Disillusioned by the Apple dillying!

[Bern]

I am really beginning to doubt the Company, and although I have mentally made the decision to switch from a windows pc am really struggling now to make that leap of faith in the light of so much uncertainty!!

What's the best option, to wait it out until approx 12 months time or hope that something definite is announced in the next week or two - it's doing my head in?

Who is the person on this forum with the crystal ball? I mean that person must exist because we keep getting these questions here.

If you're waiting for the latest technology you'll never buy a computer. My Powerbook does everything I need it to do and just because Mactels will be out sometime next year isn't driving me around the twist, after all I have no intention of buying a first release version of a Mactel. Take the current line of Powerbooks for example, I'm on revision D for goodness sake , and I'm sure the Mactels will go through the same process. Does that mean when you've waited for the Mactels that you'll then wait for the next update of it or maybe the next or maybe the next after that??

Just because a pentium chip is going into Macs next year doesn't mean the ppc chips will suddenly cease to work or that companies will stop developing for ppc, there are millions of us out there you know (the world is a big place).

 

[Sun Baked]

Who is the person on this forum with the crystal ball? I mean that person must exist because we keep getting these questions here.

He moved on a couple years ago, seemed he kept trying to shove the crystal ball into one of the newbie's openings.

We thought it was quite funny, but the newbies didn't.

Edit: Don't think we've had a newbie stress tester since.

 

[alexeismertin]

Consider the UK Refurb store?

Obviously this only applies to the UK, but I am also in need of a powerbook and I just noticed (a few moments ago) that the prices on the UK refurb store are lower than yesterday but the stated % discount is the same.

Yesterday 1.5Ghz 15" 512Ram - £1103 (20% discount)
Today 1.5Ghz 15" 512Ram - £1003 (20% discount)

Shipping remains 8 days! - so if something does occur in the following weeks you've got time to cancel order/return etc (no restocking fee in the UK).

 

[alexeismertin]

I did it

Just bought the 15" 1.5 for £981

£400 off the usual store price.

 

[nomad01]

Yesterday 1.5Ghz 15" 512Ram - £1103 (20% discount)
Today 1.5Ghz 15" 512Ram - £1003 (20% discount)

I've got an additional £18 discount voucher meaning £985 for the basic 15" powerbook.

Damn you!!

Powermacs have the extra 100 off too. Nearer 25% off the 2.3 model now. I've got a £20 voucher too. Ohhhh the pain.

 

[Cloudgazer]

While it's perfectly true that progress renders all purchased technology obsolete quickly, there are times when it does not make sense to buy.

The current powerbooks have not been updated in a *long* time, and they are way behind current standards by any measure.

I don't undersand people sayng the pbooks have not been updated in a "long' time.
They were update earleir in the year - its not even the end of Sept yet.

Also, I thought it was kinda pointless to compare Apples and Oranges (PC laptops)

Even though the frontside bus on a mac is much slower, doesn't the PPC architecture make up for this?
To say the Pbook can't cmpare with Win laptops at the moment is crazy.

How many win laptops actually have VRAM for graphics?
In my experience, not many, except the top of the range, which price wise is the same as a mac.

1.67 PPC vs 1.6 Centrino or Petnium M or whatever they're called. not much difference there.
As for RAM, I've yet to see a laptop come with more than 512Mb as standard.

I wanted to kick myself, and Steve Jobs when i heard about the switch to Intel, cause it happened about a month after i purchased my powerbook, but like people say, what difference does it make?
My pbook does exactly what I hoped it would, and more.
I can't keep up with the Joneses and technology all the time.

If you can make your pbook or any Mac last 3 or 4 years, you're doing very well, and can't ask for more.

 

[Santaduck]

The latest & greatest argument ( "waiting forever for the state of the art" ) does not really apply to the Intel transition.

No matter what Steve says, depending on how you define it, we've been left behind before... both in hardware and software, and the transitions (although good in the long run) are never painless at the cusp (rosetta's promise notwithstanding). Can anyone be sure that the backward compatibility of the future of apple be exactly the same with a 2006 intel mac as compared to a 2006 powerpc mac?

It also depends on your usage: wordprocessing for a student/office with a little web browsing & itunes thrown in, or all out graphics or processor-intensive tasks, be it media authoring or gaming?

Add to that the g4 vs g5 issue-- i'd get an imac g5 over a pb g4 any day.

that said, /me pats my 5 yo cube.

 

[ariechel]

Aging Powerbook, same price...

My questions is: why should we still be paying the same price for a Powerbook that is seven months old as we did when the Powerbook was new?

Wouldn't it make more sense to charge a premium for new products and then drop the price once development costs have been recovered? Apple would then have the flexibility to drop prices until they were just above production costs. That way people might not be so angered by the lack of updates...

Does anyone know whether other computer companies do this?

 

[risc]

My questions is: why should we still be paying the same price for a Powerbook that is seven months old as we did when the Powerbook was new?

Wouldn't it make more sense to charge a premium for new products and then drop the price once development costs have been recovered? Apple would then have the flexibility to drop prices until they were just above production costs. That way people might not be so angered by the lack of updates...

Does anyone know whether other computer companies do this?

LMFAO - You're new to Apple hardware aren't you? So if Apple release a new notebook tomorrow with 128 MB VRAM as standard, and a 30 MHz speed increase to take them to 1700 MHz you won't complain? PUH-LEASE! People always find something to complain about with Apple.

"Where are the updates?"
"Why is the hardware so expensive compared to $WINTEL brand?"
"Why is the hardware so crappy compared to $WINTEL brand?"
"Why am I still waiting for updates?"

Then we finally get an update and the first post about it will say

"What a crappy update!"

Apple make great Macs todays model is much nicer than yesterdays, tomorrows will be nicer than todays. If you really need to compare specs and OS X means nothing to you what is the point just buy a Wintel box you'll save a heap of cash. On the other hand if you want to use a Mac because of the thing that makes it a Mac - OS X - you really have no choice, why complain?

By the way your question about dropping price makes no business sense. No one would buy the notebook when it came out, everyone would just wait for it to drop in price. Since no one was buying them at the original price, the cost would never drop, then I'd be posting a sarcastic post about "When is my price drop coming?".

AFAIK No tier 1 PC manufacturer drops prices as you've suggested, and no Dell isn't tier 1.

Also the current Rev C 15" and Rev D 12"/17" PowerBook G4s were released on the 31st Jan 2005 they aren't exactly old. It might be worth pointing out that the 15" AL was released in 2003, had an upgrade in 2004, and one at the start of this year, based on that you're lucky if you see one at all this year. I sure hope they do bring one out though I can't wait to laugh at all the "What a lame update!" posts.

/me goes back to using his crappy PowerBook G4 1.67 GHz 15".

 

[andiwm2003]

...............By the way your question about dropping price makes no business sense. No one would buy the notebook when it came out, everyone would just wait for it to drop in price. Since no one was buying them at the original price, the cost would never drop, then I'd be posting a sarcastic post about "When is my price drop coming?".

AFAIK No tier 1 PC manufacturer drops prices as you've suggested, and no Dell isn't tier 1.

.....................

if you compare prices of titanium pb's with todays al pb (or if you compare 7 year old powermacs with todays powermacs or imacs) you will see that there is a huge price drop. apples got cheaper and better. just not within a product line, but across product lines.

in my opinion there should be a few more model and more frequent (even small) updates. that would stop this silly waiting game because nobody delays a purchase for small updates that happen all the time anyway.

 

[ariechel]

Not completely crazy - I think

LMFAO - You're new to Apple hardware aren't you? So if Apple release a new notebook tomorrow with 128 MB VRAM as standard, and a 30 MHz speed increase to take them to 1700 MHz you won't complain? PUH-LEASE! People always find something to complain about with Apple.

Of course I would be disappointed about tiny speed bumps. However, since the development costs for such a speed bump (using a drop-in processor replacement to boot) are likely to be small, I would also expect the "early adopter" premium for such a Powerbook to be small. And I don't think most people would complain if prices dropped as the technology ages.

Having a system where you pay for what you get (small improvements --> small price increases, big improvements --> big increases) would also increase the incentive for Apple to come up with Big New Things, since they could charge proportionally more for these.

By the way your question about dropping price makes no business sense. No one would buy the notebook when it came out, everyone would just wait for it to drop in price. Since no one was buying them at the original price, the cost would never drop, then I'd be posting a sarcastic post about "When is my price drop coming?".

I don't necessarily agree that no one would buy new Powerbooks immediately after their release, even if they knew that the price of the machines would drop later. A certain segment of the market is always looking to purchase the most up-to-date machine available. Particularly in the case of pro machines, I would guess this to be true. Price discrimination of the sort I had suggested is practiced widely even such high-tech industries as digital camera manufacturing, though perhaps not in the computer industry...

 

[risc]

if you compare prices of titanium pb's with todays al pb (or if you compare 7 year old powermacs with todays powermacs or imacs) you will see that there is a huge price drop. apples got cheaper and better. just not within a product line, but across product lines.

Of course but the poster above is talking about prices dropping on the current model while it is still in circulation, I don't think we'll ever see Apple do this.

 

[ariechel]

Of course but the poster above is talking about prices dropping on the current model while it is still in circulation, I don't think we'll ever see Apple do this.

You are correct. And I agree that Apple will probably not change its business practices anytime soon (especially not with all they have on their plate with the Intel transition). I was just wondering whether, in theory, it might not be a good idea for Apple to make it standard business practice to drop prices on products in circulation as they age.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think many people are holding off on their purchase of a new Powerbook because they cannot bring themselves to pay the same price that they would have paid months ago, though the technology has aged and therefore devalued. The reason people are so desperate for an any update, no matter how small, is that they have to justify the price to themselves.

 

[alexeismertin]

What are Apple up to?

I don't think Apple will ever drop their prices significantly just because the updates are negligible. They will maintain their prices by offering little things such as hard drive increases, minor processor increases etc.

The only way to get something cheaper is by discounting - it is my contention that stuff appears in their refurb store as a way of Apple offering a discount without losing face or by offering ipod/printer deals (student). In the UK you hardly ever get an significant amount of machines at the refurb store, the store opens for 1 night in the week and within hours the machines on offer are sold out. Just out of the blue Apple list endless 15" & 17" Powerbooks & single 1.8, 2.0 & 2.3 Powermacs & open the store for several weeks. This is designed to shift stock - ergo there will be updates but probably not a price drop.

Notice how ipod & ibooks are specifically listed as refurbished & powermacs & powerbooks are not (even though they appear in the refurb store)

Apple won't drop prices because of a lag in hardware only to put them up again when the intel machines arrive.

off topic did anyone see Apple get slated on BBC's Watchdog for faulty ipod batteries?

 

[RobHague]

I am really beginning to doubt the Company, and although I have mentally made the decision to switch from a windows pc am really struggling now to make that leap of faith in the light of so much uncertainty!!

What's the best option, to wait it out until approx 12 months time or hope that something definite is announced in the next week or two - it's doing my head in?

I was in a simular position to you a month ago. If i was to make the choice over again, i might still have gone with the Mac but then again i might have just held off upgrading alltogether and kept my PC for the time being.

OSX is great, stable and secure. Not having to worry about virus's and spyware is an interesting experience - just using the computer and not having to run software to remove dodgy stuff thats gotten though. The mac's are well built and ooze quality so no problems there. Software on the otherhand is another matter - im feeling the pinch at the moment in a world thats using Windows systems...

I think though i may have just gone for a MacMini - Just because i feel making an investment like i did into Apples fading PPC line was a mistake. No one knows what is going to happen but one this is clear - from here on for PPC things can only go downhill right? Plus im not looking forward to the whole 'transition' and 'universal binarys' malarky. If anything its going to delay software, and cause other problems no doubt. The whole 'PPC will be around for ages' is just Apples damage control. They dont want to kill sales do they? they have nothing else for sale - They seem to be focusing on the iPods and hoping no one asks about the Mac's...

Get a cheaper Mac if you need one, if not keep your Windows PC and wait it out. You will be glad you did im sure, maybe once the Intel Systems arrive it will be a better time to invest for more long term? However the software will still be in its infancy so it still might be worth avoiding until things get cleaned up. So come back about 2008 to 2009 j/k

 

[ariechel]

I don't think Apple will ever drop their prices significantly just because the updates are negligible. They will maintain their prices by offering little things such as hard drive increases, minor processor increases etc.

Ah, if only they did offer little things... At the moment it seems that they are intent on maintaining their prices without offering anything new.

Honestly, I think that they will update the Powerbook line soon (next 0-2 months), since as I had mentioned in a previous post Apple will probably want to put a little distance between its last PPC and its first Intel Powerbook (scheduled for June). I don't think that the updates will be major, though.

A likely reason for the long delay is the lacking mass availability of 7448 processors. If I understand correctly, Freescale will not be able to produce a sufficient quantity of these processors until October.

 

[broken_keyboard]

I pretty much agree with the original post. The lack of new computers from Apple is getting really tiresome.

I am in the market for the new flagship model, but it hasn't been updated for over 15 months (I don't consider the 2.5->2.7 "update" as worthy of acknowledgment).

 

[andiwm2003]

I pretty much agree with the original post. The lack of new computers from Apple is getting really tiresome.

I am in the market for the new flagship model, but it hasn't been updated for over 15 months (I don't consider the 2.5->2.7 "update" as worthy of acknowledgment).

the lack of new computers is only good for people selling old machines on ebay. the prices for used macs are insanely high compared to the pc world. if apple would change/update their models more often at least the ebay prices would drop and i could get a cheap mid of the line model. but with the dual g5 2.3 prices above $2000 it's IMHO better to wait for an update and get the entry model there. i would get a new machine with probably the same performance as the used powermac for the same price.

 

[Whyapple]

Well, thanx for all the contributions on both sides of the fence.

While I appreciate you cannot keep up to date with the ever changing and improving technology, I still feel that Apple are upgrading so often as to make buying a difficult process. The Intel situation probably makes it harder over the next 9 -12 months to come to any proper conclusion.

While I accept the logic of matching a current model to your actual requirements as being a cold, unemotional way to buy, I am of the mind to agree most with Rob Hague's post and wait it out a little longer on my still (unbelievably) functioning windows pc to see which way the wind blows...especially as I favour a PB above a Mac first up, and PB's seem to have an upgrade imminent!?? The Intel thing is not bothering me, just clouding the waters a little, once an upgrade takes place I can see no logical reason for not buying a PB immediately, and that is my intention.

Thanks for all the comments, it made for an interesting and enlightening read.

 

[Euan]

although I have mentally made the decision to switch from a windows pc am really struggling now to make that leap of faith in the light of so much uncertainty!!

I agree.

 

[homerdog]

I am of the mind to... wait it out a little longer... to see which way the wind blows

Stop dithering!