast beforehand (comparatively speaking).

 

[narutoksa]

Try this http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/2wf1mg/you_see_lags_on_yosemite_try_quartz_debugapp/

I've used this tool before. It helps with monitoring the fps count. Thanks for sharing.

 

[FumbleDuck]

well, it is hard to see from the video, but still I don't see any major lag, especially when you resize safari (lucky you ). Can you try enabling translucency and test again? You don't have to upload a new video for it. Just tell us if enabling translucency introduces any new lag. Thanks for uploading the video.

Unticking "reduce transparency" in preferences-accessibilitydid not make any difference, except in one case:

There was a small amount of jumpiness introduced when scrolling the Applications folder - but only in Grid View - list view made no difference.

Safari and everything else performs as expected.

 

[pdaholic]

As the number of file stored within my folders increase, I too have noticed how slow Finder is when scrolling through those folders. I'm on the latest MacBook Pro Retina. It's pretty annoying to have to look for a file at the end of a list, start off scrolling quickly and then suddenly it lags and takes longer than it should to find the target file.

 

[narutoksa]

Unticking "reduce transparency" in preferences-accessibilitydid not make any difference, except in one case:

There was a small amount of jumpiness introduced when scrolling the Applications folder - but only in Grid View - list view made no difference.

Safari and everything else performs as expected.

Great, I will go to the nearby Apple store and check the 15" macbook pro again. I'm interested in picking one up if it doesn't lag like yours.

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As the number of file stored within my folders increase, I too have noticed how slow Finder is when scrolling through those folders. I'm on the latest MacBook Pro Retina. It's pretty annoying to have to look for a file at the end of a list, start off scrolling quickly and then suddenly it lags and takes longer than it should to find the target file.

According to FumbleDuck, switching to list view in Finder helps with the lag. Also, turning on "reduce transparency" option might actually reduce the lag you're experience.

 

[teeck2000]

Yeah I have noticed this as well. It's especially bad with HIDPI settings. 4k doesn't help either too much, but it's been okay for me running at 1:1 with no scaling on the GTX 980. But my MBP retina is all sorts of lag, it got smoother in mavericks but Yosemite is a mess...

Apple needs to release a new "Snow Leopard"

 

[bcam117]

Record FPS history?

Trying to use this quartz debug thing. As cool as the meter is it's not exactly giving much useful information. To check frame rates I have to keep performing the animation and looking at the gauge.

Am I just being dumb and missing a way to record the history of frame rates? Thanks.

 

[Taz Mangus]

Test Number 1: Open System Preferences --> Energy Saver --> go back to System Preferences. Look closely at the animation when going back to System Preferences.

Test Number 2: Open the Application folder from within Finder (not the launchpad app) --> scroll through the apps. Look closely for any lag, especially when the bouncing effect happens. You can also try a folder with two files like I showed in an earlier post.

Test Number 3: Open Safari --> go to any website you like (macrumors, theverge,...etc) --> resize Safari by garbing any of the corners (not with the plus button). Do it fast enough and you should see it lagging.

If non of these tests produce lag, than it may very well be a limited issue suffered only by some percentage of users.

I tried out all the tests you cited above. The only thing I noticed was a slight jerkiness in the file list mode. I did a clean install of 10.10.2 on my 2011 27" iMac. I made a video showing what I observed: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9373055/Yosemite_10.10.2_Lag_Test.mov

 

[Queen6]

Am not observing lag on amy of our Mac`s unless they are being completely overwhelmed by the applications in which case any variation of OS X will lag, equally I am not look for it...

Q-6

 

[narutoksa]

Trying to use this quartz debug thing. As cool as the meter is it's not exactly giving much useful information. To check frame rates I have to keep performing the animation and looking at the gauge.

Am I just being dumb and missing a way to record the history of frame rates? Thanks.

Yeah, it wasn't really that useful for me either.

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I tried out all the tests you cited above. The only thing I noticed was a slight jerkiness in the file list mode. I did a clean install of 10.10.2 on my 2011 27" iMac. I made a video showing what I observed: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9373055/Yosemite_10.10.2_Lag_Test.mov

Your mac performs way better than main like way way better. If my next mac performs like yours I will be happy

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Am not observing lag on amy of our Mac`s unless they are being completely overwhelmed by the applications in which case any variation of OS X will lag, equally I am not look for it...

Q-6

What mac are you using?

 

[IowaLynn]

Try installing on a new drive - USB3, Thunderbolt, does not need to be main drive. Don't install anything except Apple updates. Even create a new user.

If you have not upgraded memory, if your gpu is old or can't be upgraded, if you are not using some type of SSD (blade would be ideal) those all help and what was fine in 2009 or 2011 is lagging probably.

Yosemite hands off a lot of work to the GPU. If you haven't upgraded or can't, and Intel IG depends on having a chunk of system memory for itself...

IBM use to tout how software upgrades sell hardware and that was decades ago.

My 8-1/2 year old Mac Pro though with new GPU, PCIe-SSD and more RAM runs better today than it had ever before on the same 4-core it had in 2006.

 

[narutoksa]

Try installing on a new drive - USB3, Thunderbolt, does not need to be main drive. Don't install anything except Apple updates. Even create a new user.

If you have not upgraded memory, if your gpu is old or can't be upgraded, if you are not using some type of SSD (blade would be ideal) those all help and what was fine in 2009 or 2011 is lagging probably.

Yosemite hands off a lot of work to the GPU. If you haven't upgraded or can't, and Intel IG depends on having a chunk of system memory for itself...

IBM use to tout how software upgrades sell hardware and that was decades ago.

My 8-1/2 year old Mac Pro though with new GPU, PCIe-SSD and more RAM runs better today than it had ever before on the same 4-core it had in 2006.

I tried a fresh instal countless times. For me, it doesn't help. Plus, my macbook air 2012 is not my main computer anymore. I use a desktop windows pc with the beautiful 27" Apple cinema display. It is hard to use a laptop after getting used to the large display. Thanks anyways for your advice.

 

[jackdtz]

Video showing tests here: http://youtu.be/6IOo6WH9paA

All the tests were performed using the trackpad and the small "jump" in the application folder scrolling was due to my fingers on the trackpad (same for the motions in the Safari Window resizing).
As you say, maybe I'm not sensitive to lag but I can't discern any obvious UI lagging that would indicate to me that its not behaving as it should.

PS: I have disabled translucency if that accounts for anything.....

Enable translucency. Use it for 3 days without shutting it down. Then try to switch between virtual desktop and use mission control to see if there's any lag

 

[Pax]

Lag - my experience - Apple is interested

Just dropping by with my experience...

Had the lag in 10.10.1, specifically, the Mac was fine on boot but degraded over time, after a couple of days the UI got painfully choppy, particularly Mission Control animations.

I thought 10.10.2 had fixed this, but I started getting the same problem again, this time with bad battery life and a hot Mac.

I emailed Apple with specific details, a couple of days later an Apple guy contacted me and said that they realised people were still complaining, and they wanted to find Macs with the bug to do some diagnostics. I said wait a bit, the Mac is fine at the moment, let me see if it happens repeatably, and if it does I'll get in touch.

I did some diagnostics on my own and I found out that the problem was Preview.app. After a few hours use (scrolling large PDFs) Preview's CPU use rises to about 20%, and windowserver's to about the same level. Overall the CPU rises to about 40% even when the Mac is doing nothing. The UI gets horribly choppy again and battery life drops to around 5 hours.

But quitting Preview and relaunching it fixed my problem. I find I have to quit and relaunch Preview every day, or this problem creeps back. It's now about a week since my last reboot and the UI is still fine. I contacted the Apple guy and let him know all this. He passed the info on to the Engineering team, I don't know where it goes from there.

So I would suggest, if you are still having lag problems
(a) check Activity Monitor, windowserver should be 1% CPU or something when idle & look for rogue apps with high CPU use
(b) try quitting & relaunching apps, particularly Preview
(c) get in touch with Apple, with a specific email, as many details as possible

Basically, Apple wants to know if this is a real problem and if so, talk to people with it.

Having said all that, I think 10.10.2 is still a bit choppier than 10.9 and earlier. Particularly Mission Control, sometimes when I hit the Mission Control key first time there is a small hesitation (tenths of a second?) before anything happens. Then sometimes the animation frame rate is not fantastic, especially with >10 windows. Subsequent presses don't have that hesitation. Window resizing, Finder scrolling are not bad. Disabling transparency helps with the frame rate a bit, but doesn't help with that initial hesitation. It's not horrible, it's perfectly useable, it's just not gorgeous.

2013 rMBP, Iris integrated graphics, 10.10.2, upgraded from 10.9