Do Apple have access to your Notes content?

[GreyOS]

You hit the nail on the head. Data stored on Apple’s servers can be accessed by Apple. If you want your data to be inaccessible you need to disable iCloud backup and not use any iCloud-related services (e.g., Notes only stored on-device and not accessible via iCloud from other devices), in addition to properly securing the device itself (Touch ID, password, etc.).

Of particular relevance is that enabling iMessage iCloud backup now stores a copy of all iMessages on Apple’s servers, regardless of whether they are end-to-end encrypted during transmission/receipt.
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Apple holds the encryption keys to data stored on Apple’s servers, which is why Apple handing over storage duties to a state-controlled company in China for iCloud users in the country was a big deal - they now hold the encryption keys.

Hmm, I might have just misread you but I think there’s one thing to clarify regarding Messages in iCloud. That uses end-to-end encryption but if you have iCloud back up on, it will store your key there. If you disable iCloud backup, but still use Messages in iCloud, your messages are end to end encrypted and only you have the key, so it’s secure. (See attachment)

Also, regarding Apple outsourcing data storage- they make clear in the document I linked to earlier that they still always store encryption keys on Apple owned servers, even if the data is elsewhere.

 

[MBAir2010]

they better not!

 

[NoBoMac]

Well, per the iOS Security white paper, Secure Notes are encrypted locally and using your key, not Apple's.

https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf (page 34)

Secure notes are encrypted using a user-provided passphrase that is required to view the notes on iOS, macOS, and the iCloud website.

When a user secures a note, a 16-byte key is derived from the user’s passphrase using PBKDF2 and SHA256. The note’s contents are encrypted using AES-GCM. New records are created in Core Data and CloudKit to store the encrypted note, tag, and initialization vector, and the original note records are deleted

 

[applelover4u]

You hit the nail on the head. Data stored on Apple’s servers can be accessed by Apple. If you want your data to be inaccessible you need to disable iCloud backup and not use any iCloud-related services (e.g., Notes only stored on-device and not accessible via iCloud from other devices), in addition to properly securing the device itself (Touch ID, password, etc.).

Of particular relevance is that enabling iMessage iCloud backup now stores a copy of all iMessages on Apple’s servers, regardless of whether they are end-to-end encrypted during transmission/receipt.
[doublepost=1532293560][/doublepost]
Apple holds the encryption keys to data stored on Apple’s servers, which is why Apple handing over storage duties to a state-controlled company in China for iCloud users in the country was a big deal - they now hold the encryption keys.

That’s not what their page says. How is the data encrypted? With keys that Apple hold. They’re encrypted as a safety measure against breaches and so on. But Apple can read the data, and do in rare instances when government agencies ask for it.

Seriously, read the page, it makes a point about how not even apple can read end-to-end encrypted data. The implication being they can read the other encrypted data.

Two factor has nothing to do with the encryption method, you just have to have that enabled for end-to-end encryption
[doublepost=1532170009][/doublepost] https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelines-us.pdf

This document makes clear that
a) they store the encryption keys. (This is the crucial thing which doesn’t happen with end to end and why only you can read it
b) they hand iCloud data over if there’s a warrant

Freaking ridiculous! You are right! Apple and this privacy and security talk lol how hard it is for use to ha e keys only. I'm turning icloud off because I value my privacy
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Right... Restoring from a new device must be a product of magic then, as well as accessing your data from another device or from a browser. You got the cloud concept wrong.

Your right . I was wrong

 

[winrock]

I think only Apple knows.

 

[applelover4u]

they better not!

Yes unfortunately they do hold the keys.
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Well, per the iOS Security white paper, Secure Notes are encrypted locally and using your key, not Apple's.

https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf (page 34)

Yes if you turn on notes password. If icloud is on then regardless apple hold the keys and can retrieve unencrypted data if needed

 

[aristobrat]

Some of the replies to this thread confuse me.

Apple wrote a very short, non-technical Apple Support article (IMO) about iCloud security:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

This article was mentioned in the very first reply to this thread, as well as a few other times...

I know some folks hate reading support articles, but good lord, you only have to wade in to the THIRD and FOURTH sentences to see that Apple can not decrypt some iCloud data:

For certain sensitive information, Apple uses end-to-end encryption. This means that only you can access your information, and only on devices where you’re signed into iCloud. No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end encrypted information.

And then Apple has a whole sub-section of the document that lists the End-to-end encrypted data (that no one else can decrypt):

These features and their data are transmitted and stored in iCloud using end-to-end encryption:

• Home data
• Health data
• iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords)
• Payment information
• Siri information
• Wi-Fi network information

To use end-to-end encryption, you must have two-factor authentication turned on for your Apple ID. To access your data on a new device, you might have to enter the passcode for an existing or former device.

Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures you can recover your Messages if you lose access to iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. When you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages and isn't stored by Apple.

It seems clear about which iCloud data can be decrypted by others and which iCloud data can't.

 

[LoveToMacRumors]

Some of the replies to this thread confuse me.

Apple wrote a very short, non-technical Apple Support article (IMO) about iCloud security:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

This article was mentioned in the very first reply to this thread, as well as a few other times...

I know some folks hate reading support articles, but good lord, you only have to wade in to the THIRD and FOURTH sentences to see that Apple can not decrypt some iCloud data:



And then Apple has a whole sub-section of the document that lists the End-to-end encrypted data (that no one else can decrypt):



It seems clear about which iCloud data can be decrypted by others and which iCloud data can't.

Shyt, it means Apple can decrypt the nudes I put in notes, that I locked

 

[GreyOS]

Shyt, it means Apple can decrypt the nudes I put in notes, that I locked

Well... then I think someone goes on to point out that Secure Notes (those with a password?) are encrypted with your key, not Apple's, so I think those are safe..?

 

[applelover4u]

Some of the replies to this thread confuse me.

Apple wrote a very short, non-technical Apple Support article (IMO) about iCloud security:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

This article was mentioned in the very first reply to this thread, as well as a few other times...

I know some folks hate reading support articles, but good lord, you only have to wade in to the THIRD and FOURTH sentences to see that Apple can not decrypt some iCloud data:



And then Apple has a whole sub-section of the document that lists the End-to-end encrypted data (that no one else can decrypt):



It seems clear about which iCloud data can be decrypted by others and which iCloud data can't.

Yes but this thread is about Notes. Apple hold the key to notes. They hold the key to everything except what you lists above
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Shyt, it means Apple can decrypt the nudes I put in notes, that I locked

Well what if your wife wanted to prove to divorce lawyer your a cheater or scum or have a sex problem the lawyer could subpoena apple for your records. Notes,contacts lost, safari browsing habit and more


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It seems clear about which iCloud data can be decrypted by others and which iCloud data can't.

Icloud data can be decrypted except what you listed which is Keychain, wallet, health information,home payment,Siri, and wifi

All others can and has been decrypted for law enforcement and fbi even your backups
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Well... then I think someone goes on to point out that Secure Notes (those with a password?) are encrypted with your key, not Apple's, so I think those are safe..?

The way that works it's secured locally on your phone but not in icloud. That is what I got from it. Hopefully we can discuss this and get further clarification

 

[jonblatho]

Of particular relevance is that enabling iMessage iCloud backup now stores a copy of all iMessages on Apple’s servers, regardless of whether they are end-to-end encrypted during transmission/receipt.

Messages in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted and stores both iMessages and SMS/MMS messages. Apple or a third party can only access the messages if they have access to a device backup—local backup or iCloud—which contains the iMessage encryption keys.

That is to say, if:

• You have Messages in iCloud on, and
• You have iCloud Backup off, and
• You’re encrypting local iOS backups with a strong password, or you don’t back up at all,

then Messages in iCloud remains truly end-to-end encrypted.

 

[applelover4u]

Messages in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted and stores both iMessages and SMS/MMS messages. Apple or a third party can only access the messages if they have access to a device backup—local backup or iCloud—which contains the iMessage encryption keys.

That is to say, if:

• You have Messages in iCloud on, and
• You have iCloud Backup off, and
• You’re encrypting local iOS backups with a strong password, or you don’t back up at all,

then Messages in iCloud remains truly end-to-end encrypted.

How would they have access to your local backup?

 

[jonblatho]

How would they have access to your local backup?

If, for example, law enforcement gets access to search your computer as part of an investigation. I posted that as a clarification to another comment, which referred to concerns of access by Apple or, by extension, third parties such as law enforcement or governments.

Apple itself would be uninterested in local iOS device backups.

 

[rafark]

Freaking ridiculous! You are right! Apple and this privacy and security talk lol how hard it is for use to ha e keys only. I'm turning icloud off because I value my privacy
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Your right . I was wrong

My point is, don't worry about it too much. Unless you have very sensitive data, most of the time you are better off by making use of the advantages technology has to offer.
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Apple itself would be uninterested in local iOS device backups.

The are very much interested. This kind of data is gold to companies as it gives them a picture of how their products are being used and the decisions they can make based on behavioural analysis. The more feedback they can get the better.

 

[jonblatho]

The are very much interested. This kind of data is gold to companies as it gives them a picture of how their products are being used and the decisions they can make based on behavioural analysis. The more feedback they can get the better.

Sure, but Apple doesn’t use that. By default, iOS collects and sends analytics data by itself with an option to opt out in the Settings app and while setting up iOS.

Even then, most if not all analytics data is made unidentifiable—a major sticking point for Apple—through differential privacy and other methods. Not so if they poke around in backups.

 

[applelover4u]

My point is, don't worry about it too much. Unless you have very sensitive data, most of the time you are better off by making use of the advantages technology has to offer.
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O I'm going to worry about it. I really dont like my data out there like that where people can access if needed and we never know exactly what apple does with our data. Hw many times have we trusted a company and they done us wrong. Example facebook
[doublepost=1532560107][/doublepost]So I suppose they have the keys to our apple mail as well?

 

[onepoint]

Messages in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted and stores both iMessages and SMS/MMS messages. Apple or a third party can only access the messages if they have access to a device backup—local backup or iCloud—which contains the iMessage encryption keys.

That is to say, if:

• You have Messages in iCloud on, and
• You have iCloud Backup off, and
• You’re encrypting local iOS backups with a strong password, or you don’t back up at all,

then Messages in iCloud remains truly end-to-end encrypted.

..yes. That’s what I said - “enabling iMessage iCloud backup” is what opens the door. Was there confusion?

Edit: I see there was (and is) confusion and you were clarifying my comments, understood