One day someone will answer this question. There's way too much emotion about soldered RAM on Macs that somehow gets a pass on GPUs.
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Do y'all think apple will meet their 2 year AS transition deadline?
- Thread starter mactinkerlover
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Probably because you can replace a faulty dGPU card, or even upgrade to a new one without trashing your whole machine. That's enough of a difference to me to make dGPU RAM upgrades irrelevant to me.
Re: the thread title:
"about two years" - which could mean "from now" (June 2020) or "from the time the first system ships" (Nov 2020) doesn't really sound like a serious deadline to me. I don't think anybody but MacRumors pundits are going to take them to task if they miss it. The bigger problem is that Mac Pro users have now been in limbo for 2 years with no clue as to whether there's going to be an Apple Silicon equivalent of the 2019 Big Box 'o' Slots Mac Pro or if it's going to be something Courageous that demands a workflow change.
What's changed with Apple Silicon is that the laptops are now closer in power to the desktops, so the choice is more about whether or not you need a portable.
Still, that's only true up to the Studio Max - the Studio Ultra gives a lot more power and I/O than you could fit in a MacBook Pro.
The flip side is that, with Apple Silicon, you get a real performance - and probably reliability - advantage by having the RAM directly soldered to the CPU carrier.
Another way the Studio beats the MacBook Pro is that it is potentially more repairable - I did look at the teardown before buying at was reassured that it all came apart fairly easily, all the connectors were on replaceable modules, and even if the SSD isn't user-upgradeable it is modular and could be replaced by an Apple Service Person (and hopefully Apple will roll out their DIY repair program to Macs as promised).
If Macs had stuck with Intel I would have liked a mythical modular xMac - I was quite upset that the Mac Pro started quite so high up the 'serious callers only' scale - and was probably about ready to go back to DIY PCs - Apple Silicon is offering something new and different and although it is more akin to mobile tech than traditional PCs it's bringing a lot of performance advantages with that.
As for the Mac Pro, it really, really isn't a consumer/hobbyist machine, and the sort of user it is aimed at really should know how much RAM they need on day one (and are quite likely to get it on a fixed-term lease, or plan to replace it once they've finished reclaiming the tax) - The benefit of modularity here is more about configuring it for particular tasks on day one, including being able to fit a lot of specialist PCIe cards and mountains of RAM. We still don't know how Apple is going to deliver that with Apple Silicon. I don't need one but it will be interesting to see what they do...
Apple plans to ship the first Mac with Apple silicon by the end of the year and complete the transition in about two years.
Apple announces Mac transition to Apple silicon
Apple today announced it will transition the Mac to its custom silicon to deliver industry-leading performance and powerful new technologies.www.apple.com
"about two years" - which could mean "from now" (June 2020) or "from the time the first system ships" (Nov 2020) doesn't really sound like a serious deadline to me. I don't think anybody but MacRumors pundits are going to take them to task if they miss it. The bigger problem is that Mac Pro users have now been in limbo for 2 years with no clue as to whether there's going to be an Apple Silicon equivalent of the 2019 Big Box 'o' Slots Mac Pro or if it's going to be something Courageous that demands a workflow change.
If you don't need the portability then a Mac Studio with M1 Max is $900 cheaper than a 14" M1 Max MacBook Pro. Sure, you have to buy a screen - but a lot of MacBook users need a large screen or two anyway for desktop use. OK, you can prop up a MacBook on an elevator stand and use it in a sort-of dual monitor setup - but that only makes sense if you're also going to make use of the portability. Plus, the Studio has more ports - including a whole extra TB4 port.
What's changed with Apple Silicon is that the laptops are now closer in power to the desktops, so the choice is more about whether or not you need a portable.
Still, that's only true up to the Studio Max - the Studio Ultra gives a lot more power and I/O than you could fit in a MacBook Pro.
It's good to have that option - but that's more a consumer/hobbyist situation than an issue for pro/expert users - who just buy enough RAM to start with. One of the redeeming features of the Studio is that - unlike some of the cheaper Macs - it comes with a sensible default 32GB of RAM: some people need more, but if you don't know why you need more your probably don't need it.
The flip side is that, with Apple Silicon, you get a real performance - and probably reliability - advantage by having the RAM directly soldered to the CPU carrier.
Another way the Studio beats the MacBook Pro is that it is potentially more repairable - I did look at the teardown before buying at was reassured that it all came apart fairly easily, all the connectors were on replaceable modules, and even if the SSD isn't user-upgradeable it is modular and could be replaced by an Apple Service Person (and hopefully Apple will roll out their DIY repair program to Macs as promised).
If Macs had stuck with Intel I would have liked a mythical modular xMac - I was quite upset that the Mac Pro started quite so high up the 'serious callers only' scale - and was probably about ready to go back to DIY PCs - Apple Silicon is offering something new and different and although it is more akin to mobile tech than traditional PCs it's bringing a lot of performance advantages with that.
As for the Mac Pro, it really, really isn't a consumer/hobbyist machine, and the sort of user it is aimed at really should know how much RAM they need on day one (and are quite likely to get it on a fixed-term lease, or plan to replace it once they've finished reclaiming the tax) - The benefit of modularity here is more about configuring it for particular tasks on day one, including being able to fit a lot of specialist PCIe cards and mountains of RAM. We still don't know how Apple is going to deliver that with Apple Silicon. I don't need one but it will be interesting to see what they do...
Depending on how you define it, they've already passed the 2 year mark from the announcement at WWDC 2020, but I don't really think it matters either way. In effect the whole lineup is now AS, with the Mac Studio clipping into the low end of Mac Pro use cases anyway. No new Intel machines will be launched, and they're being depreciated at a lighting rate for Apple... Even though there's still a couple of Intel Macs on sale, pretty much every device class that existed in the Mac lineup before 2020 now has an M series counterpart (or alternative vis the Mac Studio and display vs 27" iMac).
They won’t support PCI-e GPU’s. They do already support RAM off the chip in the Mac Studio, though, right? So that could be a given. But consider, Apple has a pretty good idea how many of their Mac Pro’s are currently using over a terabyte of RAM… if that ends up being, like, 1,500 people, they could make the new Mac Pro without that capability. Why include it if it’s not being/going to be used by users?
On the one hand, I consider it “missed” because they do still sell Intel systems in their stores. On the other hand, the ONLY systems not replaced yet likely see less than 100,000 in unit sales a year combined… so, for practical purposes and for most users, it’s “done”.
Yep, especially considering the lineup before the 2019 MP arrived, every base is now covered. The Mac Studio covers the iMac Pro market as well as the 27" iMac and high end Mac Minis, and the iMac Pro was the most powerful Mac Apple sold until the end of 2019!
They'd never do it, but it'd be cool to see a Mac Pro with dual architecture: Apple Silicon and Intel. It'd work by having expandable storage and memory slots (accessible by both Mx and Intel chips), option for discrete GPU, and able to boot in either Intel or Mx mode.
More likely, they'll ship it with an M3 Max, Ultra, or Extreme chip, which will support even more displays, will allow for user upgradeable storage, RAM, and graphics, and be similar to the current form factor (since that's pretty new).
Don't think it'll be announced until 2023 though. I bet they're having issues figuring out best ways to get optimal performance with M3 chips, the biggest feature of which will be the ability to have external storage/RAM/graphics support.
What's the point of spending close to 2 grand on an RTX3090 with non-upgradable RAM. If it breaks you have to trash the whole thing. That thing belongs in a phone.
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The Mac Studio likely also covers 90% or more of the Mac Pro market. There’s still audio cards and some networking cards that would go in a future MacPro’s slots, but it’s not like those with current Mac Pro’s that meet their requirements are ready to upgrade.
I think they mostly covered the Mac Pro already. Really wish they'd hurry up with the 27" iMac replacement, but maybe it's not coming. It may have gotten to be too good of a computer for a non "pro" model. Sadly, our 2014 iMac 5K finally bit the dust so we ended up with the 2020 Intel iMac 27" because the smaller screen was too much of a step backwards and the Mac Studio and Studio Display weren't out yet.
RAM has always been off the chip. And the Ultra is for all practical purposes one giant chip.
RAM for other systems have been on the SoC and the CPU and GPU share it, which is why it’s fast. RAM for the Mac Studio is slotted, i.e. NOT on the SoC. The CPU and GPU still share it, though
Mac Studio Teardown Indicates That SSD Storage May Be Upgradeable
The Mac Studio's SSD storage is not soldered in place and could be upgradeable, according to a teardown performed by YouTube channel Max Tech. ...
www.macrumors.com
That doesn’t count! I have the privilege to spend 4 grand on a 4090 when it comes out!
Yes, Apple officially marked the beginning of the transition (spoken in keynote, at the Nov 2020 Event). I bet we will see a M2 Pro/Max refresh, along side the Mac Pro and a M2 “Extreme” or maybe just the Mac Pro, but either way technically the transition will then be completed.
That is rich coming from someone who clearly has no idea about the workstation market.
RAM for other systems have been on the SoC and the CPU and GPU share it, which is why it’s fast. RAM for the Mac Studio is slotted, i.e. NOT on the SoC. The CPU and GPU still share it, though
Mac Studio Teardown Indicates That SSD Storage May Be Upgradeable
The Mac Studio's SSD storage is not soldered in place and could be upgradeable, according to a teardown performed by YouTube channel Max Tech. ...
That’s the SSD that’s slotted, not RAM. In all Apple Silicon Systems the RAM is located on package. Studio in particular uses a 1024 bit RAM interface, it’s not something you can easily make modular.
That is rich coming from someone who clearly has no idea about high performance computing what companies are using.
You and Leman keep digging your own holes.
Anyway, this is my last post here as I got better things to do then teaching you guys how high performance computing is done.
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You are only one talking about “high performance computing” (whatever you think it is). We are talking about personal workstations.
And dude, lol. You are aware that you are talking to someone who uses a TOP500 (TOP25, really) supercomputer for daily work?
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Four grand on an GPU that you can't replace or upgrade the RAM on if it fails or you decide you want more later???? That's as bad as Apple Silicon.
