Does the lack of T2 in the 2019 models mean premature obsolescence down the road?

[Whackintosh]

I'm thinking specifically about what could happen with future versions of OSX that I presume will be coded to make increasingly core use of the T2 now that it's a part of the full modern Mac line with the exception of iMacs. That's really the only reason I'm holding back from buying this year's machine.

 

[redheeler]

Given that the T2 first showed up a little over a year ago on the iMac Pro, it's reasonable to expect 6-7 years of OS support for any 2019 Mac that doesn't have it, though no one outside of Apple knows for sure.

The problem will come after the 6-7 year period when Apple does drop support. I suspect it will be harder to install an unsupported version of MacOS on older Macs at that point, and Hackintoshers will be struggling to work around the T2 reliance as well. Requiring a co-processor that only exists in supported Mac hardware is a nice form of DRM when you think about it from Apple's point of view...

 

[Plutonius]

I'm thinking specifically about what could happen with future versions of OSX that I presume will be coded to make increasingly core use of the T2 now that it's a part of the full modern Mac line with the exception of iMacs. That's really the only reason I'm holding back from buying this year's machine.

I think that it would actually have better resale value in the future.

Not too many people I know want the T2 bridgeOS errors .

 

[Shivetya]

all it tells me is that Apple refused to drop spinning media and the T2 does not support that. That and this is just another incremental refresh that really brought nothing new to the platform.

 

[dcpmark]

all it tells me is that Apple refused to drop spinning media and the T2 does not support that. That and this is just another incremental refresh that really brought nothing new to the platform.

Is there another computer manufacturer that only sells 100% SSD-based entry-level computers?

While I have all SSDs for my internal and external drives, and could never imagine going back, I think that some people don’t need SSD, and would just like to save a few bucks when buying their new iMac. Apple is giving people options, no?

 

[macduke]

all it tells me is that Apple refused to drop spinning media and the T2 does not support that. That and this is just another incremental refresh that really brought nothing new to the platform.

I mean, aside from it being the fastest single core Mac of any kind ever made, and the fourth fastest multi-core Mac ever made, and one of the biggest performance jumps the standard iMac line has ever seen going from four cores to eight with a workstation class GPU—yeah sure it was no big deal that brought nothing new.

This thing is a beast for the price. Linus Tech Tips even said it's pretty reasonable compared to building your own PC. I love mine. The Mac is mature at this point. What were you honestly expecting—a 6K display in the standard iMac before the iMac Pro or Mac Pro? Maybe in the next update it will fart rainbows too. It's a freaking computer. If this doesn't suit your needs, wait for the next iMac Pro with the 31.5" 6K liquid retina display option. It will likely start at $5999-6999. You can buy that instead.

 

[_Skyfire_]

I mean, aside from it being the fastest single core Mac of any kind ever made, and the fourth fastest multi-core Mac ever made, and one of the biggest performance jumps the standard iMac line has ever seen going from four cores to eight with a workstation class GPU—yeah sure it was no big deal that brought nothing new.

This thing is a beast for the price. Linus Tech Tips even said it's pretty reasonable compared to building your own PC. I love mine. The Mac is mature at this point. What were you honestly expecting—a 6K display in the standard iMac before the iMac Pro or Mac Pro? Maybe in the next update it will fart rainbows too. It's a freaking computer. If this doesn't suit your needs, wait for the next iMac Pro with the 31.5" 6K liquid retina display option. It will likely start at $5999-6999. You can buy that instead.

You're correct in pointing out how fast the new iMac is. And obviously for many professionals whose default was to buy an iMP, to get equivalent juice out of a consumer machine and save 1000's, it's a big deal. And even as a new pc for your average Joe, the 19' iMac is a very good purchase.

However there is also a legitimate case for being disappointed in the iMac just receiving a CPU update after a wait of almost 2 full calendar years. There are those who have called for a complete redesign with a 6K bezel less display, that is true. Many people really though just wanted a more functional update utilizing already existing components and technology. Personally I was expecting updated ports and a thermal redesign.

Whereas the GPU is concerned, paying €450 extra for a card that is jerry-rigged from old surplus stock is not much of an update in my book. I certainly expected to see the 2019 iMac released with a Navi GPU. Considering that the wait was already 21 months, I can't believe this particular design choice. Doesn't feel like a customer-friendly decision, that's for sure.

Also as a sidenote some on this board have theorized if apple had continued offering 7th gen CPUs, this would have been more expensive for them due to availability.

 

[netdudeuk]

Is there another computer manufacturer that only sells 100% SSD-based entry-level computers?

Nearly £2000 for the 5K model is hardly 'entry-level'

 

[xgman]

T2 is nothing to lust after. I hate it in my imac pro and wish it wasn't there at all. Nothing but problems.

 

[dcpmark]

Nearly £2000 for the 5K model is hardly 'entry-level'

Sorry, but “entry-level” for a brand has nothing to do with your ability to afford it, or whether you think the price is reasonable.

 

[SecuritySteve]

T2 is nothing to lust after. I hate it in my imac pro and wish it wasn't there at all. Nothing but problems.

I have the opposite opinion, seeing as it increases my SSD performance and has the ability to offload tasks such as the camera while I am doing computationally heavy things on the main CPU.

Totally something to lust after. The T2 makes your Mac faster. Is it another point of failure? Yes. Is it as bad as people make it out to be? Nope. I have two machines with T2 processors, and have not had a problem with either since High Sierra.

 

[Whackintosh]

I have the opposite opinion, seeing as it increases my SSD performance and has the ability to offload tasks such as the camera while I am doing computationally heavy things on the main CPU.

Totally something to lust after. The T2 makes your Mac faster. Is it another point of failure? Yes. Is it as bad as people make it out to be? Nope. I have two machines with T2 processors, and have not had a problem with either since High Sierra.[/QUO]

Exactly what I'm thinking about. The T2 chip offers such a different approach to resource management / execution that I can't imagine future OS builds not taking increasing advantage over it, leaving the unequipped machines potentially in the dust. It's crazy to me that Apple are selling iMacs in 2019 without the chip. I'm strongly considering waiting for the updated iMac Pros to be announced so as to potentially be able to get a good deal on a refurb of the previous entry-level one.

 

[netdudeuk]

Sorry, but “entry-level” for a brand has nothing to do with your ability to afford it, or whether you think the price is reasonable.

I didn't mention affordability or whether the price is reasonable. For nearly £2000 though, in 2019, mechanical hard drives shouldn't be in any iMacs. There are plenty of comments in the Macrumors forums agreeing with me on this.

 

[dcpmark]

I didn't mention affordability or whether the price is reasonable. For nearly £2000 though, in 2019, mechanical hard drives shouldn't be in any iMacs. There are plenty of comments in the Macrumors forums agreeing with me on this.

Yeah, I might need some clarification as to the point you are trying to make... are you saying Apple shouldn’t sell a 27” iMac with 1TB Fusion Drive for $1799 at all because they shouldn’t sell spinning storage, that the base model should only be the 256GB SSD for $1899? Or are you saying that for $1799, you should get the 256GB SSD?

 

[SecuritySteve]

Exactly what I'm thinking about. The T2 chip offers such a different approach to resource management / execution that I can't imagine future OS builds not taking increasing advantage over it, leaving the unequipped machines potentially in the dust. It's crazy to me that Apple are selling iMacs in 2019 without the chip. I'm strongly considering waiting for the updated iMac Pros to be announced so as to potentially be able to get a good deal on a refurb of the previous entry-level one.

The iMac Pros are only due for update as soon as the 2019 iMacs are due for updates. The 2019 iMac Pro got a spec bump as well, with updated GPUs and 256 GB RAM capacity update. No CPU or SSD upgrades though.

 

[dspdoc]

I have the opposite opinion, seeing as it increases my SSD performance and has the ability to offload tasks such as the camera while I am doing computationally heavy things on the main CPU.

Totally something to lust after. The T2 makes your Mac faster. Is it another point of failure? Yes. Is it as bad as people make it out to be? Nope. I have two machines with T2 processors, and have not had a problem with either since High Sierra.

I disagree and would say it is indeed as bad as people make it out to be.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

T2 itself is not something to lust after.

T3 with the kinks of the T2 worked out may be

I'm hoping the redesigned 2020/2021 iMac will do away with the spinning drives and feature a new and improved T3 co-processor. We shall see.

 

[mj_]

T3 is nothing to lust after either. It's something to stay as far away from as humanly possible. This chip is a piece of garbage and nothing but a stealth DRM chip. A hardware dongle to make sure the users only do what they're allowed and supposed to. It's yet another piece of evidence of Apple's extremely excessive paternalism paired with glaring disdain for their user base. From now on Apple knows what's best for you and what software you want to run in the future. It's not your choice, from now on it's Tim's decision.

Why would anyone ever want that?

I, for one, am glad neither my 2017 MacBook nor my 2017 iMac have that dreaded T2 chip. Should my 2017 iMac break or become too slow in the future I am glad I'll have the 2019 iMac to choose from and will be able to avoid the T2 sh*tshow for a few more years.

 

[SecuritySteve]

T3 is nothing to lust after either. It's something to stay as far away from as humanly possible. This chip is a piece of garbage and nothing but a stealth DRM chip. A hardware dongle to make sure the users only do what they're allowed and supposed to. It's yet another piece of evidence of Apple's extremely excessive paternalism paired with glaring disdain for their user base. From now on Apple knows what's best for you and what software you want to run in the future. It's not your choice, from now on it's Tim's decision.

Why would anyone ever want that?

I like it as an SSD controller and CPU offloader. That's what I want about it. Oh, and it also protects from some physical vulnerabilities that other machines simply cannot do anything against, but I think of that as an added bonus as opposed to the main feature, at least for my use cases.

 

[mj_]

I like it as an SSD controller and CPU offloader. That's what I want about it. Oh, and it also protects from some physical vulnerabilities that other machines simply cannot do anything against, but I think of that as an added bonus as opposed to the main feature, at least for my use cases.

Yes. That's the parts that Apple heavily advertises.

What they don't tell you is that the T2 chip also allows them to effectively control what operating system you run on your Mac, what software you will be able to run, whether or not you'll be able to install an older officially no longer supported version of macOS (think iOS and Apple's insistance on only allowing the latest version to install), and whether or not you'll be able to run alternative operating systems such as Linux or Windows on your Mac. It will also kill the Hackintosh scene the second the T2 becomes a requirement for running macOS (think of it as a sort of hardware dongle) as well as be the end of people like dosdude who try to provide ways of running macOS on hardware deemed obsolete by Apple based on nothing but age and release year.

 

[SecuritySteve]

Yes. That's the parts that Apple heavily advertises.

What they don't tell you is that the T2 chip also allows them to effectively control what operating system you run on your Mac, what software you will be able to run, whether or not you'll be able to install an older officially no longer supported version of macOS (think iOS and Apple's insistance on only allowing the latest version to install), and whether or not you'll be able to run alternative operating systems such as Linux or Windows on your Mac. It will also kill the Hackintosh scene the second the T2 becomes a requirement for running macOS (think of it as a sort of hardware dongle) as well as be the end of people like dosdude who try to provide ways of running macOS on hardware deemed obsolete by Apple based on nothing but age and release year.

So, here we are again. Why would anyone ever want that?

I can bootcamp just fine ... for everything else there's virtual machines. I guess if you want to hold onto your computer for 10 years it is a problem.

I see your opinion, and I respect it. but I strongly disagree with it.

 

[mj_]

I see your opinion, and I respect it. but I strongly disagree with it.

I absolutely respect that. Life would be boring if we all agreed on everything all the time, wouldn't it?

 

[mikehalloran]

I think that it would actually have better resale value in the future.

Not too many people I know want the T2 bridgeOS errors .

What errors are you talking about? The ones fixed in OS 10.14.4?

Is there another computer manufacturer that only sells 100% SSD-based entry-level computers

Yes, a few sold to certain specialty markets. The one I’m familiar with begins at $8,999 for 8 Core 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD AV box — monitor is sold separately. Yes, that’s the entry level. The high end machine is $150,000.

However there is also a legitimate case for being disappointed in the iMac just receiving a CPU update after a wait of almost 2 full calendar years.

Oh dear... you’re disappointed.

I certainly expected to see the 2019 iMac released with a Navi GPU

and that did not happen.

Next

T2 is nothing to lust after. I hate it in my imac pro and wish it wasn't there at all. Nothing but problems.

Since OS 10.14.4, what problems remain? I have an iMac Pro and am curious. I waited till the kernel panic issues went away on USB 2 audio devices before buying.

I disagree and would say it is indeed as bad as people make it out to be.

Personal experiences or old news you read on the internet?

What they don't tell you is that the T2 chip also allows them to effectively control what operating system you run on your Mac, what software you will be able to run, whether or not you'll be able to install an older officially no longer supported version of macOS

Just like every Mac since the 68030 Macintosh. Can you install OS 9 on a G5? How about Tiger on an Intel Mac? Ok, how about High Sierra on an i9 iMac?

 

[_Skyfire_]

Oh dear... you’re disappointed.

That's your reply...are you 4?

Or perchance you need that snarky response to make your miserable life a bit more bearable. How sad..

 

[dspdoc]

What errors are you talking about? The ones fixed in OS 10.14.4?


Yes, a few sold to certain specialty markets. The one I’m familiar with begins at $8,999 for 8 Core 32GB RAM, 1 TB SSD AV box — monitor is sold separately. Yes, that’s the entry level. The high end machine is $150,000.


Oh dear... you’re disappointed.

and that did not happen.

Next


Since OS 10.14.4, what problems remain? I have an iMac Pro and am curious. I waited till the kernel panic issues went away on USB 2 audio devices before buying.


Personal experiences or old news you read on the internet?

Just like every Mac since the 68030 Macintosh. Can you install OS 9 on a G5? How about Tiger on an Intel Mac? Ok, how about High Sierra on an i9 iMac?

Der, personal experience. Time and again on many T2 machines. It is a problem. Especially for audio people.