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Downloading or Buying OSX 10.5

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PowerPcboi

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 21, 2020
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I have a older Powerbook g4 but I have come across a odd problem. I want to sell this computer but the HDD died. Now that I purchased a new one, the computer has no OS. From my understanding obtaining a older version of macOS would be tricky, because it is not longer for sale, but also still copyrighted. What is the best way to go about this to avoid legal troubles?

Thanks for any help, I know you can not direct me anywhere because of Forum rules but any other information would be great.
 
If you're looking for 10.5 (Leopard), the best place would be eBay. There are legal DVD copies of Leopard to be had there. Make sure you buy the retail version not the hardware specific version. If you do find a copy on eBay, I can tell you that it will likely be expensive.

Your older Powerbook G4 may also be able to run Tiger (10.4). You can also find that on eBay.
 
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In my opinion (which is definitely not legal advice) if you are installing the same version of OS that the system shipped with then you should be fine. I say this because the system was originally licensed for that version of the OS and remains so.
 
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Amethyst1 said:
No PowerBook G4 ever shipped with Leopard. IANAL.
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Which is why I said "...you are installing the same version of OS that the system shipped with..." I know he's inquiring about Leopard however I was referring to whatever OS a system shipped with. I guess I should have been more specific by stating I think he should install that version of the OS instead of Leopard.
 
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Amethyst1 said:
Rhetorical question: Does Apple even care about "ancient" versions of OS X for PowerPC anymore? IANAL.
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In fact, they do.. I asked tech support one day if they might have some extra Tiger and PowerBook discs for my PowerBook G4 and they told me no, then I asked them if tiger is considered abandonware and can be downloaded, they told me they still consider it theirs and I would need to buy it and not copy it. So, based on that alone - they still care as it’s copyrighted. Asked the same about Os 9 for the source code - they told me it’s copyrighted and not allowed to be distributed, so yes they DO care.
 
I appreciate all the help. The replies are very mixed. Since I d o not want to take a chance I will just go to eBay like @chscag said. I do not want to tangle with copyright, mainly since I am selling the laptop.
 
PowerPcboi said:
I appreciate all the help. The replies are very mixed. Since I d o not want to take a chance I will just go to eBay like @chscag said. I do not want to tangle with copyright, mainly since I am selling the laptop.
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I mean you can definitely spend the $30 on a disk that may not even work on your system, or even work at all, but you're really not taking any risks going with the other option. This subforum would be dead without abandonware sites.
 
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Leopard on eBay still demands a high price, however 3 yes ago I got lucky and got it new in the box for 30 dollars.
 
PowerPcboi said:
I appreciate all the help. The replies are very mixed. Since I d o not want to take a chance I will just go to eBay like @chscag said. I do not want to tangle with copyright, mainly since I am selling the laptop.
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Seconding @repairedCheese here: embrace the joys of abandonware.

But if you want to err to the side of caution without forking over cash for used DVD data discs, use Everymac.com’s original specs for your specific model PowerBook to determine a) which OS X version was shipped with the PowerBook, and b) turning to Archive.org’s software archives and/or the Macintoshgarden.org’s archives to find, if available, copies of the OEM install and restore DVDs which would have shipped with that specific PowerBook.

To do this properly, though, it may require you to do some sleuthing on the Apple part numbers for the specific OEM install DVDs which originally shipped with your PowerBook (and whose Apple part numbers might look something like “663-1234” or similar). Finding those OEM DVDs on places like CL or eBay are going to be a very hit or miss affair — more than likely, the latter.

EDIT to add: in the end, you just want to get the system up and running before selling it. This is where turning to abandonware will help to speed things up and create less of an urge to set aside the computer out of frustration.
 
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PowerPcboi said:
I do not want to tangle with copyright, mainly since I am selling the laptop.
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Each to their own but this really seems like a fret about nothing. What tangles with copyright or legal issues would realistically be posed here? Apple are hardly going to seek your arrest because you've reinstalled a long superseded operating system that they haven't provided for sale in years onto a long discontinued computer. They're not going to know about it and they wouldn't even care in the first place.

repairedCheese said:
I mean you can definitely spend the $30 on a disk that may not even work on your system, or even work at all, but you're really not taking any risks going with the other option. This subforum would be dead without abandonware sites.
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Totally agree. I wanted to restore Snow Leopard to my MBA and this would not have been possible without an archive link and a bit of fiddling because the computer requires a specific version which is unavailable via Internet Recovery and hasn't even been uploaded to the Garden.
 
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Amethyst1 said:
Rhetorical question: Does Apple even care about "ancient" versions of OS X for PowerPC anymore? IANAL.
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I think the real question is "will Apple do anything about it?"

The line between Apple caring or not caring is still set at OS 7.5.5 and below, which is in the public domain. OS 7.6 and above is not.
 
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I already stated that when I called Apple this evening they stated to me even though PowerPC and older OS X and Mac OS 9 are no longer relavent, they still are copyrighted as I asked if the OS 9 source was in public domain.. they stated to me no.
 
repairedCheese said:
There is a massive difference between them "caring", and them lifting a finger to stop sites sharing software that are for hardware they don't sell or support.

You care more about your Powerbook than they do, I promise.
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Is that a bad thing to care about ones computer ? Yes, I do care.. but when I inquired about older versions of OS X as well as OS 9, they told me those are still copyrighted.. nevertheless, while they couldn’t care less about my systems, I do.
 
Macbookprodude said:
so Apple does still care
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As @repairedCheese has pointed out to you, Apple does not care enough to have cease and desist letters and DMCA takedowns issued against sites of whose existence they're almost certainly well aware, which are hosting copies of software they haven't made commercially available in years and will not sell to you as an ordinary consumer if you contact them and request the opportunity to purchase them - which is a service that a trillion dollar computer company could provide very easily if they actually wanted to.

Yes, they remain copyrighted but it doesn't mean that Apple are going to be overly concerned, within reason about the distribution of software that involves a niche field. For them to be truly concerned to the point of aggressive litigation is unlikely given that they've made every single operating system from Mavericks onwards available to Mac users for completely free.
 
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Macbookprodude said:
Is that a bad thing to care about ones computer ? Yes, I do care.. but when I inquired about older versions of OS X as well as OS 9, they told me those are still copyrighted.. nevertheless, while they couldn’t care less about my systems, I do.
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Being under copyright and non-public domain does not preclude them from ignoring casual copying. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

IMO the only time Apple would care about enforcing their copyright would be if someone began to sell these older versions of their OS.
 
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m1mavrerick said:
Being under copyright and non-public domain does not preclude them from ignoring casual copying. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

IMO the only time Apple would care about enforcing their copyright would be if someone began to sell these older versions of their OS.
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My guess is if it's free they don't really care because they don't sell it anymore and they won't make any money no matter how you get it. NAL though so who knows.
 
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AL1630 said:
My guess is if it's free they don't really care because they don't sell it anymore and they won't make any money no matter how you get it. NAL though so who knows.
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Copyright does not have the requirement that the copywritten item cannot be freely distributed. Copyright permits the copyright holder the right to set the terms of distribution, if any, for the copywritten item.

There are many examples of copywritten works which are available at no charge. Open source is essentially built on this idea and Apple has been distributing their copywritten operating systems for years. Doing so does not negate that the works are subject to copyright nor does it limit their ability to set other restrictions for obtaining the product. For example a lot of software is free and can be redistributed to others for no fee. However the terms may, and often do, preclude obtaining compensation for that distribution. Other terms which may exist for software which is free is that it cannot be modified or that it can only be used on certain equipment (i.e. Apple branded hardware).

IMO I don't think that Apple really cares if older versions of OS X are being given away. They may even be, unofficially, allowing free redistribution (much like they have their current versions). However if someone were to start selling copies then I think the cease and desist letters would start.

None of this is to say go ahead and do it, as always I am qualifying it as IANAL opinion.
 
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Macbookprodude said:
In fact, they do.. I asked tech support one day if they might have some extra Tiger and PowerBook discs for my PowerBook G4 and they told me no, then I asked them if tiger is considered abandonware and can be downloaded, they told me they still consider it theirs and I would need to buy it and not copy it. So, based on that alone - they still care as it’s copyrighted. Asked the same about Os 9 for the source code - they told me it’s copyrighted and not allowed to be distributed, so yes they DO care.
Click to expand...

Macbookprodude said:
I already stated that when I called Apple this evening they stated to me even though PowerPC and older OS X and Mac OS 9 are no longer relavent, they still are copyrighted as I asked if the OS 9 source was in public domain.. they stated to me no.
Click to expand...

Macbookprodude said:
so Apple does still care
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Clearly they do not care. Of course any of their reps will tell you no, they work for them and probably don’t even know what “abandonware” is. They more than likely aren’t allowed to even give support for a PowerPC era machine (if the rep even knows what one is). You calling them was more than likely a waste of your and their time.

If Apple cared they would have put a stop to it a long time ago. They lose zero money from people downloading these old versions because they don’t sell it. If you read the fine print you’re not supposed to sell it on eBay either as it’s basically the same thing. If you sell it they’re not making anything from it so it’s moot.


All of this said, OP this is a very frequently asked question and can be found with literally a 5 second search. I suggest that the Macintosh garden links be added into this thread to deter future posts like this (and hopefully from further discussions of the legality of such matters).
 
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