Do you feel boxed-in by Apple?

[Phrasikleia]

For many years I felt as though I had wisely gone with the company that thinks outside the box, but increasingly, I'm beginning to feel as though that company now has me trapped inside of one.

With options and extras dropping away from Apple hardware, the message has become "take it or leave it." Of course leaving it is easier said than done when you're sitting on a big software investment.

Does anyone else feel a bit trapped?

 

[soberbrain]

Boxed in, like in a luxury resort.

I'm enjoying the Mac Experience and I am able to do everything I want. I can understand someone having needs that would be beyond what Apple products provide. It's really up to the user.

 

[rhett7660]

Boxed in, like in a luxury resort.

I'm enjoying the Mac Experience and I am able to do everything I want. I can understand someone having needs that would be beyond what Apple products use to provide. It's really up to the user.

I know there has been a lot of flack over the dropping of firewire on the lower end Macbooks, and rightfully so.

For some reason, Apple seems to be all about the digital media player and phones. That is just my observation, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Phrasikleia]

Boxed in, like in a luxury resort.

I'm enjoying the Mac Experience and I am able to do everything I want. I can understand someone having needs that would be beyond what Apple products provide. It's really up to the user.

What exactly is "really up to the user" when the user has no options?

 

[soberbrain]

What exactly is "really up to the user" when the user has no options?

I mean the impact of a change or decrease in options and extras, may or may not affect a users needs.

If you are a user that is now missing necessary features in the current products, then it's unfortunate.

With my needs, I still feel I have a choice.

 

[cube]

I would have long switched to Solaris or Linux if it were not for the lack of non-enterprise commercial applications.

PC == garbage software
Mac == stupid and/or expensive hardware

 

[PlaceofDis]

you've always been boxed in. its just now that you feel that something is lacking. Apple has always been a closed platform with limited options and those options haven't always worked for people. They do what they do for a reason though and while it might not always be the best for everyone they're a company looking to make the best profits that they can.

 

[Phrasikleia]

you've always been boxed in. its just now that you feel that something is lacking. Apple has always been a closed platform with limited options and those options haven't always worked for people. They do what they do for a reason though and while it might not always be the best for everyone they're a company looking to make the best profits that they can.

Yeah, you're right. I guess I'm just finally feeling the pinch. It seems as if the options in the PC world are proliferating at the same time that Mac options are becoming downright anemic. They're going in opposite directions.

 

[twoodcc]

i don't know if "boxed-in" is the right terms, but i understand what you are trying to say. i don't regret moving to apple, even though sometimes i have that itch about it. i mean, there are times when apple makes certain moves, and i think "what are they thinking?", "how can they do that and still sell computers?".

but as the saying goes, "the grass is always greener..."

no product is perfect, whether it's Leopard, Vista, Linux, the new macbooks, or whatever. you just have to get something that best suits your needs and wants, and make do with what you can.

heck, maybe apple knows what they are doing with dropping firewire and not adopting blu-ray yet. only time will tell

 

[bartelby]

Boxed in?

No. Back in the days of ADB, Apple specific video connections not much in the choice of software etc then maybe.

But now with generic connections and BootCamp you can hardly say you're boxed in...

 

[synth3tik]

Recently my views on hackintosh computers has really changed. If you were to ask me about a hackintosh even a few months ago I would have given an ear full. Now I find myself looking into it. Actually looking at building one up.

The only thing I need Apple for is Pro Audio. For the rest I can be more then happy with Linux now. Ahh a dual boot hackintosh -drool

 

[localoid]

... They do what they do for a reason though and while it might not always be the best for everyone they're a company looking to make the best profits that they can.

And Coca Cola once replaced the old Coke with the new Coke "for a reason".

 

[Markleshark]

Yeah, I feel a lot less 'boxed in' than when we had PPC.

Anyway, if you can use the term boxed in in this context then fair enough. Like saying your boxed in in a 5 star all inclusive resort.

 

[RedTomato]

Yes, but only because of lack of FW.

As it is, the intel macs are far more open than the PPC macs.

But if i was in a slightly different situation, I would also point out the lack of a mac midi-tower or a cheap OSX netbook.

As it is, I can seriously see myself buying a MSI Wind or similar in the next few years and putting OSX on it. Especially once they start coming with firewire, which given the rate netbooks are advancing isn't too unlikely.

(Some already have Expresscard slots which mean FW is only about $30 away on them)

 

[Phrasikleia]

Anyway, if you can use the term boxed in in this context then fair enough. Like saying your boxed in in a 5 star all inclusive resort.

Well, maybe a resort with gaudy furniture, windows that don't keep the glaring sun out of your room, and a parking garage that you can't use unless you buy proprietary wheels that work with the special pavement.

 

[hulugu]

For many years I felt as though I had wisely gone with the company that thinks outside the box, but increasingly, I'm beginning to feel as though that company now has me trapped inside of one.

With options and extras dropping away from Apple hardware, the message has become "take it or leave it." Of course leaving it is easier said than done when you're sitting on a big software investment.

Does anyone else feel a bit trapped?

Well, no.

First, my current computer's abilities have not changed. I can still use everything, including firewire, that it came with. And, since Apple will continue to write software for this machine into the foreseeable future, I really don't have a problem.

If I was about to buy a MacBook and I needed firewire, then I would have to make some choices, but ultimately, I always have to make choices in any kind of consumer good I buy.

I want a MacBook Pro that weighs 12 ounces, with a Blu-ray drive, 3G cell modem and be bulletproof, waterproof, and costs $200. But, I'm not going to get that anytime soon.

I understand that firewire is an issue for new MacBook users, and it sucks that Apple has decided to remove such a useful port, however, I have a dozen or so people who have MacBooks and not only don't use the FW port, they don't even know what it is. So, in reality, I'm not sure it's really going to affect that many people aside from the rather vocal minority here.

 

[Phrasikleia]

Well, no.

First, my current computer's abilities have not changed. I can still use everything, including firewire, that it came with. And, since Apple will continue to write software for this machine into the foreseeable future, I really don't have a problem.

If you're not in the market for a new computer, then perhaps you should revisit this question when you are. My concern regards present and future offerings from Apple, since I find myself in the position (for the first time ever) of having no desirable options.

If I was about to buy a MacBook and I needed firewire, then I would have to make some choices, but ultimately, I always have to make choices in any kind of consumer good I buy.

It's tough to make choices when you don't have any options.

I want a MacBook Pro that weighs 12 ounces, with a Blu-ray drive, 3G cell modem and be bulletproof, waterproof, and costs $200. But, I'm not going to get that anytime soon.

I would only expect such a machine if there were comparable PC offerings. Hyperbole like this doesn't help.

 

[hulugu]

If you're not in the market for a new computer, then perhaps you should revisit this question when you are. My concern regards present and future offerings from Apple, since I find myself in the position (for the first time ever) of having no desirable options.

It's tough to make choices when you don't have any options.

Well, you do have options, just not the ones you'd like.

I would only expect such a machine if there were comparable PC offerings. Hyperbole like this doesn't help.

Hyperbole makes the point, at some moment we have to make choices about our purchases. Apple doesn't make computers in anything but white, black, or silver so am I boxed in by not being able to get a green Mac? What about options that do exist, like Blu-Ray? Is Apple boxing me in because they don't currently offer a Blu-Ray drive?

There are lots of things I'd like, including a 3G cell-modem (I don't want a dongle) in my laptop and those just haven't happened yet. Am I boxed in?

To a point, the vertical integration of Apple's model means that there will be some limitations, there will be some choices and this has been true since the Mac Plus. Remember what people said about the loss of ADB ports when the iMac came out? Remember SCSI? Or Appletalk?
When I got my iMac, I had to buy a bridge device to make my Appletalk HP printer work with Ethernet. Was I boxed in then? No, I made a choice when I bought the iMac that its advantages outweighed the inconveniences.

I expect people who want a new MacBook to have to make the same choices. It's annoying definitely, and if it were me, I would still include the port or a dongle that solves the problem (similar to the external modem for the iMacs last year), but I don't think this is Apple suddenly "boxing" people in.

Now, if we wanted to talk about the iPhone NDA when it was still in effect, then that's a different conversation. But, even that situation has changed.

 

[Phrasikleia]

I would argue that yes, if there is a feature you want that is readily available only to PC users, then you are boxed in; you can't step out of the box to have that feature. A PC user, however, can shop around and has quite a lot of options. If HP doesn't have what they want, they'll just go to Sony. If Apple doesn't have what I want, I have nowhere else to go (all of my software is for Mac, and I have some 25,000 photos organized in Aperture). That's what makes me feel boxed in.

 

[hulugu]

I would argue that yes, if there is a feature you want that is readily available only to PC users, then you are boxed in; you can't step out of the box to have that feature. A PC user, however, can shop around and has quite a lot of options. If HP doesn't have what they want, they'll just go to Sony. If Apple doesn't have what I want, I have nowhere else to go (all of my software is for Mac, and I have some 25,000 photos organized in Aperture). That's what makes me feel boxed in.

If Apple had suddenly disappeared, you'd have to work hard to move to a new machine, and suddenly some software would be worthless and you'd have to spend money trying to find new solutions or make due with old ones. I have sympathy for what you're saying and that is a problem with Apple's vertical model. PC users can move from vendor to vendor, however, if Windows isn't any good (and they're not agile enough for Linux) they're essentially in the same boat. That's the problem with the fiddler-crab duopoly we currently enjoy.

The question is really, does you current technology work well enough for you to wait for a better solution from Apple or someone else? Is Firewire really that important? Is a MacBook Pro really out of reach?

If I were about to buy a new computer and I *needed* Firewire, I might wait a bit longer to buy the MacBook Pro, or I would decide if the $400 'firewire premium' was worth the gear I had. I have a 1TB FW drive, so if I were about to buy a MacBook (or a Mac Mini, which will also loose FW if it's ever updated), I'd have to decide between keeping that drive or going to the MBP. Of course, since a new Western Digital 1TB is ~250, I might decide to sell the drive and move on. But, I still made a choice, even if I was unhappy with either option.

So, I don't feel boxed in, but I understand why you do.

 

[Purple Pelican]

Personally, (I've been using macs since my old SE/30), I don't think I feel the "boxed-in" feeling that you describe. Here's why.

I've been using Apple laptops since the Bronze Keyboard PB, and I know how it feels to lose features. But eventually, you learn to move on as old technologies are replace with newer ones. First, SCSI died out and was replaced by Firewire; but I learned how to deal with it. Second, Apple's laptops have lost full-size display connectors, but I'm ok with carrying around an adapter. Third, Apple laptops lost the hot-swappable drive and battery bays in the G3, which back then was a feature I really liked. Fourth, Apple laptops have lost FireWire.

The concern about FireWire is legitimate, though. Many consumers, like you (and me to an extent) still use FireWire. But as other members have said, you can work around a lack of FireWire. And considering that Apple seems like they might be moving away from FireWire, you eventually might be forced to do so.

While I can see why you might feel boxed-in by losses in features, I've personally accepted that the replacement of features by newer ones are a natural course of new technology.

 

[cube]

But as other members have said, you can work around a lack of FireWire.

By getting rid of all your FireWire gear, and buying all new kit, avoiding excelent products that require it. Nice workaround

 

[yoyo5280]

For me I don't think its a big deal.

There is plenty of software for what I like to do.

And I am not much of a hardware-modder/gamer.

 

[Purple Pelican]

By getting rid of all your FireWire gear, and buying all new kit, avoiding excelent products that require it. Nice workaround

I'm not talking about an immediate workaround. I mean eventually. When SCSI support was dropped by Apple, I had a bunch of expensive HDs, etc that were unusable as well. And I do have videocameras, drives, and some other stuff that use FW that didn't come cheap. I understand the frustration. But it does seem that eventually USB 3.0, and maybe even standards like ESATA, may/will come to replace FireWire. The majority of new PCs don't support FireWire. And if you're using pro AV equipment that's going to cost you thousands to replace, then you can shell out for a iMac/Mac Pro/PowerBook, even a Mac Mini that supports FW.

Look, I don't like the loss of FW either. However, FW seems to be used less and less for certain applications, and it may eventually become obsolete. It's just something that has to be dealt with.

 

[cube]

I'm not talking about an immediate workaround. I mean eventually. When SCSI support was dropped by Apple, I had a bunch of expensive HDs, etc that were unusable as well. And I do have videocameras, drives, and some other stuff that use FW that didn't come cheap. I understand the frustration. But it does seem that eventually USB 3.0, and maybe even standards like ESATA, may/will come to replace FireWire. The majority of new PCs don't support FireWire. And if you're using pro AV equipment that's going to cost you thousands to replace, then you can shell out for a iMac/Mac Pro/PowerBook, even a Mac Mini that supports FW.

Look, I don't like the loss of FW either. However, FW seems to be used less and less for certain applications, and it may eventually become obsolete. It's just something that has to be dealt with.

There are millions of consumers with perfectly good miniDV cameras. FireWire 400 is by no means dead.