DSLR or Mirrorless?

[Ubele]

I sense the same snooty attitude on both dpreview as I do at high end camera stores. The NEX is a fabulous camera system, same sensor as some Nikon cameras.

The only thing they're not as good at is super fast accurate focusing e.g sports, this is where having a dedicated phase sensor excels. IMHO this gap will vanish as sensor technology improves.

What a lot of snooty posters do is pick whatever capability a camera is weakest at (and no camera is perfect at everything) and use it as a reason why that camera is a piece of crap and you shouldn't buy it. (Naturally, they own a different camera.) On the one hand, if your primary interest is high-speed sports photography, then you should read the reviews and see which cameras are best for that. The same is true if your primary interest is taking hand-held shots in low light at high ISOs, and you want as little noise as possible. But for most of us hobbyists who like to shoot a lot of different types of subjects, most of the major brands and models are more than good enough. One snooty attitude I get tired of is, "Camera X is okay, and it probably could take 99% of the shots you want to take, but you're going to regret not getting those other 1%, so you're foolish if you don't spend the extra $1,000 for Camera Y."

 

[themumu]

I'm surprised no one seems to mention trying a few cameras out to figure out what you like. The trouble with sites like dpreview is that they focus on technical aspects of gear, and nowadays pretty much all modern digital cameras are very good from technical point of view. A lot of differences will come from ergonomics, and it's something you cannot judge objectively, since it depends on how you will actually use the camera, how comfortably it fits in your hands (big man paws vs. tiny lady hands ).

I used to read kenrockwell's site too, but then his greatest advice sunk in and I stopped. The advice was, don't listen to advice of people whose pictures suck in your opinion. I think his shots are more miss than hit, so I now I try to find people whose work I really like, and then try to figure out what helps them achieve the specific look that appeals to me. Often times it's not the specific camera they use, but rather a particular combination of settings (like, shoot landscapes with a tiny aperture and offset the longer exposure with a tripod - gets that awesome sharp look across both foreground and background - figured it out after studying EXIF info of Phrasikleia's photos, though that's just one of a myriad of aspects than make those photos work).

So if I were in your shoes picking a camera now, I would go to my local camera shop that offers a minimum 2 week return period, grab a camera that I suspect might work and try it out for at least a week. Rinse and repeat until you find a winner. I doubt technical IQ will be the main reason to pick one camera over another.

 

[Ubele]

Also remember that, as a newbie, you're going to spend a lot of time learning (and learning never stops). If, a year or two down the line, you decide you've outgrown your current camera or otherwise think you should have bought something else, it's no big deal: sell it and buy another one. Just make sure you haven't invested in a lot of lenses and other accessories on which you'll take a financial hit if you sell them. I used to have a habit of overbuying techie gear (primarily musical equipment), and I wasted thousands of dollars on features I never used before the gear became obsolete.

One good strategy is to buy a mid-range camera body in a manufacturer's series (or even a low-end model, if you're strapped for cash), and start buying lenses for it if you decide you like it. When you outgrow it, you can buy a higher-end body in the series, and your lenses will work with it.

 

[MacRy]

That isn't true for all mirrorless cameras. The Sony NEX 6 and NEX 7 and also the Olympus OMD cameras (and possibly others) have high-resolution electronic viewfinders in addition to LCD screens. The NEX 3 and NEX 5 do not, although it's an option for the NEX 5 (but if you want it, you might as well buy an NEX 6). On the negative side, the image doesn't look quite as realistic as an optical viewfinder. On the positive side, an EVF lets you see the image with all settings applied, in real time. It also overlays information about the settings. This is where personal preference comes in. Some people prefer an OVF, and some prefer an EVF. I grew up with OVFs, but I'm quite happy with the EVF on my NEX 6. I love being able to page through the settings (such as exposure or aperture) and see how the shot is going to look before I take it.

True and the Fuji X100/S and X-Pro1 have the best of both worlds with OVF and EVF.

I throw my hat in as another mirrorless user. I've had an Olympus EPL1, a Panasonic GF1 and now own a Fuji X100 and I couldn't be tempted away from mirrorless after having sampled those sweet little cameras. I have a Pentax K100D gathering dust in a cupboard that hasn't seen the light of day in well over a year. For me it was about having a camera that I'm willing to take out and shoot with, not leave at home because of the weight and bulk. If mirrorless cameras weren't available I don't think I'd be taking photographs seriously now.

I hope that helps and I'll also add that the main reason for going down the Fuji route was because I couldn't live with not having some kind of viewfinder. It just doesn't seem right to be holding a manual control camera at arms length like a camera phone to me. You might want to consider that.

 

[burne]

sell it and buy another one.

Good advice, but I have an additional point:

It helps if you start by buying a second hand camera. You can buy something like a Canon Rebel from last year for not a lot of money, and sell it in a year for slightly less money. The price of owning that camera is the difference between what you pay and what you get. It's a lot like cars. The first owner pays the most in terms of depreciation. Being second or third doesn't matter much from the viewpoint of performance, but financially it makes much more sense.

I own an α A700 and an α A77. If you feel you have the time, compare the specs and the conclusions. 4 years development sounds like a lot. 12 versus 24 megapixels sounds like a huge difference. OVF versus DVF? Must be a world of difference. But: No.

The point is: As a semi-professional photographer I'm equally happy to go on a paid job with either one, unless I need the extreme speed or sharpness of the A77. I'm as happy with the flapping mirror of 2007 as I'm with the translucent mirror of 2011. And when I want something small I grab the NEX7.

These days gear is good enough to be able to wing it with 'last years model'. You are not hurting the quality of the holiday pictures by buying a 2007 DLSR.

Do NOT spend a lot of money on gear unless you know from experience what the money will buy you.

 

[MacRy]

Good advice, but I have an additional point:



It helps if you start by buying a second hand camera. You can buy something like a Canon Rebel from last year for not a lot of money, and sell it in a year for slightly less money. The price of owning that camera is the difference between what you pay and what you get. It's a lot like cars. The first owner pays the most in terms of depreciation. Being second or third doesn't matter much from the viewpoint of performance, but financially it makes much more sense.



I own an α A700 and an α A77. If you feel you have the time, compare the specs and the conclusions. 4 years development sounds like a lot. 12 versus 24 megapixels sounds like a huge difference. OVF versus DVF? Must be a world of difference. But: No.



The point is: As a semi-professional photographer I'm equally happy to go on a paid job with either one, unless I need the extreme speed or sharpness of the A77. I'm as happy with the flapping mirror of 2007 as I'm with the translucent mirror of 2011. And when I want something small I grab the NEX7.



These days gear is good enough to be able to wing it with 'last years model'. You are not hurting the quality of the holiday pictures by buying a 2007 DLSR.



Do NOT spend a lot of money on gear unless you know from experience what the money will buy you.

That's great advice!

I'm more than happy to be a year or two behind the latest and greatest when it comes to cameras. My X100 cost me £375 used with a load of extra bits thrown in that the original owner had bought for it. That would have cost me well over a grand originally and had I not enjoyed the camera I would have been gutted to have paid full whack for it. As it turns out, I love it and now I've got a fantastic camera that still pumps out images that are useable by professionals today.

My GF1 was also a used bargain and that got me hooked on photography but also proved that I couldn't live without a viewfinder. A lesson that could have been a lot more expensive for me.

 

[MrGIS]

I'm looking to get my first real camera. Photography is new to me but it's something I always wanted to explore. I picked up a new macbook pro today (13" 2.6) to replace my 15" 2010. I figured this would be plenty good to run Aperture or Lightroom. I'll be getting a monitor to hook up to.

Now I need to figure out the camera. I'm intrigued by mirrorless cameras because I like how small they are and I'm attracted to new tech. I was thinking of something like a Canon Eos M, or a Nikon 1 J4 (I know it's not out yet but I expect it to be released at CES.)

Or am I going to get better performance with a DSLR? I was thinking Nikon D5300. I think I'm going to want to experiment with shooting 1080p video too with whatever camera I choose and using Final Cut Pro.

I recently moved to a mirror-less after the better part of 20 years being a canon slr/dslr guy. For some time I had been looking at a smaller camera that offered excellent performance, but was routinely put off by the really tiny grips. Finally Panasonic released the GX7 and the small all-in-one I was looking for was finally here, and it fit my hands. The camera is fantastic and because Panasonic and Olympus jointly went in on the micro 4/3 system, there are lots of lenses to pick from. I say go for micro 4/3 mirror-less. Good luck!

 

[guzhogi]

You may want to look into Sony's Alpha line of SLT cameras. I've used the A65 & A99 and both have pretty fast continuous shooting options (10+ fps). I know they're not as small as mirror less, but for sports, that speed comes in handy.

 

[Chevelle]

Panasonic unveiled the 2014 GX7 today so that looks like it could be a choice. Waiting to see what everyone else unveils first though.

 

[Razeus]

Mirrorless is the way to go, and where I have gone.

Of course if you like to shoot birds, sports/action, mirrorless is not ready for that yet. For portraits, landscapes, streets, it's all you need.

 

[nitromac]

Both

 

[blueroom]

Mirrorless is the future.
Watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW9alBidf3w

 

[iancheyne]

Both

 

[egis]

I like reading kenrockwell.com
Is way more clear, and without all this non-sense test shots.

I like Ken Rockwell as well. It is one of several go-to sites I look at for anything dealing with my camera system. Lately I too have become more interested in mirrorless. I just found a site for a photographer that is a bit a head of me on the path. He is a Canon guy but has moved to Olympus. I recommend his blog discussions on the OP question. He covers the issue from many good points of view. He like Ken Rockwell communicates in a well understandable fashion...Good shooting!!

http://blog.atmtxphoto.com/

 

[MacCruiskeen]

I'm surprised no one seems to mention trying a few cameras out to figure out what you like.

Because the good, well-stocked photo store that will let you handle the gear before you buy is very nearly a thing of the past. I'd guess most people don't want the hassle of buying thing, trying it for a while, sending it back, trying the next thing, etc.

 

[Warawara]

The best camera is the one you have in your hand. If you are not going to keep a DSLR with you because it is to much work then spending $500 or $5000 isn't going to get you the image.
If you are more likely to have a mirror less camera with you then that is a better camera.
Heck, a Smart Phone may be the best answer.
A quick review of the posts, I could not find what the OP wants to photograph. That in many ways might influence my decision. I put up with a bulky DSLR for everyday shots because my greatest enjoyment comes with photographing nature. Shutter lag is not an option. It may get better with ML cameras but they are not there yet.
Thom Hogan is also a good resource along with the others mentioned above.

 

[jjk454ss]

Mirrorless is the future.
Watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW9alBidf3w

I'm no photographer, I'm like those folks in the video with the camera on Auto all the time. But I had the first NEX3 and I liked it. I sold it because I wanted the money for other toys, I had the 16mm lens, 18-55mm lens, and the 55-200mm lens for it. What I didn't like was the lenses were so pricey because the IS was in the lens. I picked up a refurb D3200 and while I like it, I miss the size of the NEX3.

Lucky for me though, Amazon has the NEX-3NL for $280 today, so I'm now going back to the NEX.

 

[blueroom]

I'm no photographer, I'm like those folks in the video with the camera on Auto all the time. But I had the first NEX3 and I liked it. I sold it because I wanted the money for other toys, I had the 16mm lens, 18-55mm lens, and the 55-200mm lens for it. What I didn't like was the lenses were so pricey because the IS was in the lens. I picked up a refurb D3200 and while I like it, I miss the size of the NEX3.

Lucky for me though, Amazon has the NEX-3NL for $280 today, so I'm now going back to the NEX.

Me neither, I'm a photography enthusiast. I switched from a Canon DSLR as I just hated the bulk to a NEX-5N (recently updated to a NEX-6). My wife used a NEX C3 and upgrade to a Sony RX100mk2 as it suited her shooting style (always auto or the fun creative modes).

The NEX-3NL is a fabulous camera, it's been paired down but is equal in image quality to cameras many times its price.

 

[jjk454ss]

Me neither, I'm a photography enthusiast. I switched from a Canon DSLR as I just hated the bulk to a NEX-5N (recently updated to a NEX-6). My wife used a NEX C3 and upgrade to a Sony RX100mk2 as it suited her shooting style (always auto or the fun creative modes).

The NEX-3NL is a fabulous camera, it's been paired down but is equal in image quality to cameras many times its price.

Yeah, I go on long hikes and often wish I had my camera. But because of the size I almost never take it. The NEX will fit in a large pocket so I know I'll get way more use out of it.

 

[blueroom]

Yeah, I go on long hikes and often wish I had my camera. But because of the size I almost never take it. The NEX will fit in a large pocket so I know I'll get way more use out of it.

I got the NEX 6 mostly for the 16-50 pancake.

PS try running your NEX photos through DXO Optics. A real eye opener (yes they have a trial version).

 

[jjk454ss]

I got the NEX 6 mostly for the 16-50 pancake.

PS try running your NEX photos through DXO Optics. A real eye opener (yes they have a trial version).

I'll check out the DXO Optics, thanks.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I'll check out the DXO Optics, thanks.

Make sure to click through the advanced options. Hector Martinez did a talk at our camera club. Check out his videos on line for tips. Here's one to get you started. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OWUfmZhOu6Y&desktop_uri=/watch?v=OWUfmZhOu6Y

 

[LethalWolfe]

Yeah, I go on long hikes and often wish I had my camera. But because of the size I almost never take it. The NEX will fit in a large pocket so I know I'll get way more use out of it.

I'm starting to get back into photography as a hobby and I love the form factor and lightness of the NEX line. I do a lot of hiking and cycling it's very easy to carry the camera (and even a second lens) out in the wilderness. I was originally a bit weary of not going with a more established camera system from Canon or Nikon (or even Panasonic) but I'm very happy I went mirrorless and I'm starting to expand my lens collection.

 

[jjk454ss]

Make sure to click through the advanced options. Hector Martinez did a talk at our camera club. Check out his videos on line for tips. Here's one to get you started. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OWUfmZhOu6Y&desktop_uri=/watch?v=OWUfmZhOu6Y

Thanks for the link, I will check it out.

I'm starting to get back into photography as a hobby and I love the form factor and lightness of the NEX line. I do a lot of hiking and cycling it's very easy to carry the camera (and even a second lens) out in the wilderness. I was originally a bit weary of not going with a more established camera system from Canon or Nikon (or even Panasonic) but I'm very happy I went mirrorless and I'm starting to expand my lens collection.

Yeah, when in got my first NEX. Worried about the same thing. But I'm really looking forward to having one again.

 

[EmaDaCuz]

NEX are great cameras, I have the original NEX-3 and the image quality is awesome for the price. The only letdown is the absence of a viewfinder, either optical or electronic... composing on the LCD is, most of the time, a pain in the arse.
But portability and sturdiness are unbeatable.