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Spacekatgal

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 9, 2009
203
0
I think this is all about product placement and timing. Jobs wasn't satisfied with the (r)evolution of MBA until recently, then held back until just before the holiday shopping period to put out this newest toy.

(Toy, of course, being my male way of saying technology.) :D

I have a friend who works with Adobe and has a lot of knowledge of where computers are placed within an organization. It's his belief (and it makes a lot of sense) that MBA is directly targeted at managers. It's a fully functioning computer, but ultra-portable. Enough to stay in touch, do the occasional touch up on an underling's work, but ultimately just a basic computer. It's the drones who get the MBP's etc to do the 'heavy lifting.'

And, to pull from the now closed thread, I think the battery time is less important in a machine like this. Not to say it doesn't need a bump in power, but as a tool directed at management, it's not the bottom line, so to speak. Any battery talk, IMHO, has to be the compromise within Apple. It's that aspect that the managing crew doesn't really care about as much (since they don't use their computers nearly as much in general) but other members of the purchasing public desire. A student, for instance, needs more than three hours to compose that deadline essay while sitting in the cafeteria.

Therefore, I suspect this is just an evolution of a great machine. Some enhancements, potentially even more portable, and a small bump in battery time. I believe it's critical, though, for Apple to continue to position this as the "manager" machine; it has to be capable *enough.* To expect anything extraordinary, I think, is unrealistic.

I think this is true, but as I said in my original post I think you're ignoring the other part of the MBA market - girls. I think there's perhaps a little sneering at the girly desire for a machine that is cute, small and portable - but I will be honest. This is the reason I originally bought an MBA. I wanted a laptop I could put in a designer bag and carry.

I think a lot of the MBA market are girls that primarily Facebook, download iTMS content and write papers. This part of the market doesn't understand anything about discrete/integrated GPUs, and just wants it to last longer.

I just don't think Apple will ever find success in their MBA by only targeting managers. There aren't enough of them.

As for a previous comment about Jobs supposed slow evolution into a money-hungry corrupt old man, I have to disagree. I, personally, don't see any difference in Jobs' values. I think his brush with death has whittled further away at his patience - in his words, he knows to "turn the volume up" louder now. But I don't see any difference in his principles.

Remember, this is the same man that crippled the original Macintosh by not giving enough RAM.
 

gianly1985

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2008
798
0
The last time Apple held a Mac event (commanded Holidays like WWDC and MWSF don't count) the Unibody technology was unveiled...

http://movies.apple.com/datapub/us/podcasts/apple_keynotes/sj-keynote-20081014.m4v

After that, even (relatively) major desktop Macs revisions (new all metal unibody casing for iMacs! IPS displays all accross the line-up! humongous 60%+ resolution on the big iMac! new all-metal unibody MacMini!) didn't manage to deserve an EVENT.

If they're holding an event, I expect some kind of revolution.

The first Air pioneered the Unibody.

The second Air will pioneer something else...
 

blairh

macrumors 603
Dec 11, 2007
5,972
4,472
This has evolved into a great thread.

Quick comment about the MBA being for "managers". I think that's very short sighted. The MBA was (of course) meant to be an ultra-portable when it debuted. I personally feel it has become ancient in due time even within its refreshes because it has such unimpressive battery life. I don't want to get into another back and forth about battery life like we had in my recently closed thread, but lets just state the obvious here: if you are going to tout something as ultra-portable you want it to last a long time on a single charge.

And that is one of the many reasons I expect something special come Wednesday. No, not 12 hours like an iPad, not 10 hours like a 13" MBP, but definitely something beyond what we currently are finding in the base model MBA's.

But it also really goes beyond that. I personally feel Apple should have looked at the explosion of netbooks in the past few years and said "look, people want something small that lasts for a long time, let's give them that in the OS X environment." That never came to fruition. However great the iPad is it still runs on iOS, which simply makes for a different (and compromised IMO) experience. For the past two years I've probably visited my local BB and Microcenter a dozen times testing out different netbooks. I've always wanted something with a smaller footprint than the current MBA that could last on my routine flights from LA to NYC or NYC to Rome. I could never swallow the small trackpads and (more importantly) having to use Windows again. So really I've just been waiting for a smaller MBA all this time. I'm confident I'm not the only Mac user who feels this way.

I think Apple will keep the heavy lifting to the MBP. As Spacekatgal has alluded to I want a super lightweight OS X experience with a full sized keyboard attached. That's what I've wanted for years now. And that's why I'm so excited for Wednesday because I think it's finally coming to us.

One last point: I think Apple is going to give the 11.6" model a bare bones feel to it. We hear the rumors that this model will be "aggressively priced". So I'm expecting a not-so-hot processor, perhaps less ports than the 13.3" model, etc. And I'm fine with that. I'll use my MBP when it comes to doing anything beyond the light stuff at home. Just give me something that I gleefully pack in my carry-on or messenger bag. And for the people that want more in their MBA's, that's potentially where the 13.3" model comes in. More power and size, but at a higher starting price.
 

gianly1985

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2008
798
0
Yeah, the new SSD stick. That's a huge advance that I fully expect to move into other Macs.

Bri

I'd like to see it on MBPs/MBs without losing the HDD bay, so I could buy a 13" MBP with a built-in 128gb SSD stick for OS+apps and put a 1tb/1,5tb (seagate already sells a 1500gb 2,5-incher, although external) HDD in the HDD bay.

An hybrid storage without doing warranty-voiding Optibay tricks.

After all, that's what they're offering on the 27" iMac.
 

Spacekatgal

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 9, 2009
203
0
This has evolved into a great thread.

Quick comment about the MBA being for "managers". I think that's very short sighted. The MBA was (of course) meant to be an ultra-portable when it debuted. I personally feel it has become ancient in due time even within its refreshes because it has such unimpressive battery life. I don't want to get into another back and forth about battery life like we had in my recently closed thread, but lets just state the obvious here: if you are going to tout something as ultra-portable you want it to last a long time on a single charge.

And that is one of the many reasons I expect something special come Wednesday. No, not 12 hours like an iPad, not 10 hours like a 13" MBP, but definitely something beyond what we currently are finding in the base model MBA's.

But it also really goes beyond that. I personally feel Apple should have looked at the explosion of netbooks in the past few years and said "look, people want something small that lasts for a long time, let's give them that in the OS X environment." That never came to fruition. However great the iPad is it still runs on iOS, which simply makes for a different (and compromised IMO) experience. For the past two years I've probably visited my local BB and Microcenter a dozen times testing out different netbooks. I've always wanted something with a smaller footprint than the current MBA that could last on my routine flights from LA to NYC or NYC to Rome. I could never swallow the small trackpads and (more importantly) having to use Windows again. So really I've just been waiting for a smaller MBA all this time. I'm confident I'm not the only Mac user who feels this way.

I think Apple will keep the heavy lifting to the MBP. As Spacekatgal has alluded to I want a super lightweight OS X experience with a full sized keyboard attached. That's what I've wanted for years now. And that's why I'm so excited for Wednesday because I think it's finally coming to us.

One last point: I think Apple is going to give the 11.6" model a bare bones feel to it. We hear the rumors that this model will be "aggressively priced". So I'm expecting a not-so-hot processor, perhaps less ports than the 13.3" model, etc. And I'm fine with that. I'll use my MBP when it comes to doing anything beyond the light stuff at home. Just give me something that I gleefully pack in my carry-on or messenger bag. And for the people that want more in their MBA's, that's potentially where the 13.3" model comes in. More power and size, but at a higher starting price.

I agree. It's a great conversation.

I think you're really right, and I'll expand my original contention to say I think the new MBA should be targeted at exactly the user you're talking about. Netbooks suck. There was a deal on a Dell Mini 9 for $180, and I still didn't want it. I would LOVE to see Apple do away with the white Macbook and make the new Macbook Air the default budget laptop. You are so right that there is a rabid consumer base for it.

I, personally, just want a laptop smaller than my MBP 15 that lasts all day that I can work on. Right now it's the MBP 13, but if they improve the battery enough - I'll be willing to go back to this. It's really going to depend on the details.

Gianly, I think you're going to see something come out with 10.7 that puts the OS on the SSD stick, to make Macs feel quicker - but keeps the rest of the files on a traditional HD. This would really balance the high cost of SSDs with the space benefits of traditional HDs. In the traditional Apple fashion, it will move programs automatically to the SSD stick for you.

Bri
 

thinkdesign

macrumors 6502
May 12, 2010
341
0
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 8.12; MSIEMobile6.0) Sprint T7380)

The "SSD Memory Stick"... does this do anything for performance, over the current type 128 GB SSD in the 2.13 Ghz Rev. C?

Or is the "stick" form just something that saves a little space or a bit of weight?

I haven't seen anything about the capacity of this new SSD memory stick. Has anyone seen any rumor with that info?

And is everything else equivalent between these 2 forms of SSD? Speed, lifespan?
 

HLdan

macrumors 603
Aug 22, 2007
6,383
0
I think this is true, but as I said in my original post I think you're ignoring the other part of the MBA market - girls. I think there's perhaps a little sneering at the girly desire for a machine that is cute, small and portable - but I will be honest. This is the reason I originally bought an MBA. I wanted a laptop I could put in a designer bag and carry.

I think a lot of the MBA market are girls that primarily Facebook, download iTMS content and write papers. This part of the market doesn't understand anything about discrete/integrated GPUs, and just wants it to last longer.

I just don't think Apple will ever find success in their MBA by only targeting managers. There aren't enough of them.

Be careful man, your posts are becoming very chauvinistic. The Air is not a girly machine and it's just your experience that you've seen some women with it. I've only seen men with it and it's usually the business class. I had the Air last year, but sold it because it wasn't for me. I'm not a girl. It's a perfect machine for a the business user that travels a lot. Don't stereotype the Air or the people that use it, you're making ignorant statements.
 

gianly1985

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2008
798
0
The "SSD Memory Stick"... does this do anything for performance, over the current type 128 GB SSD in the 2.13 Ghz Rev. C?
Who knows.

Or is the "stick" form just something that saves a little space or a bit of weight?
Definitely saves space. (not just the disk itself but also how you design the surroundings), so you can use that saved space for battery. (---> more battery life)
Saves a bit of weight.
Maybe saves some money per GB compared to an encased commercially available 1.8" SSD.

I haven't seen anything about the capacity of this new SSD memory stick. Has anyone seen any rumor with that info?
No afaik.
Anyway, I think it's reasonable to expect nothing below 128gb. And nothing above 512gb of course.
128gb for the base model and 256gb for the pricier one could be a good guess.

And is everything else equivalent between these 2 forms of SSD? Speed, lifespan?

Who knows.
 

Dr Kevorkian94

macrumors 68020
Jun 9, 2009
2,176
81
SI, NY
i wonder if they will do anything on software it would be nice to see what they have been coming up with. but as for the actual macs they are probably doing a lot, its oooodles of excitement.
 

mac jones

macrumors 68040
Apr 6, 2006
3,257
2
I actually like my Nook better than my iPad as an ereader of books. However, a magazine would look much nicer on an iPad. I find the iPad exceptional as a content consumption too... but other than that I cannot pick it up. The display is beautiful for movies, but paying for every bit of content is pricey too.

I use my MBA as a real business tool. I thought I would enjoy the iPad for some of those tasks like maybe email or Internet browsing, but I have been disappointed with the iPad from day one for those types of uses. The bottom line is my iPhone fits in my pocket while the iPad is much more cumbersome to carry around. If I am going to do input, via a keyboard, the iPad is terribly slow typing on the touch screen, and I don't want to carry an extra bluetooth keyboard around... so the MBA wins their too.

I just love the MBA and the iPhone so much that I don't feel I need a third device. I really enjoy both more than any other products or services I buy or use on a daily basis. The MBA is shear perfection, and the iPhone fits in my pocket... between the two, I have everything covered.

But you do have a third device, the Nook.
But the nook is much less intrusive.
 

FuNGi

macrumors 65816
Feb 26, 2010
1,122
33
California
I agree. It's a great conversation.

I think you're really right, and I'll expand my original contention to say I think the new MBA should be targeted at exactly the user you're talking about. Netbooks suck. There was a deal on a Dell Mini 9 for $180, and I still didn't want it. I would LOVE to see Apple do away with the white Macbook and make the new Macbook Air the default budget laptop. You are so right that there is a rabid consumer base for it.

I, personally, just want a laptop smaller than my MBP 15 that lasts all day that I can work on. Right now it's the MBP 13, but if they improve the battery enough - I'll be willing to go back to this. It's really going to depend on the details.
-snip-

Bri

Agreed. I too feel that they should reposition their line-up and have the macbook Air's move into the entry level position for the "non power", "executive", "girl";), or "2nd machine" users. Do away with the macbook. Reposition the 13"MBP with core i tech in the next round. I would buy one for traveling and light work as I go back and forth from south america to the US and am working on papers or figures that only occasionally require photo editing etc.

I currently have no needs for a faster processor but could do with a bit more battery and a less weight than my original unibody 15" MBP with the replaceable battery compartment. I expect Apple will be maximizing every square millimeter in this next round to put some customized battery arrays in. I also expect the soon-to-be standard SSD to sip the battery. This should next move into the 15" high end MBP models as dual drive options.

sorry for the two posts...
This has evolved into a great thread.
-snip-

But it also really goes beyond that. I personally feel Apple should have looked at the explosion of netbooks in the past few years and said "look, people want something small that lasts for a long time, let's give them that in the OS X environment." That never came to fruition. However great the iPad is it still runs on iOS, which simply makes for a different (and compromised IMO) experience. For the past two years I've probably visited my local BB and Microcenter a dozen times testing out different netbooks. I've always wanted something with a smaller footprint than the current MBA that could last on my routine flights from LA to NYC or NYC to Rome. I could never swallow the small trackpads and (more importantly) having to use Windows again. So really I've just been waiting for a smaller MBA all this time. I'm confident I'm not the only Mac user who feels this way.

I think Apple has been looking at this market for quite a long time - like they have with the precursors of the ipad. Just because Jobs says they aren't interested in making crappy netbooks doesn't mean they haven't "toyed" with the idea in the labs. One of things I like about Apple as a company is what I perceive as product patience. Yes there was a tablet and netbook market years ago but Apple & Jobs demanded a certain level of performance that the underlying tech could not yet deliver at prices anyone could afford. One of these fundamental limitations has and will be battery technology (Oops, not supposed to refer back to this:eek:). Another is affordable, high res, and reliably backlit screens. And, of course, another is cool temp. - high performance processors. A4 was Apples answer in the tablet and now iphone models. Eventually AMD's in the Airs, but probably not this Weds.
 

CaoCao

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2010
783
2
The last time Apple held a Mac event (commanded Holidays like WWDC and MWSF don't count) the Unibody technology was unveiled...

http://movies.apple.com/datapub/us/podcasts/apple_keynotes/sj-keynote-20081014.m4v

After that, even (relatively) major desktop Macs revisions (new all metal unibody casing for iMacs! IPS displays all accross the line-up! humongous 60%+ resolution on the big iMac! new all-metal unibody MacMini!) didn't manage to deserve an EVENT.

If they're holding an event, I expect some kind of revolution.

The first Air pioneered the Unibody.

The second Air will pioneer something else...

Perfect test case for Liquidmetal
 

gianly1985

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2008
798
0
Perfect test case for Liquidmetal

I thought about it too....but maybe it's too early....Apple bought Liquidmetal IP only 3 months ago..

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1141240/000110465910042867/a10-15357_18k.htm

On August 5, 2010, Liquidmetal Technologies, Inc., a Delaware corporation (“Liquidmetal”), entered into a Master Transaction Agreement with Apple Inc., a California corporation (“Apple”), pursuant to which (i) Liquidmetal contributed substantially all of its intellectual property assets to a newly organized special-purpose, wholly-owned subsidiary (the “IP Company”), (ii) the IP Company granted to Apple a perpetual, worldwide, fully-paid, exclusive license to commercialize such intellectual property in the field of consumer electronic products in exchange for a license fee, and (iii) the IP Company granted back to Liquidmetal a perpetual, worldwide, fully-paid, exclusive license to commercialize such intellectual property in all other fields of use (together with all ancillary agreements, the “Master Transaction Agreement”).
 

thinkdesign

macrumors 6502
May 12, 2010
341
0
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 8.12; MSIEMobile6.0) Sprint T7380)

256 GB for the bigger version of an "SSD memory stick" would be of great interest to me.... for me, where the Air or post-Air crosses over a key line into viability. More than any of the other changes people guess at or mention wanting on this forum... with bigger RAM being my priority #2, and a durable hinge that opens to the normal angle being a close 3rd. (Now, how soon can we persuade Consumer Reports mag. to put the new Air models on a testing machine, to do an accelerated test on the durability of these new or not-so-new-type hinges?)

That 256 GB SSD stick version or any other version, will grab my attention... esp. if they don't overreach on pricing it.
 

Jaro65

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2009
3,830
943
Seattle, WA
what they actually complain about is RAM, because they want to run Windows virtually as they need an app or two that is only available on a PC. They also complain about drive space, because amazingly they want to install two OSes on their MBA for the exact same reason I just mentioned. After that, they want the glass trackpads and higher resolution displays.

Coincidentally, this is precisely what I need and want. Crossing my fingers for the next week's announcement.
 

barefeats

macrumors 65816
Jul 6, 2000
1,058
19
I vote for revolution.

I want a "hybrid" MBA with touch screen that runs iOS and OS X apps.
 

Mr. Savage

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2010
248
0
Toronto
I thought about it too....but maybe it's too early....Apple bought Liquidmetal IP only 3 months ago..
[/url]

True but, it's entirely possible that they'd (Apple) been quietly working with the company on something for a period of time beforehand and were so impressed with the results and potential that they just went ahead and gobbled it up. Wise business move and very Apple-like.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 8.12; MSIEMobile6.0) Sprint T7380)

and a durable hinge that opens to the normal angle being a close 3rd. (Now, how soon can we persuade Consumer Reports mag. to put the new Air models on a testing machine, to do an accelerated test on the durability of these new or not-so-new-type hinges?)

thinkdesign, I'm in total agreement with you on the hinge issue. It's actually even higher on my list of concerns. I'm very surprised that more people don't (or didn't) find that more of an issue.

I think it's safe to say, though, that the issue will be fully resolved with the new Air. I don't think they'll make that mistake twice: 2 or even 3 free screen assemblies per MBA must've gotten awfully expensive.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 8.12; MSIEMobile6.0) Sprint T7380)

and a durable hinge that opens to the normal angle being a close 3rd. (Now, how soon can we persuade Consumer Reports mag. to put the new Air models on a testing machine, to do an accelerated test on the durability of these new or not-so-new-type hinges?)

thinkdesign, I'm in total agreement with you on the hinge issue. It's actually even higher on my list of concerns. I'm very surprised that more people don't (or didn't) find that more of an issue.

I think it's safe to say, though, that the issue will be fully resolved with the new Air. I don't think they'll make that mistake twice: 2 or 3 screen assemblies per MBA must've gotten awfully expensive.
 

Spacekatgal

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 9, 2009
203
0
True but, it's entirely possible that they'd (Apple) been quietly working with the company on something for a period of time beforehand and were so impressed with the results and potential that they just went ahead and gobbled it up. Wise business move and very Apple-like.



thinkdesign, I'm in total agreement with you on the hinge issue. It's actually even higher on my list of concerns. I'm very surprised that more people don't (or didn't) find that more of an issue.

I think it's safe to say, though, that the issue will be fully resolved with the new Air. I don't think they'll make that mistake twice: 2 or even 3 free screen assemblies per MBA must've gotten awfully expensive.

Well, did you guys see the CoM story where they showed how Apple was already using LiquidMetal? It was in the Sim card removal tool in some 3GSs. I don't think it's infeasable. That said, why would you want a whole computer made of a glorified, shatterable glass? I want to see it used, but not just for a change in aesthetics.

I also strongly agree about addressing the hinge issue.

Bri
 

CaoCao

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2010
783
2
Well, did you guys see the CoM story where they showed how Apple was already using LiquidMetal? It was in the Sim card removal tool in some 3GSs. I don't think it's infeasable. That said, why would you want a whole computer made of a glorified, shatterable glass? I want to see it used, but not just for a change in aesthetics.

I also strongly agree about addressing the hinge issue.

Bri
Why do you think it is a glorified glass?
LiquidMetal allows a stronger case for same weight or (more Apple like) same strength for less weight.
 

soph

macrumors regular
May 3, 2010
102
0
Be careful man, your posts are becoming very chauvinistic. The Air is not a girly machine and it's just your experience that you've seen some women with it. I've only seen men with it and it's usually the business class. I had the Air last year, but sold it because it wasn't for me. I'm not a girl. It's a perfect machine for a the business user that travels a lot. Don't stereotype the Air or the people that use it, you're making ignorant statements.

Spacekatgal is a girl. Doesn't mean she can't be chauvinistic, but at least your "man" is somewhat off.

However, I don't agree with her. So far I've only seen MBAs with males who cherish good industrial design. The same kind of people who like sports cars (as opposed to muscle cars). Girls who mainly do facebook have pink netbooks with Hello Kitty stickers.

That's chauvinistic, mea culpa.
 

cprich

macrumors newbie
Oct 13, 2010
5
0
Just to clarify, when I mention managers, I think this is the number one targeted demo. It does not, however, mean it's the only demo, hence the tradeoffs in other elements in the design. And I certainly didn't mean to imply in any way that girls were not a target demo - they absolutely have to be. First in all the managers and secondly, girls are students too, obviously. ;)

What I disagree with here is a direct targeting of "girls" specifically - and by this I think you mean the younger women who want a 'sexy' form factor. While I will believe this particular demo has been considered, I think it's been moulded into a slightly bigger category: 'girls' and metrosexuals. By this, I mean the urban hip, elite young men and women both on campus or starting out their new careers. They want and need a fully functional computer which is at the same time portable and, let's say, chic.

I've been wondering about potential 'revolutionary' aspects that could be brought to the table, and I feel there's only one which would be an instant draw for a very large percentage of the population. Instant On.

Makes sense, too, given the new memory configurations we're seeing here. An onboard SSD that quick-boots to a small and highly functional OSX. This would hit everyone's sweet spot; the manager who wants access immediately before a meeting, and the student who needs to access her essay at the communal printing station where there's a line. (And what college isn't made up of lines?) :D

No matter how slightly underpowered the MBA is in other aspects, an 'instant-on' feature automatically makes it the most immediately useful computer short of the iPad. In fact, isn't Instant-On that holy grail of computer usefulness that's been wanting in computers for a generation?

This, along with a humble battery bump and a couple of smaller surprises under the hood are, IMHO, what the populace could be seeing.
 

BobbyCarbn

macrumors regular
Jun 21, 2009
155
0
I just cant wait for the DYI threads to start: "How do I remove the built in SSD Memory Chips and solder new ones on?" :D
 
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