I think it’ll be more widely complained about if OLED is the only new choice as more people will be using them. PWM headaches don’t just suddenly disappear because there is only screen option lol. Not sure what you are getting at?
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iPhone X Does anyone prefer a great LCD screen over OLED?
- Thread starter Hieveryone
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Yeah, my XS Max has a slight pink tint on the right and left edges if I look at the screen at about a 30° angle. I can see it more in less lit environments, but if I look at the screen head-on it looks damn near perfect. But it’s still there and still annoying. I hate the OLED screen lottery and quite frankly don’t have the time or energy to play it anymore. I went through 3 iPhone X because they all had horrible red/pink tint even looking at it head-on, so I went back to my 8 which had a perfect LCD screen. Maybe one day Apple and/or Samsung will tighten the tolerances, but for now it’s just very hit or miss.
He's implying that people really aren't getting PWM headaches and are using that excuse to justify purchasing a lower cost LCD phone because God forbid should someone have a crappier phone than an online stranger. It's ridiculous of course.
Ah well that’s rather pathetic then, especially as it’s a fact people are affected by it. He obviously thinks all those posters who have returned their iPhones have done so just for a laugh then.
No, it won’t be forgotten. But let’s keep in mind, a small fraction of users that use smart phones that have an OLED panel, likely are the minority when it comes to PWM. I think it’s a very real issue, even for those who try to dismiss it, but the majority of Smart phone owners, they don’t struggle with PWM, and the reason we hear about it more on sites like this, is because you have those who congregate in here, because they don’t know who else to discuss this with, because it is not common to encounter those with PWM. But for now, there still a plethora of LCD smart phones available, and will be for years to come that will still see iOS support.
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I had a manager once who denied I have a back problem and that it's all in my head (even though I told her it's proven on an MRI).
Point being the same, people will deny facts about PWM. Most of us here know it's real, and the screen flicker is proven under slow motion camera visually.
Completely agree!
Got to feel for those who struggle with PWM..
I don't think it'll be possible, but I really wish the 12.9" iPad were an OLED screen. I love the rich, pure blacks on my iPhone Xs Max.
I have no choice but to prefer it, because the OLED on the XS Max gave me a pretty much constant headache. My daughter is very bothered with the display also (other daughters still using LCD, and it doesn’t bother my son).
Frankly I LOVE the LCD display on the XR, and don’t see anything on my dd’s XS that would compel me to go that route (if I could).
I just hope OLED doesn’t quickly become the ONLY option - not sure what I would do at that point.
Frankly I LOVE the LCD display on the XR, and don’t see anything on my dd’s XS that would compel me to go that route (if I could).
I just hope OLED doesn’t quickly become the ONLY option - not sure what I would do at that point.
So, there are some good points in here that PWM headaches didn't start with OLED. It's true. I have had severe issues with many LCD screens in the past. When manufacturers first started putting LED backlights in LCD displays it was PWM all over the place. Apple did good with this, and while I believe that early LED backlit MacBooks used PWM, later models didn't, or used such high frequencies that it was a non-issue for most.
I have had several computer monitors causing me severe eye strain and headaches over the years (and CRT's before then) as well as several smartphones.
But here's the frustrating part, only recently did most good phones ditch PWM for analog dimming, and just as it looked like PWM related health issues were going to be a thing of the past (at least on phones), OLED's made their big time entry into the market. Not only that, but most LCD phones these days are considered budget devices, and most of them are using PWM to save cost. So not only can those of us that are sensitive not use OLED equipped phones, but the LCD selection without PWM is getting slimmer by the day. That's why I'm so thankful that Apple released the XR. If it's not followed up by another LCD model, it may be the last usable phone for me for a while, until technology catches up and allows for true flicker free OLEDs. I can't wait for that day, when I can look at a device, and go "I'm getting this" instead of "I wonder if it will hurt my eyes and give me headaches", followed by hours of research and then potentially buying and having to return again...
I actively avoid getting electronics that I as a tech enthusiast want simply because of this. Like the Nintendo Switch, for which I know at least some batches cause issues for people. It uses an LCD, but it either uses PWM or does some image processing that is problematic.
I have had several computer monitors causing me severe eye strain and headaches over the years (and CRT's before then) as well as several smartphones.
But here's the frustrating part, only recently did most good phones ditch PWM for analog dimming, and just as it looked like PWM related health issues were going to be a thing of the past (at least on phones), OLED's made their big time entry into the market. Not only that, but most LCD phones these days are considered budget devices, and most of them are using PWM to save cost. So not only can those of us that are sensitive not use OLED equipped phones, but the LCD selection without PWM is getting slimmer by the day. That's why I'm so thankful that Apple released the XR. If it's not followed up by another LCD model, it may be the last usable phone for me for a while, until technology catches up and allows for true flicker free OLEDs. I can't wait for that day, when I can look at a device, and go "I'm getting this" instead of "I wonder if it will hurt my eyes and give me headaches", followed by hours of research and then potentially buying and having to return again...
I actively avoid getting electronics that I as a tech enthusiast want simply because of this. Like the Nintendo Switch, for which I know at least some batches cause issues for people. It uses an LCD, but it either uses PWM or does some image processing that is problematic.
Exactly, no one who has a XR and is happy with it is “defending” the LCD to “justify their purchase”. The only ones I see as “justifying” anything are the few arrogant XS/Max users who seem to enjoy talking down to other peoples about their product choice to justify their own and massage their ego. You have a more expensive phone, congratulations folks!
I’ve said it elsewhere; I’ve never known MacRumors to be so console war in nature as it is now. At least with console wars, as much as I think they’re childish, they’re between people on opposing platforms. We’re all using iPhone here, we all opt to use iOS. Yet we’re seeing people belittling others on the same platform because they dared to choose a “lesser device”? That’s poor, really poor.
Yeah I would echo this. Though I wish I would have gone with the XS for the 3D Touch and dual camera, the screen resolution and color reproduction is one thing I am quite happy with having come from Plus sized iPhones since the 6 Plus. I admittedly have never owned an OLED iPhone so cannot comment on pros and cons of Apple LCD and OLED. But, I can say, the XR screen is great. No complaints at all.
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Wow, that’s starkly different, and obviously much better on the X. I will say, to add to my previous comments on my XR display, the only nitpick I’d have is the off axis is bad and the blacks aren’t black and I don’t own any OLED devices. Just a black display next to the notch is obviously grey and not really black.
Really glad I found this thread because I’ve had an XS Max for 5 days now and I’m ready to throw this thing in the trash.
My biggest complaints-
1. Off-axis color is abysmal. It’s a phone; are you guys always looking at perfectly on-axis? Tilt the screen as little as a few degrees and the orange tint becomes blue. How is this remotely acceptable?
2. I’ve played in the “color filters” (hue, intensity) menu extensively/obsessively over the last 5 days and I can’t achieve an acceptable white in any ambient light. Pink/orange push or blue push, pick your poison. Speaking of the hue/intensity settings, why in the world didn’t apple make this a numeric entry as opposed to a scroll selection? It’s impossible to keep track of settings or do any comparisons.
3. I was noticing significant ghosting the first few days and it was driving me nuts. I’ve either gotten used to it since then or the other display issues have just given me more grief and I’ve stopped paying attention to the ghosting. Used the 7 Plus daily for 2 years up until the very moment I picked up the XS Max and never had this issue.
4. I’m not getting headaches (yet), but this screen gives me significant eye strain/fatigue. My eyes burn by end of day. My usage hasn’t changed, and I’ve played with every imaginable combination of brightness/color filter/true tone on-off/high contrast on-off and none of this has changed the fact that my eyes are just tired of looking at this screen by mid morning.
5. Lastly and perhaps the source of the most frustration, the phone displays a different picture depending on ambient lighting, or at least this is the way it is perceived by the eye. I’ll leave my office, get in the car and the phone looks completely off. True Tone does not resolve this issue for me at all, it just introduces more of a pink/blue push. Awful.
I’m definitely swapping this out for a “lesser” LCD model, I just haven’t decided which one yet. Cost isn’t a factor as this is a corp phone, however the XR is not one of our available devices. That would have been my first choice- all the features of XS, but with an LCD. The only other plus-size option Is the 8 Plus. A shame because I wanted to the upgraded camera, chip, etc. But none of these features are worth the downsides of the apple OLED IMO.
Between not being able to get a true white and the abysmal color shift even a few degrees off axis, I don’t understand how folks find this screen acceptable.
PS- I’m an apple fan. iPhones 4, 5, 7 Plus over the years. MacBook Pro, multiple iPads. Never any issues like this. I really wonder if this screen was presented in another phone/brand, whether folks would be more objective about its performance.
My biggest complaints-
1. Off-axis color is abysmal. It’s a phone; are you guys always looking at perfectly on-axis? Tilt the screen as little as a few degrees and the orange tint becomes blue. How is this remotely acceptable?
2. I’ve played in the “color filters” (hue, intensity) menu extensively/obsessively over the last 5 days and I can’t achieve an acceptable white in any ambient light. Pink/orange push or blue push, pick your poison. Speaking of the hue/intensity settings, why in the world didn’t apple make this a numeric entry as opposed to a scroll selection? It’s impossible to keep track of settings or do any comparisons.
3. I was noticing significant ghosting the first few days and it was driving me nuts. I’ve either gotten used to it since then or the other display issues have just given me more grief and I’ve stopped paying attention to the ghosting. Used the 7 Plus daily for 2 years up until the very moment I picked up the XS Max and never had this issue.
4. I’m not getting headaches (yet), but this screen gives me significant eye strain/fatigue. My eyes burn by end of day. My usage hasn’t changed, and I’ve played with every imaginable combination of brightness/color filter/true tone on-off/high contrast on-off and none of this has changed the fact that my eyes are just tired of looking at this screen by mid morning.
5. Lastly and perhaps the source of the most frustration, the phone displays a different picture depending on ambient lighting, or at least this is the way it is perceived by the eye. I’ll leave my office, get in the car and the phone looks completely off. True Tone does not resolve this issue for me at all, it just introduces more of a pink/blue push. Awful.
I’m definitely swapping this out for a “lesser” LCD model, I just haven’t decided which one yet. Cost isn’t a factor as this is a corp phone, however the XR is not one of our available devices. That would have been my first choice- all the features of XS, but with an LCD. The only other plus-size option Is the 8 Plus. A shame because I wanted to the upgraded camera, chip, etc. But none of these features are worth the downsides of the apple OLED IMO.
Between not being able to get a true white and the abysmal color shift even a few degrees off axis, I don’t understand how folks find this screen acceptable.
PS- I’m an apple fan. iPhones 4, 5, 7 Plus over the years. MacBook Pro, multiple iPads. Never any issues like this. I really wonder if this screen was presented in another phone/brand, whether folks would be more objective about its performance.
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Have you had the chance to compare your phone to another XS Max? Perhaps at an Apple Store? Because the problems you're describing might be specific to your unit. I mean, there are definitely some screwy XS/XS Max displays out there, so clearly you aren't alone. But I don't believe they're all like that. Mine is not. I don't perceive any off-axis color shift except at the most extreme angles. Nor any issues with changes in different lighting (at least, not since I turned off True Tone).
Re: the question posed in this thread - yes, certainly, I can understand preferring a good LCD over OLED. It's understandable. Both technologies have their pros/cons, and they're both capable of producing excellent displays. Poor ones, too, depending on calibration/flaws/the vagaries of mass production. It just sounds like some of your issues may not be directly tied to the display technology (though, granted, some of them may well be).
Agreed - the problem for me with OLEDs *is* the excessive contrast ... for which it's not possible to find a comfortable level.
And then there's the wrist-slittingly dismal white at lower brightnesses - and the reality-destroying psychedelic chromatic over-saturation.
That anyone is able to live with ANY of these misery-inducing abominations is testament to the incredible breadth of sensory difference in humans.
Unfortunately, we've pretty much seen the end of true IPS displays in Android devices - and I've just ordered an LG G7 ... which pretty much looks to be Last of The Mohicans (sniff).
Don't know what I'll do when that dies - maybe they'll invent some kind of spectacle technology that allows OLEDs not to suck quite so homicide-inducingly.
I really enjoyed reading this. You're a true wordsmith. Have you considered poetry?Agreed - the problem for me with OLEDs *is* the excessive contrast ... for which it's not possible to find a comfortable level.
And then there's the wrist-slittingly dismal white at lower brightnesses - and the reality-destroying psychedelic chromatic over-saturation.
That anyone is able to live with ANY of these misery-inducing abominations is testament to the incredible breadth of sensory difference in humans.
Unfortunately, we've pretty much seen the end of true IPS displays in Android devices - and I've just ordered an LG G7 ... which pretty much looks to be Last of The Mohicans (sniff).
Don't know what I'll do when that dies - maybe they'll invent some kind of spectacle technology that allows OLEDs not to suck quite so homicide-inducingly.
The LCD looks great and I've always been satisfied with my pre-OLED phones but when I set my work 8 next to my XS the difference is clear. At the same brightness setting, the XS is just brighter and more vibrant.
Thankyou - and I hope they were as enjoyable for you as they were cathartic for me.
They say it's healthy to bitch - and I can't really help but agree ... LOL
It’s not better to people who can’t use it due to PWM though. How much better OLED is is also hugely subjective. There are people who can agree it is better, but not better enough for the premium.
This is all over the place as it seems there are about an equal number of pros and cons in both sides.