Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
Yeah I found both of those on Amazon, and they look way too big. Guess I'll keep looking or see what other opinions I can get on the matter.

EDIT - Read the reviews of the Tripp Lite, looks pretty bad. I'm not spending any money on something that'll fail like that in a month.
 
Last edited:
You're looking for a power conditioner (used in hospitals etc) not an uninterruptible power supply. http://www.tripplite.com/products/power-conditioners~23

Only reason I know is because some of my audio equipment was killed by power surges, so after seeing the repair bill picking up a used line conditioner on ebay was a no brainer.

  • Ideal for computers, routers, modems and home theater components
  • Corrects under- and overvoltages in 87V–140V range
  • Protects against spikes with 720 joules of surge suppression
 
Last edited:
Guess I'll keep looking or see what other opinions I can get on the matter.
Step back a minute. If any recommendation comes without numbers, then ignore it. For example, voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dime to 40% intensity. Even that is good voltage for any computer. How many advertisers will say that? None. Most only posted what advertising says; not what engineering and specification numbers say. Best is to ignore recommendations that are subjective.

Power supplies must be so robust as to convert massive AC voltage changes into rock sold, clean, low DC voltages that vary as little as 2%. So what does a UPS do for hardware? Only what is already done inside a computer. UPS is temporary and 'dirty' voltage so that unsaved data can be saved.

But if I can increase profits by hyping fears of sags, then I too would be saying something completely different.

No major appliance should cause dimming even on 1930 wiring. In most cases, that dimming is due to a loose screw holding a wire, receptacles connected using the back stab method, or wire nuts applies without first twisting copper wires together. In rare cases, that dimming indicates an impending human safety problem. But at no time does dimming create a threat to any electronics appliance.

Dimming is irrelevant to electronics. But low voltage is problematic to motorized appliances. If low voltage concerns you, then UPS should be on a dishwasher, refrigerator, and furnace.

If lights are dim are on a completely different circuit from a Dyson, then be more concerned for a potential human safety issue probably anywhere between a main breaker box and street transformer.

Read numbers on any surge protector's box. A let-through voltage of 330 means that protector ignores everything until 120 volts well exceeds 330 volts. How often is your AC voltage increasing that much?

Duke Energy demonstrates how 'dirty' a UPS voltage can be in figures 1 and 2. Clean AC mains voltage is not left. What the UPS outputs when switched to battery in on right. That UPS voltage is dirtier. Potentially harmful to some motorized appliances. And perfectly ideal for all electronics:
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-03.asp

If voltage variations are harmful, then one said what internal part is at risk. Few do. Most only recite hearsay from advertising rather than learn facts.

Apparently that dimming is trivial since the electrician did not hunt for and fix that defect. Unfortunately, some ignore more serious dimming since it has been seen too often by electricians who foolishly use back stab connections rather than firmly attach a wire to each receptacles screws.

Something completely different and unrelated to low voltage (dimming lights) is a surge. Neither a power strip protector nor UPS nor power conditioner claim to protect from typically destructive surges. Some only claim to protect from a completely different surge that is made irrelevant by protection already inside the Mac. Your concern is a rare anomaly that can overwhelm superior protection inside the Mac. That completely different anomaly must be averted by something completely different - a properly earthed 'whole house' protector. Another completely different anomaly that is really only about $1 per protected appliance, easily installed, and mostly unknown to most who also fear dimming.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jordanz and Tucom
Dude that is awesome! Thanks massive for typing all that out. Thoroughly digested it all. Everything you're saying makes perfect logical sense.

Now, I called up a few local electricians who said this dimming can cause damage to sensitive electronics such as the iMac, but then one of them said Duke sends this kind of dirty power down the pipes all the time. That, coupled with the fridge already having caused this dimming hundreds of times while using the iMac, I'm guessing what COULD have been done has already been done etc. ?

One electrician said his TV went out multiple times, but I've never heard of that happening due to dimming or w/e. I'm guessing probably just a case of a faulty TV that he attributed being mains related.

Would you say they just don't know PCs, Macs, Xbox's, etc. thus their kind of "oh it might damage it" reply and stance on the subject? I'll probably go with that.

I actually brought this up with a family member, and a great point she brought up was if the power sag caused by the fridge - and then the subsequent spike - is identical to if I was using the Dyson (or if both or just one were being used) then what's the point of pursuing this further. The fridge is doing it's thing and I'm not going to get the landlord to rewire the whole complex or whatever.
 
Still not completely specific to any kind of damage towards a computer, but it's getting there.
When powered off, input voltage to electronics does not stop immediately. Voltage slowly drops. If sags (brownouts) cause damage, then so does power off. Again, international design standards say all low voltage must never cause any electronics damage. In fact an entire low voltage region on a chart says this in all capital letters. "No Damage Region".

An unpowered Mac continues running normally until voltage eventually drops too low. Then a Mac stops.

A specification number even defined how long electronics will operate normally without any AC power. For computers, that number is 20 milliseconds or longer.

Tom MacIntyre demonstrates same.
We operate everything on an isolated variac, which means that I can control the voltage going into the unit I am working on from about 150 volts down to zero. This enables us to verify power regulation for over and under-voltage situations. ...
Switching supplies ... can and will regulate with very low voltages on the AC line in; the best I've seen was a TV which didn't die until I turned the variac down to 37 VAC! A brownout wouldn't have even affected the picture on that set.
Electronics will operate perfectly fine on all decreasing voltages. Or will simply power off - as Tom MacIntyre demonstrates.

Also noted with more concern was dimming due to a problem somewhere between the house and transformer. Dimming on all circuits. This example is rare but it can happen. Pole transformer's neutral was failing. Eventually the defect was so bad that electricity had to find an alternative path. In this house, an earth ground was compromised / missing. So current found a new path via the gas line. Fortunately nobody was home when gaskets in a gas meter failed and the house exploded.

As I said, most times, dimming is only due to weak connections in one or some junction boxes. Wires connected to receptacles using a back stab method is a typical example - a bad connection method. But not dangerous. That extremely rare danger, that many consider acceptable, is averted if earth ground is intact. Fortunately nobody was home when that defect finally caused damage. An example of why that earth ground must exist for human safety.

Many electricians need not know how electricity works. Electricians are trained (it take years) in how wires must be installed and connected so that human safety exists - not to know features of electricity such as power factor, floating ground, and EMC. Electrical anomalies that can harm transistors is mostly unknown to electricians. Of course, everyone knows low voltage can be harmful to motors. Less understood is that that low voltage is fine for electronics. Many electricians would not know what Tom MacIntyre demonstrates - that all electronics are designed and tested for all low voltages. Electronics must work normally or power off - without damage.
 
When powered off, input voltage to electronics does not stop immediately. Voltage slowly drops. If sags (brownouts) cause damage, then so does power off. Again, international design standards say all low voltage must never cause any electronics damage. In fact an entire low voltage region on a chart says this in all capital letters. "No Damage Region".

An unpowered Mac continues running normally until voltage eventually drops too low. Then a Mac stops.

A specification number even defined how long electronics will operate normally without any AC power. For computers, that number is 20 milliseconds or longer.

Tom MacIntyre demonstrates same.
Electronics will operate perfectly fine on all decreasing voltages. Or will simply power off - as Tom MacIntyre demonstrates.

Also noted with more concern was dimming due to a problem somewhere between the house and transformer. Dimming on all circuits. This example is rare but it can happen. Pole transformer's neutral was failing. Eventually the defect was so bad that electricity had to find an alternative path. In this house, an earth ground was compromised / missing. So current found a new path via the gas line. Fortunately nobody was home when gaskets in a gas meter failed and the house exploded.

As I said, most times, dimming is only due to weak connections in one or some junction boxes. Wires connected to receptacles using a back stab method is a typical example - a bad connection method. But not dangerous. That extremely rare danger, that many consider acceptable, is averted if earth ground is intact. Fortunately nobody was home when that defect finally caused damage. An example of why that earth ground must exist for human safety.

Many electricians need not know how electricity works. Electricians are trained (it take years) in how wires must be installed and connected so that human safety exists - not to know features of electricity such as power factor, floating ground, and EMC. Electrical anomalies that can harm transistors is mostly unknown to electricians. Of course, everyone knows low voltage can be harmful to motors. Less understood is that that low voltage is fine for electronics. Many electricians would not know what Tom MacIntyre demonstrates - that all electronics are designed and tested for all low voltages. Electronics must work normally or power off - without damage.
While some of your assertions have merit, the following do not:

Conflating 20 milliseconds of low voltage during shutdown with constantly operating under a constantly low voltage.

Operating a device at 40 volts that was designed to run at 120 volts will cause it to draw three times as much current. A device normally drawing 12 Amps would most certainly trip the normal 20 AMP breaker installed in most residences. I'm presuming you're not talking about a CRT Television, as the High-Voltage circuitry would not respond kindly to that low of a voltage, and would not display a normal image.

I'd like to see the forensics associated with the gas explosion, A steady low current drain to ground wouldn't ignite anything. There are many more likely explanations than current suddenly "finding" a gas line.

You also imply there is no reactive load component in a computer, I would argue to the contrary.

"International design standards" can state whatever they like, but they can't counteract Ohm's Law. There are lots of charts with capital letters on them.
 
So is it cool to run the Dyson or nah? Lol.. I just need an answer xD

(Slightly kidding of course, this is a very enlightening and interesting intellectual discussion and I'm learning a lot. According to westom it is safe, but still slightly on the fence about it (It IS a brand new 2K computer..)

I do think what westom's saying has merit and is valid (but of course I'm no electrician, however it just makes sense). Though in this whole topic of research I've come across information stating computers do have reactive load components. Or something like that..

Still have yet to call electrician and get his/her input about the sag of fridge vs. Dyson vs. using both and thus the subsequent spike.

Will update.
 
Last edited:
Operating a device at 40 volts that was designed to run at 120 volts will cause it to draw three times as much current. A device normally drawing 12 Amps would most certainly trip the normal 20 AMP breaker installed in most residences.
Nobody said electronics operate at 40 volts. Nobody said electronics demand 12 amps. You have completely confuses a motorize appliance with electronics.

We have been designing to those standards even before PCs existed. Suddenly hearsay says it never happened? Nonsense often found in subjective posts - also called hearsay.

Meanwhile, he says his TV at 37 volts did display a normal image. He notes that TV did better than what other TVs would do. But all operate just fine at low voltages for hours. Bottom line - low voltage does not harm electronics - despite hearsay.

Gas explosion occurred when amps of current broke down gaskets. A resulting large gas cloud was later sparked by amps arcing across that gap. Obviously it was not a steady current - or low. The nature of that current made obvious why how current does and need not flow in a neutral wire.

I never said or implied anything about reactive components? Why assume what was not discussed? Where is reactive power relevant?

No way around this reality - and ohms law is completely unrelated to it. Electronics must suffer no damage at any and all low voltages for extended periods. If in disagreement, then cite each part destroyed by such low voltages - with numbers. Since nobody does.
 
Still have yet to call electrician and get his/her input about the sag of fridge vs. Dyson vs. using both and thus the subsequent spike.
If a sag, then no spike exists. Sag is a low voltage. Spike is a high voltage. Two completely different and unrelated anomalies.
 
If a sag, then no spike exists. Sag is a low voltage. Spike is a high voltage. Two completely different and unrelated anomalies.

That literally conflicts with everything else I've heard:


Don't spikes occur after a sag or a brownout after the power comes back on?

At a fundamental level and definition of what those two factors are, I could see how "they're unrelated", but in a real world scenario, from what I understand, ONE (a spike) occurs subsequently after the OTHER (a sag) - thus being very related.
 
Don't spikes occur after a sag or a brownout after the power comes back on?
If power restoration occurs due to a sag, then spikes exist constantly. AC electricity goes to zero and to maximum 120 times a second. If spikes are created by increasing voltage, then AC mains are constantly spiking 120 times a second.

Power restoration means appliances are consuming a maximum load. That current increase (a current spike) means voltage drops. IOW voltage increases slowly. Spike is not a voltage spike. Spike causes a lower voltage as everything demands more current. Appreciate how subjective claims result in junk science myths.

Why did the Dyson cause lights to dim? A large current spike caused voltage to drop. Then as the Dyson demanded less current, then voltage slowly returned to normal. Normal by going from zero to a slowly increasing maximum 120 times a second.

No voltage spike occurred when power is restored. Due to a slowly recovering voltage, startup after a blackout can be potentially harmful to motorized appliances. And ideal for electronics. How many also forgot to mention which appliances were at greatest risk?
 
Nobody said electronics operate at 40 volts. Nobody said electronics demand 12 amps. You have completely confuses a motorize appliance with electronics.

We have been designing to those standards even before PCs existed. Suddenly hearsay says it never happened? Nonsense often found in subjective posts - also called hearsay.

Meanwhile, he says his TV at 37 volts did display a normal image. He notes that TV did better than what other TVs would do. But all operate just fine at low voltages for hours. Bottom line - low voltage does not harm electronics - despite hearsay.

Gas explosion occurred when amps of current broke down gaskets. A resulting large gas cloud was later sparked by amps arcing across that gap. Obviously it was not a steady current - or low. The nature of that current made obvious why how current does and need not flow in a neutral wire.

I never said or implied anything about reactive components? Why assume what was not discussed? Where is reactive power relevant?

No way around this reality - and ohms law is completely unrelated to it. Electronics must suffer no damage at any and all low voltages for extended periods. If in disagreement, then cite each part destroyed by such low voltages - with numbers. Since nobody does.
"Amps of current broke down gaskets", you going with that? Perhaps you're implying some sort of "sacrificial anode" activity. Please feel free to send a link from this cataclysm, I'm willing to be informed.

Ohm's law applies to every circuit, If you fail to understand one of the most basic principles of electrical engineering, I really can't take your opinion seriously.
 
"Amps of current broke down gaskets", you going with that? Perhaps you're implying some sort of "sacrificial anode" activity. Please feel free to send a link from this cataclysm, I'm willing to be informed.

Why are confusing ohms law with a nonlinear event such as arcing?

After the explosion, I stumbled on my friend returning from the event (they called him in to investigate that weekend). His utility would pay for the house since is was their transformer failure that compromised gaskets in their gas meter.

For reasons like this, some gas companies also want interior gas lines bonded. Other gas companies do not. Denying because you do not know how hundreds of VAC can cause amps of arcing is
disingenuous.

AC electricity needed and found another path for a failing neutral. Symptom was dimming lights everywhere in house when major appliances power cycled. It rarely happens. But it has happened. (Obviously would not happen in new developments using plastic gas pipes).
 
Sounds like a weak neutral to me. My house was built in 1934, but has been completely re-wired with a 100 AMP panel and many branch circuits. It's a small home with all major appliances natural gas. The only 230v circuit I have is for my central air conditioner. With that said, my washer on it's own dedicated circuit would cause the lights in the rest of the house to flicker on wash cycle. I also had some dimming when certain high load appliances would start. It made no sense because the entire house is wired in 12-2 grounded on 20 AMP circuits and most of the major stuff is either on or close to being on their own circuits.

Anyhow they just built a new house behind mine and I'm guessing the inspector didn't like the old fashioned tiny stacked wires that were serving several homes from the transformer. The power company wouldn't listen to me and basically said if you have electricity... That's good enough. Anyhow when the drop to the neighborhood was upgraded the problem went away.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.