Do USA watch S10's have the blood Oxygen sensor

[JPack]

Apple isn't likely to include SpO2 hardware when they know full well it's not being used.

Why would they include it? U.S. customers already bought Watch 10 without the feature. There's no benefit to Apple to re-enable hardware some years down the road.

S9 and Ultra 2 included the hardware because the ITC injunction was unexpected. Apple wasn't going to recall every Watch in the supply chain and rip out the sensor. With S10, they knew it was banned. So why include unused hardware? Apple replaced the SIM tray with a plastic spacer just to save $0.50 on every U.S. model iPhone. If the SpO2 sensor costs $2, they'll do the same. It costs nothing to delete a part.

 

[dz5b609]

Apple isn't likely to include SpO2 hardware when they know full well it's not being used.

Why would they include it? U.S. customers already bought Watch 10 without the feature. There's no benefit to Apple to re-enable hardware some years down the road.

S9 and Ultra 2 included the hardware because the ITC injunction was unexpected. Apple wasn't going to recall every Watch in the supply chain and rip out the sensor. With S10, they knew it was banned. So why include unused hardware? Apple replaced the SIM tray with a plastic spacer just to save $0.50 on every U.S. model iPhone. If the SpO2 sensor costs $2, they'll do the same. It costs nothing to delete a part.

But they did and do.

 

[JPack]

But they did and do.

Source?

 

[jz0309]

Source?

That is the question , there is no proof that is is included nor is there proof that it is not.
Apple knows, everyone else is speculating until we see a tear down…

 

[FSMBP]

SPo2 sensor hardware is still in U.S. watches, Apple disabled it through software.. Here's the MacRumors article:

Apple Watch Pulse Oximetry Can Be Reactivated Through Software in 2028 or With Successful Appeal

Apple has been selling the Apple Watch Series 9 and Apple Watch Ultra 2 without the blood oxygen monitoring feature in the U.S. since mid-January,...

www.macrumors.com

Another article from TechRadar about the S10:

Apple Watch Series 10 and Ultra 2 may get blood oxygen monitoring back, hints leaker

Finally!

www.techradar.com

Excellent - thanks!!!

 

[BugeyeSTI]

Source?

Considering there's only one model# for North America, Europe and Asia Pacific S10's why would Apple have a specific sensor pack for only watches sold in the U.S.? Seems easier and cheaper to include the hardware as it's basically the same as the sensors used on the S6-S9. SPo2 works in Canada and Mexico if it's the same model# IMO all S10's still have the sensor..

Identify your Apple Watch - Apple Support

Look up your Apple Watch model, collection, and color.

support.apple.com

As others have said, there's no proof it was or wasn't removed.

 

[Bichon]

Considering there's only one model# for North America, Europe and Asia Pacific S10's why would Apple have a specific sensor pack for only watches sold in the U.S.?

Actually, looking up the part number of a 46mm GPS series 10 on Best Buy's US website shows model number MWWQ3LW/A and looking up the same watch on Best Buy's Canadian website shows model number MWWQ3AM/A

If you'll recall, the LW/A suffix, at least on the series 9 and Ultra2, was used to differentiate the watches sold after the import ban so that the SpO2 could be disabled in software until the legal issues are settled.

I'll bet the suffix has the same meaning on the series 10 watches.

 

[JPack]

Considering there's only one model# for North America, Europe and Asia Pacific S10's why would Apple have a specific sensor pack for only watches sold in the U.S.? Seems easier and cheaper to include the hardware as it's basically the same as the sensors used on the S6-S9. SPo2 works in Canada and Mexico if it's the same model# IMO all S10's still have the sensor..

Identify your Apple Watch - Apple Support

Look up your Apple Watch model, collection, and color.

support.apple.com

As others have said, there's no proof it was or wasn't removed.

Same model number but different part numbers. The model number seems to be associated with radios and frequencies, while part numbers represent different chassis colors and storage capacities. Any difference in SpO2 hardware is likely captured in the part number rather than model number.

For example, Apple shows different part numbers for the same Series 10 GPS, 46mm Jet Black Aluminum Case with Black Sport Band - M/L:

• U.S. = MWX13LW
• Canada = MWX13AM

They also have very different delivery dates. Here's Seattle vs. Vancouver, cities that are only 150 miles apart. If both Watches are identical except for labels/packaging, the one week difference in delivery dates is weird assuming both ship from China.

Of course, this is all conjecture but I believe there is a difference in hardware. With S9, Apple may have been caught unprepared. But with S10, Apple knew nearly a year in advance the ban was in place. If the ban is lifted, Apple would likely add the SpO2 sensor in the next gen Watch, rather than silently add it back to current U.S. models. The original marketing is already disseminated, so there's very little benefit to restoring the SpO2 feature silently.

 

[jabbawok]

Same model number but different part numbers. The model number seems to be associated with radios and frequencies, while part numbers represent different chassis colors and storage capacities. Any difference in SpO2 hardware is likely captured in the part number rather than model number.

For example, Apple shows different part numbers for the same Series 10 GPS, 46mm Jet Black Aluminum Case with Black Sport Band - M/L:

• U.S. = MWX13LW
• Canada = MWX13AM

They also have very different delivery dates. Here's Seattle vs. Vancouver, cities that are only 150 miles apart. If both Watches are identical except for labels/packaging, the one week difference in delivery dates is weird assuming both ship from China.

View attachment 2432380
View attachment 2432381

Of course, this is all conjecture but I believe there is a difference in hardware. With S9, Apple may have been caught unprepared. But with S10, Apple knew nearly a year in advance the ban was in place. If the ban is lifted, Apple would likely add the SpO2 sensor in the next gen Watch, rather than silently add it back to current U.S. models. The original marketing is already disseminated, so there's very little benefit to restoring the SpO2 feature silently.

Changing a byte of code to the USA watches part number is virtually zero cost, but building two different sensor packs would be quite costly as they’re all integrated. I doubt the cost saving of removing the sensor would outweigh the cost of engineering a USA specific sensor pack. It’s very common practice in a lot of tech and automotive to enable hardware that’s present in software to differentiate models. Tesla did it with the heated rear seats. Every car had them and they were just not enabled in software. I’m pretty sure later they just enabled them on all cars through an update. Not the same situation, but similar.

 

[JPack]

Changing a byte of code to the USA watches part number is virtually zero cost, but building two different sensor packs would be quite costly as they’re all integrated. I doubt the cost saving of removing the sensor would outweigh the cost of engineering a USA specific sensor pack. It’s very common practice in a lot of tech and automotive to enable hardware that’s present in software to differentiate models. Tesla did it with the heated rear seats. Every car had them and they were just not enabled in software. I’m pretty sure later they just enabled them on all cars through an update. Not the same situation, but similar.

Why would it be quite costly? It’s literally just picking or not picking the SpO2 sensor to solder to the logic board. That’s zero cost.

Look the latest AirPods 4. The only hardware difference with the ANC version is literally a slightly larger microphone. Apple could have added $0.50 to the bill of materials to all non-ANC variants. The whole AirPod is glued and integrated together even more so than Watch. But they chose to have separate hardware for the two models.

Tesla is entirely different. They’re selling heated seats as a $300 OTA upgrade. Apple isn’t getting any more money even after they choose to reactivate SpO2.

 

[jabbawok]

Why would it be quite costly? It’s literally just picking or not picking the SpO2 sensor to solder to the logic board. That’s zero cost.

Look the latest AirPods 4. The only hardware difference with the ANC version is literally a slightly larger microphone. Apple could have added $0.50 to the bill of materials to all non-ANC variants. The whole AirPod is glued and integrated together even more so than Watch. But they chose to have separate hardware for the two models.

Tesla is entirely different. They’re selling heated seats as a $300 OTA upgrade. Apple isn’t getting any more money even after they choose to reactivate SpO2.

It depends. May parts proved both structural and functional roles in a product. Maybe the sensor shares some of its functionality with the pulse sensor. Maybe you can just not fit the sensor, maybe you have to put something in its place that provides the structural role it previously did or role in the pulse sensor it played. You might be right. Making that decision about whether you can just leave it out is a cost in ‘engineering time’ testing and validation has to be done to verify there’s no adverse effects of the change. You’d be amazed how much that ends up costing. And sometimes that cost is more than just leaving the part in. The reason I’m in the USA right now is proving a production line for a customer and if we change any aspect of the manufacture we have to re validate, which means making a few hundred samples and having them tested by a 3rd party. It’s very expensive and more importantly delays production, so often changes just aren’t worth making.

Also in Europe and I suspect in the USA, if a device is classified as a medical device any change requires separate validation. I had a customer that was using TeamViewer to monitor a medical device they manufacture and when I said we could save the licence and use vnc or rdp as we had lan access they said they’d have to re validate and they’d lose any savings from ditching teamviewer.

Also I think it’s likely Apple thought the patent dispute would have been resolved by the launch of the S10 so it makes some sense to hedge bets and leave the part in.
You might be right, but don’t think you are. I guess I’ll find out soon enough.

 

[goldmac2006]

If I am correct, it will be enabled or disabled based on where your apple ID is registered. In other words, if your HQ is in UK, buying a watch in USA and register it with a UK Apple ID should enable the Blood O2 sensor. Based on many people on this form, they claim the blood O2 hardware is in every watch sold in USA but disabled by software based on where it is activated and the apple ID as well as when the watch is manufactured. In other words, it should work out for you since your apple ID is probably registered in UK.

Of course, if it doesn't work out you can always return the watch in 14 days.

However, if you don't want to deal with all these drama, it might be best to make the purchase in UK in case of what I said above is incorrect.

It goes by model number. American 🇺🇸 Apple Watch S10s will have LW/A so it will be disabled but you can give it a try with a UK/EU Apple account and try opening the blood oxygen app. If it shows an error message then it is disabled.

Users with US model Apple Watch S9s from launch day and 2023 natural titanium Apple Watch Ultra 2 will still get it regardless if they sign in with an American Apple ID or not, including older series American Apple Watch cellular model. My S6 i bought it new and is a cellular USA 🇺🇸 watch but as it has no LW/A and I use USA Apple ID still works blood oxygen on watchOS 11.1 beta.

Blood oxygen hardware and sensors are still inside the Apple Watch series 10, even with S9 as the back heart rate sensors are still the same type.

 

[JPack]

It depends. May parts proved both structural and functional roles in a product. Maybe the sensor shares some of its functionality with the pulse sensor. Maybe you can just not fit the sensor, maybe you have to put something in its place that provides the structural role it previously did or role in the pulse sensor it played. You might be right. Making that decision about whether you can just leave it out is a cost in ‘engineering time’ testing and validation has to be done to verify there’s no adverse effects of the change. You’d be amazed how much that ends up costing. And sometimes that cost is more than just leaving the part in. The reason I’m in the USA right now is proving a production line for a customer and if we change any aspect of the manufacture we have to re validate, which means making a few hundred samples and having them tested by a 3rd party. It’s very expensive and more importantly delays production, so often changes just aren’t worth making.

Also in Europe and I suspect in the USA, if a device is classified as a medical device any change requires separate validation. I had a customer that was using TeamViewer to monitor a medical device they manufacture and when I said we could save the licence and use vnc or rdp as we had lan access they said they’d have to re validate and they’d lose any savings from ditching teamviewer.

Also I think it’s likely Apple thought the patent dispute would have been resolved by the launch of the S10 so it makes some sense to hedge bets and leave the part in.
You might be right, but don’t think you are. I guess I’ll find out soon enough.

Apple is the largest company in the world connected the most efficient manufacturers in the world. Luxshare and Foxconn specialize in EMS engineering. It's their bread and butter. There's a reason why most production and EMS work isn't done in the U.S. or Europe - it's inefficient, lack of skills, and very expensive.

What doesn't make sense for a small company's production line makes sense for Apple. They sell a Watch to every third iPhone owner in the U.S. That's a lot of Watches and adds up to much potential savings if parts are deleted.

The AirPods 4 (ANC) example shows they're willing to save pennies on hardware instead of relying on firmware differences to delete features. On Mac, customers who choose lower storage options will notice their logic board is missing passive components that cost fractions of a penny.

Why would Apple think the patent dispute would resolve on its own? It's been ongoing since 2020. Keep in mind they did not negotiate with Masimo at all. Instead, they let the lawyers fight it out. It's clear they don't want to pay and would rather wait for patent expiry in 2028.

 

[dotme]

...Apple isn’t getting any more money even after they choose to reactivate SpO2.

I didn't upgrade to the Series 10 due to the lack of SpO2 support so they would get more money from me, at least if the hardware is still inside and can be reactivated upon resolution of the dispute.

My understanding is that Masimo's CEO & Founder resigned a couple of weeks ago. Maybe I'm crazy but I'm holding out a tiny bit of hope that there could be a fresh round of negotiations with new leadership.

 

[jabbawok]

Apple is the largest company in the world connected the most efficient manufacturers in the world. Luxshare and Foxconn specialize in EMS engineering. It's their bread and butter. There's a reason why most production and EMS work isn't done in the U.S. or Europe - it's inefficient, lack of skills, and very expensive.

What doesn't make sense for a small company's production line makes sense for Apple. They sell a Watch to every third iPhone owner in the U.S. That's a lot of Watches and adds up to much potential savings if parts are deleted.

The AirPods 4 (ANC) example shows they're willing to save pennies on hardware instead of relying on firmware differences to delete features. On Mac, customers who choose lower storage options will notice their logic board is missing passive components that cost fractions of a penny.

Why would Apple think the patent dispute would resolve on its own? It's been ongoing since 2020. Keep in mind they did not negotiate with Masimo at all. Instead, they let the lawyers fight it out. It's clear they don't want to pay and would rather wait for patent expiry in 2028.

I’d disagree with the lack of skills. I have sold several pieces of manufacturing hardware to China that wasn’t cheap but there wasn’t a Chinese company capable of building it. What they have is abundant, cheap labour. They often use European and American skills to set up production.

Also what you say doesn’t negate the possibility that the sensors may be integrated in such a way that it’s cheaper to leave it in than take it out. I’m not suggesting that Apple’s manufacturing partners lack the skill to do it in a cost effective way. I’m suggesting there may not be a cost effective way.

 

[BugeyeSTI]

Just curious but is the SPo2 app still listed in he app list on U.S. S10 watches? The S9's and Ultra2's that had SPo2 disabled still had the app, it just said this feature is unavailable..

 

[PCtoMAC1]

Just curious but is the SPo2 app still listed in he app list on U.S. S10 watches? The S9's and Ultra2's that had SPo2 disabled still had the app, it just said this feature is unavailable..

Yes, the app is still listed and is disabled.

 

[goldmac2006]

Yes, the app is still listed and is disabled.

It will be the same way as the S9s with the LW/A would as well.

 

[BugeyeSTI]

Yes, the app is still listed and is disabled.

It will be the same way as the S9s with the LW/A would as well.

Seems likely IMO that the SPo2 hardware is still present in the U.S. watches. if they removed the hardware, why wouldn't they remove the app.

 

[JPack]

Seems likely IMO that the SPo2 hardware is still present in the U.S. watches. if they removed the hardware, why wouldn't they remove the app.

Maybe for support reasons. For Series 6-8 owners, if they upgrade to 9-10 and are unfamiliar with the situation, they might call AppleCare or go to the Apple Store to ask about the missing feature.

 

[BugeyeSTI]

Maybe for support reasons. For Series 6-8 owners, if they upgrade to 9-10 and are unfamiliar with the situation, they might call AppleCare or go to the Apple Store to ask about the missing feature.

Their CS and stores receive phone calls and inquiries from people that are clueless all the time. If such a person didn't know about the situation and saw that message they would most likely call or go in to a store anyway thinking something was wrong with the device..

 

[JPack]

Their CS and stores receive phone calls and inquiries from people that are clueless all the time. If such a person didn't know about the situation and saw that message they would most likely call or go in to a store anyway thinking something was wrong with the device..

It’s about reducing the number of calls, as it’s impossible to eliminate completely. If Apple can reduce the number of calls, they’ll do that.

The app is maybe 50MB and under the reactivation theory, would require a software update anyway. Whether the app is included in U.S. models doesn’t suggest one way or another about the hardware.

 

[goldmac2006]

Seems likely IMO that the SPo2 hardware is still present in the U.S. watches. if they removed the hardware, why wouldn't they remove the app.

I did have the same assumption about the blood oxygen hardware below 👇
Post in thread 'Do USA watch s10s have the blood Oxygen sensor'
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...the-blood-oxygen-sensor.2438588/post-33464655

The user guide on Apple website for watchOS 11 still lists blood oxygen app (with a disclaimer regarding this information) with the S10s on it. I checked USA Apple website.

 

[BugeyeSTI]

I did have the same assumption about the blood oxygen hardware below 👇
Post in thread 'Do USA watch s10s have the blood Oxygen sensor'
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...the-blood-oxygen-sensor.2438588/post-33464655

The user guide on Apple website for watchOS 11 still lists blood oxygen app (with a disclaimer regarding this information) with the S10s on it. I checked USA Apple website.

Isn't that this thread? I've also found articles stating the hardware is still in the S10's just disabled but nothing official. I suppose it will take a teardown that specifically looks for it or Apple coming out to clarify the issue. I'm not holding my breath on Apple clarifying it as they rarely comment on things like that but a teardown is a possibility. I'd be more inclined to purchase a newer watch if the hardware was still included even if we have to wait for the patent to expire in 2028 for it to get enabled. I just had my S6 replaced under AppleCare+ due to the battery showing 79% capacity and "service battery" notification. The SPo2 sensor is enabled (which I was expecting) and I can use it as a second watch for sleep monitoring if I do decide to get an Ultra2, 46mm jet black or 46mm slate titanium down the road

 

[ryanmp]

I’m sure the spO2 hardware is still in the US watches.

Similar to Australia where for years and years the TGA had not approved the ECG functionality. One day they approved it, quick update and all the watches had the ECG.