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4389842

Cancelled
Jan 7, 2017
179
267
Lotto Pro and Launch Box.
Are you for real? Complaining some shifty emulator SW from the days of W7 does not run on an M1 Mac?

Get retroarch or any of the other myriad emulators out there.

As for other x86 software, I have not come across a single binary which does not run in either Docker or W11 Arm on Parallels.
 
Last edited:

4389842

Cancelled
Jan 7, 2017
179
267
Ah, the company wasn’t Apple huh? This must have been one of the soldered SSD Macs? I don’t blame you. Sorry to hear it.

Of all the reasons I’ve scoffed at soldered SSD’s, I haven’t ever considered that — what happens with the computer dies but the data is still intact? Good to know.
Use FileVault
 

VivienM

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2022
496
341
Toronto, ON
I just didn't realize that they decided to go back to the major major drawback of the Mac that they had before in software incompatibility.
One observation I will make - you are forgetting that a lot of things, if not most new things, written for desktop machines in the past decade/decade and a half are designed for Chrome, not Windows. And even a good chunk of things that pass themselves off as native (Authy, I'm looking at you...) are just Electron, which is basically Chrome.

Chrome/Electron runs just as poorly on Apple Silicon/OS X as it does on x86/Windows. Equal opportunity inefficiency!

In fact, I was reading something depressing a few days ago talking about Meta's Threads in that context. Apparently people now assume "desktop" version of something means "web-browser-based" (as opposed to mobile, where there's a lot more native apps). Made me sad.

Bottom line - this is not the world of 25 years ago at the height of the dark era where the Mac market share was tiny. Just look at how quickly most of the major players ported their software to Apple Silicon - Adobe, Microsoft, etc were on Apple Silicon very quickly compared to the years it took them to get Intel Mac versions in the Intel transition... or even to migrate from 68K to PPC.
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
Refurbished thinkpads. You'd be surprised how cheap you can get them (despite being quite expensive new). Corporations buy them in bulk and dump them every few years, so relatively recent ones end up entering the market fairly frequently in massive numbers.
I second that, used thinkpads are a great buy and as long as they have SSD's instead of old style HDD's, they're quite usable. I actually do my work with newer thinkpads and my Mac's are for idle time these days.
 
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Roller

macrumors 68030
Jun 25, 2003
2,956
2,171
I guess I didn't realize how much of a compatibility issue using an ARM M1 MAC would really be. When my Intel refurb Mac burned up 60 days in, I figured I should grab the most updated model of the Mac Studio. And that was a mistake, it appears.

So I ran into a couple of issues lately with some past Windows software that I wanted to use again. To be fair, I didn't think I'd want to use the software back when I bought this computer back earlier in the year. But, now I do. Anyway.

Is there any possible way to force these programs to run on Windows 11 in the Parallels software?

Or am I screwed?

It was a really great thing to have Intel Macs that could run any software imaginable. Sigh.
I have no quarrel with your need to use a couple of applications that won't run on your Mac Studio. As many others have pointed out, there are relatively inexpensive solutions.

But I don't think it's fair to characterize your problem as "software compatibility crap" or lament the loss of Intel Macs, as if Apple should have kept them around. IMO, the advent of Apple Silicon was a renaissance for the Mac platform, even if the shift away from Intel, which didn't occur immediately, was an inconvenience for some people.
 

VivienM

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2022
496
341
Toronto, ON
I second that, used thinkpads are a great buy and as long as they have SSD's instead of old style HDD's, they're quite usable. I actually do my work with newer thinkpads and my Mac's are for idle time these days.
What about off-lease desktops? Up here, at least, Dell sells off-lease desktops in good condition directly. They're cheap (especially during their month end promotions), reliable, and will probably last forever (or at least until Microsoft throws more arbitrary requirements in their OS). Parts for OptiPlexes, e.g. if you wanted the mounting brackets or cables for different storage configurations, tend to be plentiful on eBay. I'm seeing some HDD-equipped i5-8500s (so ready for Windows 11) for $229 CAD; an SSD-equipped one (256G) for $249 CAD.

My worry about used laptops is that many ThinkPads or Dell Latitudes, just like the Macs, are prone to battery swelling and... well... it's not exactly as easy to get repair parts for that as it with the Macs. I just e-wasted my dad's old Latitude E7470 last week due to battery swelling... made me quite sad, too, but...
 
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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
16,263
11,764
Not all of us can financially get a new computer every month. But, in a year after I pay off my Mac Studio, definitely.
Thanks to the highly competitive PC market, you dont need to break any of your body parts to afford a separate PC. Even the “budget“ options (as long as you don’t go below $400) are pretty decent for tasks not asking for a beefy GPU. Forget about parallel and whatnot. Microsoft will surely make ARM Windows better because they want their own surface lineup to have a couple models with amazing battery life, but Windows Run on their own ARM is very unlikely to be compatible with Apple silicon, given how ARM underlying architecture differ greatly from vendor to vendor Because of their specific optimisation.
 

VivienM

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2022
496
341
Toronto, ON
Thanks to the highly competitive PC market, you dont need to break any of your body parts to afford a separate PC. Even the “budget“ options (as long as you don’t go below $400) are pretty decent for tasks not asking for a beefy GPU.
While I largely agree, one has to be careful when looking at the low-end of the Windows/PC market. You can get a good deal on a perfectly respectable 11th-gen Core i5 machine (sure, the 11th gen is two generations old now, but it was a real, serious CPU) and next to it, for $30 less, there's something with a low-end CPU that is barely faster than a high-end C2Q from the late 2000s. Also avoid anything with eMMC storage, small amounts of soldered RAM without a SODIMM slot for expansion, etc.
 
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MauiPa

macrumors 68040
Apr 18, 2018
3,438
5,084
I am really confused by this post. to paraphrase it sounds like you wanted a Windows computer and bought a Mac instead (Which Microsoft won't fully support Windows on ARM as a full windows) and now you are upset that Windows software doesn't run? I guess if I bought a Windows computer to run Mac software, I might be upset that it didn't (No, I would never do that). Yes, I suppose it was great when you could use bootcamp on Intel Macs, but it was well publicized that Redmond was not licensing windows on ARM, then they started, but their Windows on ARM is only a less capable version of the full windows.
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
16,263
11,764
While I largely agree, one has to be careful when looking at the low-end of the Windows/PC market. You can get a good deal on a perfectly respectable 11th-gen Core i5 machine (sure, the 11th gen is two generations old now, but it was a real, serious CPU) and next to it, for $30 less, there's something with a low-end CPU that is barely faster than a high-end C2Q from the late 2000s. Also avoid anything with eMMC storage, small amounts of soldered RAM without a SODIMM slot for expansion, etc.
Yeah, with Mac package, everyone knows what to expect, unlike PC. Same amount of money spent, result can be drastically different from one another.
 

VivienM

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2022
496
341
Toronto, ON
Yeah, with Mac package, everyone knows what to expect, unlike PC. Same amount of money spent, result can be drastically different from one another.
More importantly, Apple doesn't sell garbage. Someone might debate whether the base model Mac mini or MacBook Air configuration is good enough for particular needs and perhaps the storage or RAM should be more, but they're not garbage.

There are a lot of low-end PC systems that are pure garbage in subtle little ways - lousy wifi cards, lousy wired networking (not that long ago, Dell was giving low-end consumer laptops an Ethernet jack still... 10/100 megabit Ethernet to be precise), lousy hard drives (it's not just hard drives vs SSDs - today's OEM hard drives are going to be worse than 10 years ago's - some PC OEMs have even shipped SMR drives as boot drives, I think), lousy screens, dreadfully slow processors, etc.

For example, I found a "lovely" $299 CAD laptop at Worst Buy. 4 gigs of RAM, 128 gigs SSD, and an Intel N4020 processor, all running Windows 11. Then I go to Geekbench, and, oh, the N4020 gets around 380 single-core, 600 multi-core. My 12-year-old Sandy Bridge laptops with an i7-2630QM get around 500 single-core, 1500 multi-core (but hey, they don't meet Microsoft's "performance and reliability expectations" for Windows 11). Hell, a first-generation high-end C2D is in the high-300s single-core and 600 multi-core, and those processors are almost old enough to vote! Some of these low-end Windows machines are just pure garbage...
 

ArkSingularity

macrumors 6502a
Mar 5, 2022
928
1,130
I second that, used thinkpads are a great buy and as long as they have SSD's instead of old style HDD's, they're quite usable. I actually do my work with newer thinkpads and my Mac's are for idle time these days.
Yep, agreed. They're pretty much my go-to recommendation anytime anyone asks for advice on getting a cheap computer, I'm surprised more people don't know about them on the refurbished markets. I bought my T490 (with an upgraded CPU, 16GB of RAM, and a touchscreen) for around $300 from Amazon, and I got a far better computer than I would have gotten spending twice the money on something new at the time.

Supply and demand works in the buyer's favor on these used markets. Corporations dump them in such massive numbers that it pushes the price down.
 
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bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
What about off-lease desktops?
They work too. :)
My worry about used laptops is that many ThinkPads or Dell Latitudes, just like the Macs, are prone to battery swelling and... well... it's not exactly as easy to get repair parts for that as it with the Macs. I just e-wasted my dad's old Latitude E7470 last week due to battery swelling... made me quite sad, too, but...
That's definitely a worry for laptops, but if you limit battery charging to 80% or so, that usually wont become a problem. I use an app to do that, or some laptops have it built into the BIOS.
 
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tubuliferous

macrumors member
Jul 13, 2011
78
81
Wow

I have, and many apps. More things run than don't, but don't ever think that all things run in WoA.
Interesting...

I hate to pass the blame, but from where I'm standing the problems seem mostly related to Microsoft's lack of a comprehensive compatibility layer for x86 software on ARM Windows. While it doesn't help Mac users in the short term that Microsoft is the main barrier to a better Windows-on-Mac experience, the good news is that the current issues will likely be addressed by Microsoft in the future as the PC industry (and Microsoft in particular) further embrace ARM, even if Microsoft spurns Macs.

So...the present situation is a bummer, but I think most of the current constraints to running Windows software on MacOS will be resolved in the longterm.
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
I hate to pass the blame, but from where I'm standing the problems seem mostly related to Microsoft's lack of a comprehensive compatibility layer for x86 software on ARM Windows.
It's actually different than that, more the way some x86 developers coded, but yeah, I'd put the blame on microsoft as well. But if Microsoft wasn't the way they are we wouldn't have such a versatile and long lived ecosystem, and for that I'm more than happy with the state of things.

For Mac users needing Windows compatibility, that's not Microsoft's fault, it's more the purchasers folly. (myself included)

While it doesn't help Mac users in the short term that Microsoft is the main barrier to a better Windows-on-Mac experience, the good news is that the current issues will likely be addressed by Microsoft in the future as the PC industry (and Microsoft in particular) further embrace ARM, even if Microsoft spurns Macs.
They wont ever embrace the Arm world, there's no ROI.
 

4389842

Cancelled
Jan 7, 2017
179
267
It's actually different than that, more the way some x86 developers coded,

Care to elaborate?

but yeah, I'd put the blame on microsoft as well. But if Microsoft wasn't the way they are we wouldn't have such a versatile and long lived ecosystem, and for that I'm more than happy with the state of things.

Windows runs on literal millions of PC systems, all with different hardware and across many decades. All this sight unseen. It is a technological marvel.

I would hardly say the inability of the Arm variant to run some obscure software on a Mac qualifies as ill intent on part of MS or anyone else.

For Mac users needing Windows compatibility, that's not Microsoft's fault, it's more the purchasers folly. (myself included)

True

They wont ever embrace the Arm world, there's no ROI.

Says who?
 

TurboCoder2022

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 25, 2022
197
366
Have you tried WINE / CrossOver? WINE (Wine Is Not an Emulator, https://www.winehq.org/) is an open source project that implements the Windows APIs on other platforms like Linux & Mac. CrossOver (https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover) is commercialized WINE with a nice installer & GUI interface. Both websites have databases where you can search for your software to see if it works. Also, you can try out CrossOver for free to see if your software works. WINE is free, of course.

What's happening under the hood is pretty cool, actually. CrossOver is an Intel Mac app, so it's being translated to ARM64 code by Rosetta 2 ahead of runtime; it's faster than most emulators. And because WINE/CrossOver is implementing the Windows APIs without the bloat of running a full Windows OS, it's quite fast. I've run Age of Empires II Definitive Edition with no noticeable lag at high resolution.

I recommend you give it a try. I defenestrated and have never looked back.
Does Wine work on Ventura 13.3.1 (a)? The site shows only 10.8 - 10.14. (help me associate the Mac OS version numbers to the right version listed there).
 

Mr_Brightside_@

macrumors 68040
Sep 23, 2005
3,801
2,174
Toronto
Yeah. Check my post history for the full story.
It’s not immediately obvious what happened. You got the third party cord that burned, didn’t want to use the iMac in that state (understandable), and didn’t want to return the Mac or pay for a repair, then bought an Apple silicon Mac.
the AC inlet on the iMac Pro is modular. Have it replaced, wipe it, then sell it.
 

VivienM

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2022
496
341
Toronto, ON
Me. (and what sells in the marketplace)
PC land is very, very, very paranoid about returns. (Look at what happened to Linux netbooks before MS revived XP for netbooks) And this leads to some interesting design choices, e.g. I was at Worst Buy a few weeks ago and noticed that some pre-built gaming desktops (HP or Asus or Acer?) had DVI ports on the video card. DVI stopped being a serious thing for monitors 10+ years ago. Low-end laptops continued to have optical drives until very recently, but no USB-C. Lenovo/Dell/HP are in no hurry to add something they don't think people care about (e.g. touchscreens, which is what killed Windows 8), but they are terrified of people buying a new system, it not connecting to their existing peripherals, and returning the system.

I can't imagine a world where Lenovo/Dell/HP/etc are comfortable selling ARM Windows machines at retail, especially when I believe drivers for, say, printers are architecture-specific in Windows (and not in macOS, I don't think).

I could see ARM for Windows gaining a small niche as a kind of Chromebook competitor running Windows 11 S or some other differently-branded version of Windows that tries to prevent people from assuming compatibility that won't be there, but even that, I'm not sure Lenovo/Dell/HP would want to gamble on.
 
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