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Melbourne Park

macrumors 65816
Still the absolutely ridiculous thing is the fact you cannot upgrade anything on an M1 or even add an eGPU. If they adopt this mentality with the mac pro.....pppffffff.
I suspect the GPU market must upset Intel quite a lot. Add to that the revenues from making GPUs and strategic protection perhaps, encouraged AMD to make their own CPUs which also now compete with Intel.

I wonder whether the dropping of Nvidia by Apple was related to the decision to drop the X-86 and go "M"? I wonder how 4 m1 chips in one box might perform graphically? Will separate GPUs be necessary? And would it be worth the effort, is there such are market?

One thing for sure though - Apple IMO has not innovated since Jobs died (the watch was already being designed I think). So, the M processor decision is at last an innovation.

But ghost wind - you've answered your own question. There is nothing else that will do the job in the Apple world, and that might be the case for some considerable time. Focus on expanding your niche and being productive. The 7,1 is a necessary tool, it seems to me you cannot afford not to have it. It's not like buying a car that depreciates like crazy and does not add any productivity. This machine will be the bedrock of your productivity and the opportunity cost of not acting sounds like its going to be quite high. You've now entered the moving world rather than still, and in one way, you're lucky, because the Mac Pro is here. You don't have to buy a trash can. Your main issue is configuration in reality. The Pro won't slow down either, no matter what Apple does with its fixed hardware solutions. I bought a new 5,1 in 2012. Its still going. In real money, the 7,1 is cheaper than mine was. And faster too. Go for it. And good luck.
 
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Stephen.R

Suspended
Nov 2, 2018
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Add to that the revenues from making GPUs and strategic protection perhaps, encouraged AMD to make their own CPUs which also now compete with Intel.
Wut?

AMD only make GPUs because they bought ATI. They didn’t make GPUs and then decide to go into competition with intel by making CPUs.
 
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ghostwind

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 18, 2020
115
51
Two things I wonder about.

1. For how long will Apple support the Mac Pro with OS and other updates?

2. Will Apple leave the pro market like they did before? Maybe they are happy with just phones, tablets, laptops, and iMacs. What percentage of their sales is the pro market? Tiny I bet. This could be the last Mac Pro perhaps.
 

IA64

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2013
552
66
Two things I wonder about.

1. For how long will Apple support the Mac Pro with OS and other updates?

2. Will Apple leave the pro market like they did before? Maybe they are happy with just phones, tablets, laptops, and iMacs. What percentage of their sales is the pro market? Tiny I bet. This could be the last Mac Pro perhaps.


1- At least 2023 - Probably 2024
2- Why do you even care. If it's going the last one it's gonna be a collector piece of hardware.
 

ghostwind

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 18, 2020
115
51
1- At least 2023 - Probably 2024
2- Why do you even care. If it's going the last one it's gonna be a collector piece of hardware.
I wonder, that's all. Why, because as I said earlier, whatever system I switch to, I want to be on it for 10 years. If Apple decides the pro market is not for them (which really would make sense), then moving to a PC now would be an easier decision (knowing I would not come back to any pro Mac in the future). See my last post about this 10 year plan.
 

Melbourne Park

macrumors 65816
I wonder, that's all. Why, because as I said earlier, whatever system I switch to, I want to be on it for 10 years. If Apple decides the pro market is not for them (which really would make sense), then moving to a PC now would be an easier decision (knowing I would not come back to any pro Mac in the future). See my last post about this 10 year plan.

What other single computer will last those 10 years?

You can be assured though, that with Applecare extending the full support for an extra three years, that means you'll be assured of 4 years full factory support. And with Apple, that support will be fast, and a good experience.

Jeez ... I had an issue with an Apple Airport Time capsule. Apple had stopped making those things, and mine, was years and years old. I called Apple, they switched me through to an expert, he fixed the issue. No charge. Its really not Apple's ethos to ignore their customers IMO. They rub people up the wrong way now and then, but that is when warranty is gone and there's been some perceived negligence. Which is far from the world of a Mac Pro.

Run your numbers on what you can achieve over 5 years. That's a very safe bet IMO. Can can you afford to go PC right now, when your busy making money? And as others have said, most bottlenecks in your arena lie with GPU performance. And the Pro will allow significant performance from its GPU architecture. Who knows whether an M2 or M3 architecture will allow that flexibility?
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,313
2,713
The OP’s target video camera will also not be relevant in 10 years, but that is a different topic for a different day...
 
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ghostwind

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 18, 2020
115
51
Look at post #111. What I said was, "I think whatever choice I make - Mac Pro or PC, I would have to stay on that platform for 10 years for it to make sense. Meaning if I go PC now, I will stay on PC for 10 years before going to another Mac. Moving back and forth is too time consuming for workflow, hardware, ecosystem, etc."

And this is what I was trying to say again above. Perhaps "platform" is the better word. I don't want to switch platforms every 4-5 years. Computers of course I will switch, cameras will evolve, etc.

Right now it's having to make a choice between the Mac Pro or a Puget AMD PC. Believe it or not, the main concern is not speed, but which will be supported over the next 4-5 years in terms of software updates.
 

OkiRun

macrumors 65816
Oct 25, 2019
1,005
585
Japan
Look at post #111. What I said was, "I think whatever choice I make - Mac Pro or PC, I would have to stay on that platform for 10 years for it to make sense. Meaning if I go PC now, I will stay on PC for 10 years before going to another Mac. Moving back and forth is too time consuming for workflow, hardware, ecosystem, etc."

And this is what I was trying to say again above. Perhaps "platform" is the better word. I don't want to switch platforms every 4-5 years. Computers of course I will switch, cameras will evolve, etc.

Right now it's having to make a choice between the Mac Pro or a Puget AMD PC. Believe it or not, the main concern is not speed, but which will be supported over the next 4-5 years in terms of software updates.
Did you notice yesterday's apple app upgrades that included FCPX and LOGIC? They included optimization for AS macs - yet they still updated on the Intel 7,1. I'm not worried about upgrades for the next 5 years. I did notice that Garageband (which I have never used) isn't compatible with Catalina but requires Big Sur. This is the kind of thing that will be more a hassle.
 

ghostwind

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 18, 2020
115
51
Did you notice yesterday's apple app upgrades that included FCPX and LOGIC? They included optimization for AS macs - yet they still updated on the Intel 7,1. I'm not worried about upgrades for the next 5 years. I did notice that Garageband (which I have never used) isn't compatible with Catalina but requires Big Sur. This is the kind of thing that will be more a hassle.
No, as I don't use either of those apps. But good to hear. Yeah, I noticed the GarageBand incompatibility with Catalina.

Screen Shot 2020-11-23 at 11.48.22 PM.png
 

Stephen.R

Suspended
Nov 2, 2018
4,356
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OK. But the end result has been much the same. I got confused, because I remembered AMD was valued at 1.5 billion a few years after ATI and them joined up! However, the strategic point stands.
What strategic point? AMD have been competing with intel in the microprocessor business since the 70s iirc.
 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
3,344
2,975
Australia
Do you need more than 2 displays total (including the built-in laptop display)? The M1 Macs aren't for you. Seems the easiest "does it make sense" option right now.
 

darthaddie

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2018
182
222
Planet Earth
Ok some real world testing here. I tried editing a really wedding on my friends Mac mini M1.

Lightroom and photoshop are totally unusable. They might be good for a few edits but not for production use. They seemed to run fine at the beginning but slowed down drastically 10 mins into the edit. Each photo would take 10-20 secs to open in photoshop via Lightroom. I know these are not optimized and updates will come but in the current state I find it hilarious that every YouTuber states that they run fine. Exports in Lightroom are excruciatingly slow for my Leica SL2 raw files. I am talking 20-30 mins to export 150 files. On my Mac Pro they export in under 3-4 mins.

FCP edits and exports run fine.
Besides most of the plugins in FCP are not working. I am talking titles and transition plugins.

8 or 16GB RAM is not enough. Please do not fall in for the hype. If you are an average user you’ll be good. If your machine earns you money it’ll be frustrating as hell to work on these new M1’s

Other issues I encountered

1. My LG 5K display (second gen) would revert to 4K randomly.
2. The display would randomly blank out.
3. softraid drives do not show up. They show up in Disk utility but not as a usable drive
4. Apple software RAID drives are giving an error that drives have failed when they are working just fine on intel macs.
5. Connecting more than a few TB3 drives slow down transfer speeds. Even if only one of them is being used
6. Photoshop and Lightroom under Rosetta would randomly freeze.
7. Loading a custom monitor color profile causes the system to randomly revert to other color profiles when the Mac is woken up from sleep
8. Affinity photo is optimized for M1 but is dreadfully slow
9. Using google backup sync will randomly slow down the system
10. Starting a render of FCP, export from Lightroom renders the system unusable for any other tasks. You cannot even do basic browsing in Safari without too. much lag.
11. I believe the 2 TB3 ports across all M1's are on one single bus. Attach a few demanding devices and you are in for a disaster recipe.
12. Lightroom does not support GPU acceleration are runs on CPU only. (This isn't mentioned in any fo the reviews online... Duh?!
13. It was mentioned that the new MacBooks instantly wake from sleep, the Mac mini however takes 3-5 seconds, same as my Mac Pro. Even without any drives connected.
14. There was a video showing how fast all the apps launched on the new MBA. I might sound crazy but I tried that on my MBP 15 and my Mac Pro and they launch with the same speed. What gives??? lol
15. Attaching 2 monitors, one through TB3 and one through HDMI work fine, but would randomly blink for no reason at all.
16. If you connect 2 monitors via a TB3 dock like Caldigit, you cannot extend them but only mirror them.
17. Canon printer drives do not work YET and the Apple drivers for my PRO-100 product horrible colors. Good for general use, but not for paid prints.
18. Reboot speeds are the same as any intel Mac once you have everything installed.

I might sound negative but there are enough positives and false positives over the Internet.

I understand it’s a new and very promising system. What I don’t get is everyone suggesting to NOT buy any intel macs anymore. M1’s are definitely not good for production use YET. They will be and will certainly blow out intel macs in performance. But in due time.
Don’t risk your business on these is what I am saying.
 
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MarkC426

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2008
3,700
2,097
UK
Good job testing things...... ?
In reality (as Apple pretty much stated), the M1 mini basically replaces the i3 mini, which is for low end joe ;)
 
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MarkC426

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2008
3,700
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You have answered a few questions I had.
I need multiple drives, which just wouldn’t perform externally.

Does it show hyperthreading threads like an intel?
 

darthaddie

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2018
182
222
Planet Earth
You have answered a few questions I had.
I need multiple drives, which just wouldn’t perform externally.

Does it show hyperthreading threads like an intel?

No. I believe M1 does not support SMT. So total 8 threads. I did a few file transfer tests. When running Blackmagic speed test, I get over 2700MB/s read write on my OWC TB3 SSD RAID. But when I copy a single file (100GB), it'll slow down randomly and pick up speeds. Don't know why this is happening.
 

Melbourne Park

macrumors 65816
What strategic point? AMD have been competing with intel in the microprocessor business since the 70s iirc.
Competitive advantage. Economy of scale. Other markets. Gaining CPU R&D. Synergy. Joining with a GPU maker allows attacking a high profit arena of a competitor, hence weakening the competitors ability to cross subsidise to gain market share. There's more too but its way off topic.

Most joint ventures and takeovers result in lower share prices, unless various business units are sold off (or stripped out). The value after the join went down to one third of the company's share price, or around one seventh of the two businesses total values at the time of joining. However now, the share prices is multiple times greater. Strategically it seems to have been the right move.

However, its not an area I know much about. And its off topic.
 
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ghostwind

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 18, 2020
115
51
While looking here for a custom PC, I came across this article. Damn, I assumed the PCs would be faster, but this much faster? Crazy. Hard decision to make to switch to a PC still...Argh!

 

strayts

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2011
241
375
Man I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but what about a thread ripper PC with an RTX 3090 (if you can find one)? It's just incredible how much more performance you get for your dollar.
 

IA64

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2013
552
66
While looking here for a custom PC, I came across this article. Damn, I assumed the PCs would be faster, but this much faster? Crazy. Hard decision to make to switch to a PC still...Argh!



The Mac Pro was never a top performer rather a good one. You'll always see after release of the Mac pro videos and threads about the " Mac Pro Killer " for half the price etc...

I don't know about the credibility of this benchmark, you are running two different environments Windows and Mac OS. I'd be more than happy to see the performance difference of both machines under Windows.

From the results, see the TR3970X always on top of the TR3990X raises some questions.
 

OkiRun

macrumors 65816
Oct 25, 2019
1,005
585
Japan
Primer Pro work the same in PC as Mac. Look the same, same workflow. Same After Effects. Just uploading, clicking buttons and drop/dragging and exporting.
You just open application and use. UI is same.
If you only use PP - then Mac operating system is not necessary and there is no 'adjusting' to PC computer necessary. Just turn on computer and open application. Run application.
If our client never comes to office ~ we will use FCPX as it is easier and faster production. They can't tell what application used to edit when seeing final product. Have had client be suspicious some times :)
Sometimes client demand PP as they have special after effects needed or director wants to see progress and they use PP only so need to share. We use PC in office for this demand. It is only when the demand is high and PCs are all taken does the 7,1 get put into use for PP. But it run fine using Mac OS . Easy to use for multiple streams of any (k) size clip.
PCs in office make money. Since first day you post thread, Mac 7,1 make 3 commercials for total of 626616.00 yen. All using FCPX.
If you are single entrepreneur editor at the moment, the most important thing is to be able to answer 'yes' to client.
Can you work with RED Raw? Yes
Can you work with ProRes Raw? Yes
Can you work with our particular camera? Yes
Can you use After Effects? Yes
Can you color grade? Yes
Do you have studio monitors and sound room for sound editing? Yes
Can you work with our editors? Yes
Can you be ready to shoot by 5:00 am tomorrow morning? Yes
Can you location hunt quickly and get permissions? Yes
Can you make my car commercial with Geishas ssumo wrestling JPop Boy Band in parking lot with fireworks in background and have finished in 24 hours? Yes

Hoping this helps imagination for purchase.
 

IA64

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2013
552
66
Primer Pro work the same in PC as Mac. Look the same, same workflow. Same After Effects. Just uploading, clicking buttons and drop/dragging and exporting.

Completely incorrect. Just because the UI is the same doesn't mean the performance is the same. Unrelated. It's been the case since ever and I can clearly feel a difference in speed between the two OS depending on what you're doing....

Check this for example....

 
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