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does anyone ask Apple's management about the Mac Pro?
- Thread starter cohen777
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That's what people kept saying over the course of 3 years now. Mac Pro update cycles were usually 300-600 days. It's already 1000 days and I highly doubt the delay is due to improvements to the trashcan. Custom GPU fixtures was probably the most idiotic thing they could've done now that they're st.
Apart from the atrocious manufacturing process failures and sub-par sales of the nMP, I believe they're realizing that the nMP is no longer a product that requires any sort of commitment and will probably be axed in favor of a more consumer-friendly device such as a the iMac.
Tim Cook was quoted a few months ago about the manufacturing issues they were having domestically blaming it on the unfit manufacturing skill/infrastructure in the US compared to Asia. I feel like they'll kill the Mac Pro and its domestic manufacturing and quietly "move" production back to Asia with an existing product (iMac).
Well...
"You will see us do more in the pro area," Cook said. "The pro area is very important to us. The creative area is very important to us in particular."
(about the iPad as a mac replacement) Expect us to do more and more where people will view it as a laptop replacement, but not a Mac replacement - the Mac does so much more," he said. "To merge these worlds, you would lose the simplicity of one, and the power of the other."
Tim Cook.
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/02/28/apple-ceo-tim-cook-pro-creative-area-important/
...I'll take that as very encouraging news!
I'll take that with a grain of salt.
This is the second time Cook is assuring customers that they're committed without showing any tangible proof.
What is a "pro" anyway? Are software developers not pros? Are accountants not pros? Are lawyers not pros? It's not only graphical artists, video editors, and simulation engineers that are pros.
This is why I never really liked the "pro" moniker. For an actuary, the current 12" Macbook can be perfect in that it runs excel perfectly and doesn't stutter even when the spreadsheet has 10,000 rows and columns out to ZZZ.
That said, Apple is not a serious computer company unless they sell a powerful desktop that requires no compromises for those pros that need that. The current nMP, even when the specs were up to date, required way too many compromises.
This is why I never really liked the "pro" moniker. For an actuary, the current 12" Macbook can be perfect in that it runs excel perfectly and doesn't stutter even when the spreadsheet has 10,000 rows and columns out to ZZZ.
That said, Apple is not a serious computer company unless they sell a powerful desktop that requires no compromises for those pros that need that. The current nMP, even when the specs were up to date, required way too many compromises.
That's why he said "creative area" specifically. I'm not sure an accountant needs 24 cores to do his work... Does that mean he's "less" pro than the 3D guys? Of course not!
The saddest thing is, that a nominal upgrade to the oMP wouldn't have cost Apple a fortune to deliver, yet would have sold well, especially with all the pent up demand for Apple workstations. I could have green-lighted dozens of them with just my clients alone.
Instead, I got confused calls about the nMP and its capabilities and prices. I ended up recommending a lot of oMP refurbs. Now those are being EOL'd, and nobody is even considering Apple for anything but a phone.
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We're still gonna need more salt!
Yeah whoa there...Utterly disagree - I also do 3d graphics and I can do my job. I do high end 3d Commercials and TV work (and the odd film) using Maya, Houdini and Cinema 4d amongst other things.
Pretty much the ONLY thing that clunks is Very very Large particle systems.
Of course we
You are comparing chalk and cheese. Per core speed is not up that much.
at launch the:
22 core E5 2699 v4 = $4115 = Top of range.
mac 12 core E5 2697 v2 = $2614 = Mid range
There were even higher end Xeon when the mac pro was launched - 16 cores+ The Mac pro was always hitting a price point ( still didn't stop people moaning about it - but they don't know the cost of workstations - I bought a $14,000 32 Core BOXX machine and returned it within 2 weeks because it kept powering down. Then bought mac pro. And it's never failed me since.
As said I also have a Pretty high end PC - and currently being forced to fix some 3d Max work ( Now that is a awful mess of a program now ) I also have 5000 Dual core CPUs at my finger tips called a render farm
I do care about the OS when windows has awful memory management still crashes constantly or screws up when a dodgy driver installed.
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Hmm... so you know the sales of the mac pro? I see them in the countless studios I work with in London, NY and LA. The studio I was in last week has at least 60 of them. Of course it's niche - so are Boxx.
Again they won't kill the Mac Pro. It will probably have an internal redesign.
Manufacturing process failures? You got a spy in the factory? OOOh do tell. Rolls eyes.
Way to misquote there without actually finding the quote...
The quote was ( and I too am not going to post it ) based on the fact the the USA don't have enough vocational skilled workers to make HIGH volume electronics like the iPad... the Mac Pro is very much an automated production line with some highly skilled engineers.
The other thing he stated is that there are whole cities geared up to make tooling - and in the USA you could fit them in a room.
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You do realize that studios could have perfectly purchased those machines when the MP was refreshed back in 2013/14...
And as far as I know, there are some high profile studios such as Buck among many others who have completely transitioned to a Windows PC workflow because they too are tired of Apple's ********. Not to mention that companies such as Uber and Airbnb have also refrained from buying any new Apple hardware unless absolutely necessary (if they do buy Apple hardware, it would be newer hardware such as MBPs. nMPs require a special request and only a handful of people use them)... and this is from a first hand experience freelancing for them.
Manufacturing process failures takes into account logistical headaches and tooling mishaps when trying to build new components and/or upgrades to the existing design.
That uhhhh... doesn't sound right. I get Mac Pros being special request, but how are Uber and Airbnb doing iOS development without buying Macs?
For their whole business having a Mac is "absolutely necessary." Even for Android development the Mac is the first tier platform, just ahead of Linux, with Windows having the least support.
Development is usually done with MBPs. Mac Pros are fairly non-existent and are quite rare in those types of companies. Most people working there prefer laptops anyway
Edit: I realized my wording was incorrect. Instead of "Apple hardware", it should've said "Mac Pros"
Second of all you stated that the increase in cpu performance was "very week, about 20%" and the only notable increase was in gpu arena. I just corrected your false statements. Actually there is a almost 300% increase in computing power over Xeon line(the E5 2699 v4 does a whooping 3400 points in Cinebench, not 2800 - that was engineering sample). I don't care what is the Apple excuse or the ones that you present here like you are they spoke person or something, the best you can do on they current top end machine is a 12 core cpu, witch does 1160 points in Cinebench. So a 3 times slower performance than the newest Xeon. I don't care what type of work you do, we are talking about Apple 'pro' machine, witch costs over 10000 EUR in Europe and it has a 3 years old tech that is 3 times slower than competition. So again, put your facts together.
p.s. As for the actual 3d work I am in a need to correct you again. If you do any type of 3d, that also involves look dev(you know, that little thing called texturing and shading your 3d graphics). This requires best computing parts available so i can have real time respond to my shading changes. Now, if all you do is motion graphics and some texts flying around the screen, than you might want to burn 10k on an outdated machine. And by the way i use Quadro, same as 95% of VFX houses i work with. I also done some movies VFX for Hollywood and no, i can't do my job on a mac. My main workflow requires importing huge CAD machines, rendering photo real VR out of them and also how-to-videos. That involves fluids(both liquid and smoke) and particles. And yes, i do work with Houdini for my effects. I know you love Apple OS, but this does not mean that you can fly around false statements about competition performance. There are some other pro's around here to correct you.
The full topic in here is not how good are you with your mac pro. It's just that they are outdated and out of the pro market.
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By that metric you don’t like the consumer tag either?
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There are plenty of people that have bought Mac Pro and after repeated GPU problem returned/sold them for higher performing and cheaper PCs, what’s your point?
I sent a rather long printed letter to Tim Cook, explaining why we need expandable Mac Pros, and support for things like AppleScript or technologies that allow real creative solutions to business needs. I certainly do not expect any reply back. I thought a physical letter might make more impact than email.
Ok, but I’m sure you know that they have what they consider a Pro line of products. The rest are either above or below that level. What would you suggest they are?
I suggest they are all laptops/computers. There is nothing inherently pro about the Macbook Pro, and there is nothing inherently non-pro about the 12" Retina Macbook. A pro can use the Macbook, just as well as an amatuer or a consumer can use the Macbook Pro.
Plenty of non-Pros want to buy a new high-end Mac desktop with upgradeable components.
Ok, we’re going to go around in circles. I’ll leave you with this. We have a GSB and a PSB, one of these drills has the pro moniker, the other doesn’t. A pro can use the green one but it is most certainly not a pro tool.
A drill is a single-purpose tool. The only "pro" that would use a drill is a carpenter or some kind of builder. A computer is a multi-purpose tool that is used by anyone.
What is your point? Are you saying an accountant/lawyer/journalist/novelist/coder is not a professional? That a regular Macbook is an inadequate tool for a professional that does nothing graphics intensive?
My point is the pro moniker is needlessly limiting. It implies that pro machines are never for non-pros, which is untrue; and it implies that non-pro machines are inadequate for all pros, which is also untrue.
What would be the harm in just listing Apple products by something that any buyer, whether pro or not, would take into account, such as their respective sizes? This pro nonsense adds nothing to the conversation.
Macbook 12
Macbook 13
Macbook 15
iMac 21
iMac 27
Mac Mini
Mac Tower
iPhone 4
iPhone 4.7
iPhone 5.5
iPad 7.9
iPad 9.7
iPad 12.9
It matters not how many purposes a tool is made for. A pro tool is can be multifunction or specialised and it can be for any industry and any purpose.
What it should also be is one that can be used hard for a prolonged period and often from premium materials.
Apple have marketed this device as pro and regularly refer to creative professionals, they have set the stage for it. People here are getting butt hurt that others don’t consider their profession as pro. Who cares?
It doesn't change the qualities of the equipment they use. Next doors 5 year old using a JCB to dig holes for his sand castle doesn't stop it being a pro piece of machinery.
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