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Nov 28, 2010
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I'd need a computer capable of Thunderbolt first. And even then, what would be the point? USB is cheaper and more universal. Thunderbolt is just plain pointless in my opinion, just like FireWire was.

Unfortunately, I just don't need it.

While I haven't used TB that much, only to copy data from REDmags via eSATA to TB and USB 3.0 HDDs, I have had plenty of use for Firewire 800 HDDs.
The daisy chain capabilities alone were a big plus in the pre USB 3.0 times, I had I guess around 13 FW800 HDDs connected to one single FW800 bus on a Mac Pro 4,1 and it worked quite well when all the cables were not that long.
I could have done the same with USB 2.0 HDDs and USB 2.0 hubs, but it would have been quite slow for playing back several streams of multiple cameras.
eSATA was another choice, but those 4- or 8-bay eSATA enclosures did sometimes cost more than four or eight 1 TB HDDs.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,422
I don't disagree, but...


I would say that Apple should have taken steps to make it successful. For example, they could have developed IC's for docking and sold something like the Belkin box for $99 or $149, and that would have made a ton of money and the interface would have been adopted in droves. And they could have developed a Thunderbolt to SATA chip so that Thunderbolt hard disks are as cheap as USB 3.0 hard disks. And they should have developed or funded the IC's needed for cheap Thunderbolt cables.

Those moves would make Thunderbolt a success and would have made Apple products much better. The problem with Thunderbolt has been cost, and cost is a problem because inexpensive Thunderbolt IC's were never developed.

Apple doesn't seem to mind if it's successful, though. They seem to want to use it as a method of having their products stand out.
 

thehustleman

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2013
1,123
1
When Apple initially launched Thunderbolt, it looked as though the single-connector laptop, integrating data and video, had arrived. But then came reality:

1) Thunderbolt can't power the laptop, so it's a two-cable connection.
2) Everything Thunderbolt is vastly more expensive - cables, displays, hard disks, etc.
3) USB 3.0 arrived on virtually all PC desktops and laptops, and even on Apple's laptops. It uses an existing connector and offers 5 Gbit/second. And there are no current scenarios for transmitting more than 5 Gbit/second over a cable, unless it's video.
4) Intel has promised to double USB 3.0 speeds to 10 Gbit/second, which is about equal to Thunderbolt.
5) Unless you have a Thunderbolt display, there are virtually no Thunderbolt hubs. So you can't, for instance, use Thunderbolt Ethernet and an external display at the same time. Unless your laptop has two Thunderbolt ports.

So this all leads me to believe that Thunderbolt has failed. Between the exorbitant costs of cables and accessories, and the virtually ubiquitous availability of affordable, acceptably-fast USB 3.0 peripherals, there seems to be no reason left for Thunderbolt, and it is likely to become extinct.

Much as I pine for a single-cable laptop connection, it doesn't look like Thunderbolt is going to survive. What say you?

Fact is whoever developed thunderbolt screwed it up.

Pricing is too high.

If they were smart, pricing would have been in line with USB THEN they stood a chance
 

jolux

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2014
171
1
Fact is whoever developed thunderbolt screwed it up.

Pricing is too high.

If they were smart, pricing would have been in line with USB THEN they stood a chance

It's because the cables are active. And it's honestly not that expensive when you consider the components that go on either side of it and the typical user's income.
 

Alameda

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 22, 2012
1,228
841
It's because the cables are active. And it's honestly not that expensive when you consider the components that go on either side of it and the typical user's income.
Going back to the original question: With USB 3.0 capable of 5 Gbs, why would someone pay about double for a Thunderbolt solution?

In my case: My MacBook Air only has USB 2.0. Belkin's Thubderbolt dock now costs $150 at Amazon.com. Excellent value! My storage is now four times faster, and with one cable, I connect display, keyboard, mouse, Ethernet, my USB 3 card reader and my two USB 3.0 backup drives. I wouldn't pay the original $300 price for that, but for $150, it's a great deal. I love it!

But USB is getting even faster. Even though I use it daily, I think that in the long run, Thunderbolt is definitely toast. Just look at the number of USB 3 vs Thunderbolt hard drives. And then look at prices.


Yes, there will be video editors and photographers who will use Thunderbolt-based RAID. But that's an esoteric market.
 

jolux

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2014
171
1
Going back to the original question: With USB 3.0 capable of 5 Gbs, why would someone pay about double for a Thunderbolt solution?

In my case: My MacBook Air only has USB 2.0. Belkin's Thubderbolt dock now costs $150 at Amazon.com. Excellent value! My storage is now four times faster, and with one cable, I connect display, keyboard, mouse, Ethernet, my USB 3 card reader and my two USB 3.0 backup drives. I wouldn't pay the original $300 price for that, but for $150, it's a great deal. I love it!

But USB is getting even faster. Even though I use it daily, I think that in the long run, Thunderbolt is definitely toast. Just look at the number of USB 3 vs Thunderbolt hard drives. And then look at prices.


Yes, there will be video editors and photographers who will use Thunderbolt-based RAID. But that's an esoteric market.

Your speeds aren't 4x faster. The Thunderbolt will be bottleneck by the USB 2.0.

Thunderbolt 2 is 20Gbps in two directions, so it's much faster and more universal. DisplayPort is the best monitor connector available, and it has a clear up and down side so it doesn't have to be reversible. If USB C is better than DisplayPort for video and faster than Thunderbolt, then the reversibility makes sense. Otherwise it's just a gimmick.
 

Alameda

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 22, 2012
1,228
841
Does USB 3.0 mean Thunderbolt is dead?

Your speeds aren't 4x faster. The Thunderbolt will be bottleneck by the USB 2.0.



Thunderbolt 2 is 20Gbps in two directions, so it's much faster and more universal. DisplayPort is the best monitor connector available, and it has a clear up and down side so it doesn't have to be reversible. If USB C is better than DisplayPort for video and faster than Thunderbolt, then the reversibility makes sense. Otherwise it's just a gimmick.


Yes, I benchmarked my drives and they are more than 4x faster now. They are USB 3.0 drives. They had been attached to my Air's USB 2.0 ports. The Belkin Thunderbolt dock has three USB 3.0 ports, so now my external storage is four times faster. I copied 25 GB from my card reader to my hard drives at an actual speed of over 61 MB/second.

My drives are just portable 2.5" drives. I could probably get even better performance with full size drives.


Blackmagic Disk Speed Test Results:
Using Belkin USB 3.0 Ports via Thunderbolt:
92.7 write
94.2 read

Using USB 2.0 ports built-into my MacBook Air:
22.8 write
29.3 read
 
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jolux

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2014
171
1
Yes, I benchmarked my drives and they are more than 4x faster now. They are USB 3.0 drives. They had been attached to my Air's USB 2.0 ports. The Belkin Thunderbolt dock has three USB 3.0 ports, so now my external storage is four times faster. I copied 25 GB from my card reader to my hard drives at an actual speed of over 61 MB/second.

My drives are just portable 2.5" drives. I could probably get even better performance with full size drives.


Blackmagic Disk Speed Test Results:
Using Belkin USB 3.0 Ports via Thunderbolt:
92.7 write
94.2 read

Using USB 2.0 ports built-into my MacBook Air:
22.8 write
29.3 read

Oh, I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying you were hooking up Thunderbolt drives and plugging the dock in through USB 2.0. Sorry!
 
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