Do you think ARM iMacs will be able to be used as displays?

[EntropyQ3]

I mean, technically it may be easier for them to bring the functionality back as they are moving to separate controllers for functional tasks. It was removed as they needed custom timing controllers for the display to work effectively with intel and discrete graphics. Having more vertical ownership in this department may allow for additional conversion to be built in to work with external inputs.

However, whether or not they will is completely different question; it’s not worth their time/effort to consider requirements for a device that would distract from the experience.

And this is the issue really, isn’t it?
Do they provide utility to their customers or are they selling an abstract concept of how their computers should be used so hard that it requires nerfing capabilities so that alternative usage isn’t even possible?

The reason I have some hope here is that they actually allow iPads to be hooked up as secondary screens. It just makes a lot of sense that if you have a great screen right there, you can actually take advantage of it. Generally speaking, Macs are for folks that require or want something that iPads do not provide. If Apple wants to be in that product segment at all, they should make the best product for the customer they can. Sell it at a healthy mark up, that’s fine. But don’t artificially hamstring it. One of the most significant aspects of computers, particularly stationary ones, is connectivity. Artificially crippling that actually hurts the brand, and hurts the integrity of the product. Being able to hook up devices to the screen they supply with the iMac simply makes sense.

And I have a feeling that the next big screen they source for the iMac will be so nice that you will want to take maximum advantage of it.

 

[subjonas]

apple products don't have serial ports anymore. Apple Desktop ports anymore. No Firewire. No optical drives. No Macs come standard with a HDD anymore.

Apple regularly deems technologies as pass their most useful lifetimes even after using them for years.

One of the primary drivers of needing a monitor with two inputs was need multiple computer running more than one operating systems. The vast majority of that has been subsumed by Virtual Machines. A single Mac system with 32-64GB of memory can flip between multiple OS instances on the same screen without hitting any magical "switch monitor input" key combination. Most times a user can even easily copy and paste between the OS instances (which can't do with switch input modes).

Even without virtual machines. 1GbE (or better) LAN ethernet connection to another system with VNC/"remote desktop"/etc works just fine for a large fraction of workloads. Even more some people hare interacting with distant cloud instances of some OS instance running an app or a game on a remote machine.

VM and network host connections is a primary reason Apple is on track to dump raw booting other OS instances on future Macs. ( raw 'Boot Camp" going into retirement. ). The impacts won't only be there though.

Times change and features change along with them. Especially with Apple. They aren't slavishly hooked to any port. Forward looking use cases, yes. Primarily only looking in the rear view mirror as to what to do on next iteration. Probably not. What you are cheerleading here for is an old feature , not a new one. Mixing it up with "no future features" is partially misdirection.


Apple has dropped target display mode rather throughly since getting the TBv3 Macs out. They almost certainly have gotten some grumbling feedback about that several years ago and Intel iMacs still haven't added it back.






If you are out there betting large sums that optical disks are coming back the Mac in future iterations you are extremely likely going to loose lots of money. Some features Apple has basically outlined that they are the "past". There is no clear commandment brought down from the mountain on target display mode.

The primary support page is 'dead ended' ( archive only mode).

Use your iMac as a display with target display mode - Apple Support (BN)

Target display mode is a feature available with certain older Mac models.

support.apple.com

That isn't a good bet that it is a forward looking technology.

Sure, old inferior technology gets replaced with new superior technology. But the key to your particular comparisons is that those technologies were actually replaced with better things, not merely dropped. And further, those older technologies couldn't coexist with the newer technology without compromise. In this case, nothing has come to replace it, and there would be no port or drive real estate being taken up.

Virtual machines and Remote Desktop didn’t come to replace target display mode. Those existed long before target display mode ever existed. Why would Apple introduce this feature then if those other technologies were sufficient? Because of their limitations, those handle only some overlapping use cases. They especially don’t cover what I think would be two major use cases off the top of my head. The first is general, which is that some people may need to use two physical computers at one desk for whatever reason (perhaps one is a MacBook that they occasionally want to use at the desk using the iMac display). The other is that they no longer can or need to use their iMac but want to continue using its nice, big display for their next computer that may not have a large built-in monitor.

So there must have been a different reason why Apple removed TDM, other than it was replaced. As to the exact reason, it seems we’re all ultimately making guesses here.

I wouldn’t say I’m cheerleading. I don’t have a need for this feature myself, but I see why people want it, and I’m just pointing out some logical fallacies I see people making in their arguments against it, and maybe more so in their complaints against anyone making complaints about not having it.

In the context of this thread, I don’t know what other inference to draw from ChromeCloud’s argument “if it isnt sold as (blank), don’t expect (blank)” other than “one shouldn’t make arguments for any additional features in future iterations in any product”. Perhaps, the argument/rule was missing some qualifier. Perhaps they meant you shouldn’t expect a major change in functionality. Or maybe they even meant you shouldn’t expect a removed feature to return (though that’s putting a lot of words in their mouth). And I presume they say ”shouldn’t” because it won’t happen? But then the iPad was never meant to be a second monitor for a Mac but it is now and plenty of people clamorred for that, and second, there have been times that removed features returned (scissor keyboards, physical escape key, various software features, etc). So at best, all one can really argue is that it probably won’t happen.

And I don’t believe “old” and “new” should be used as arguments for what is better or worse technology. What is better is better. What is worse is worse. Chronology is merely a correlation; but it is far from a cause (eg. again, butterfly keyboards).

Not sure why tdm was dropped, but if at the time it had to do with thunderbolt/DisplayPort needing to catch up to 5k displays, I can imagine even though the tech caught up, Apple would lag in retooling iMac display production for the somewhat niche feature.

Nobody ever said it wouldn't be useful to some users. I was specifically addressing the way the OP expected such a feature to be included in the product. He says (talking as if you are purchasing an external monitor when you purchase an iMac): "The idea that you can’t hook up an XBOX or PS5 to a computer monitor you purchased has always been beyond absurd."

Well, there's nothing absurd about that. Since an iMac is sold as a computer, the only thing that would be absurd about it would be if it couldn't operate as a computer. It would be absurd for an iMac not to be able to run any program.

The fact that it cannot be used as an external monitor is not absurd. It's just a product design choice.

If you like car analogies, it would be as if a certain car didn't have the ability to tow a trailer.

If the OP was interested in such a car, he would say something like this: "The idea that you can't tow a trailer with a powerful engine you purchased has always been beyond absurd".

The engine in the car could be used to tow a trailer just as well as the monitor in the iMac could be used as an external monitor.

Still, there is nothing absurd about a car that cannot tow a trailer, just as there is nothing absurd about an iMac that cannot be used as an external monitor.

I just took “absurd” as hyperbole to make a point, but I’d agree it’s a strong word. People have varying degrees of intensity, but I think most would agree tdm is a feature that would be of at least some value in the iMac. As far as whether someone should “expect” it, I don’t think anyone can expect anything that isn’t promised or doesn’t operate like clockwork. I take these types of threads as people just saying how much they want something or believes in the value of it.

 

[psingh01]

Nope. Apple won’t do it. It’s the type of thing that can add value to some users but Apple won’t be able to profit off of it much. They would rather the few that use such a thing just buy another device (preferably one of theirs).

It’s like adding or enabling an am/fm radio chip with the iPhone. That could be incredibly useful, but they’d rather you pay for a data plan and stream via an app that they can monetize.

To be fair though, I have an Alienware laptop that has hdmi input. It seems it wasn’t heavily desired by customers and they too dropped the feature in later versions. I wish I had such a feature on my 16” MBP.

 

[Yebubbleman]

This instantly solves the gaming/boot camp problem that the move to ARM created. You can buy a game console and/or Intel NUC and you’ve got the best of all worlds.

The idea that you can’t hook up an XBOX or PS5 to a computer monitor you purchased has always been beyond absurd. The iMac would be a much better value if you were able to use the monitor... as a monitor.

There were limitations on earlier Retina iMacs that wouldn't allow this. I'm not sure that there's a need for these limitations to exist on current era iMac Pros, 21.5" iMacs, or 27" iMacs and I see no reason for Apple to omit it going forward unless they don't feel there's much demand for it. But I'd like for this to be re-implemented in the new models. It'd give me an incentive to actually buy an Apple Silicon iMac (which I currently am completely lacking in).