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E-volt E-500 or D40?

cube said:
Now you're going all the way to the D40x instead of the D40?
Click to expand...

The reason I said D40x was because of the larger sensor and more MPs. It seems to be the best of both worlds to me.

I can either get a D40 for $599-ish or the D40x for $799-ish. In either case, I figure I will start off with the kit lens and then add the 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR later and meet my forseeable needs.

I think I am almost set on either of these, unless other opinions come forth.

Thanks again.
 
emaja said:
I found a good price on the E-500 with the two lens kit for $599. I was also looking at the D40, but it comes with one lens for the same price. The Olympus comes with a 35mm equivalent 28-90mm (with included 14-45mm lens) or 80mm-300mm (with included 40-150mm lens). I think that will be enough for me for now.
Click to expand...

Neither camera is really very good for sports. What you should do is fisrt look for a good LENS that cn do what you need. Nikon makes some great optics but the D40 is "crippled" and lacks an interal focus motor that is inside every other Nikon camera and so it can only use lenses that contain their own motor. Nikon cals these "AF-S" type. Many of the best lenses are not AF-S and very few of the used lenes you will find are AF-S. A used D50, D70 or a D80 would be better if you go with Nikon. Olympus is good but their selection of lenses for the evolt is very limited.

So back to shopping. First pick out the lens then pick a camera to fit the lens. Sports is a really hard photographic genre. It combines fast action with long distance and this combination generally means expensive gear.

Here is what to do... Envision a photo that you would want to take. What is the size of the subject. Say a 6 foot tall player. do you want him to fill up 1/2 or 1/3rd of the frame? Lets' say 1/2. So the frame is 12 feet tall. How far away are you? 50 yards? A 150mm or 200mm lens might do it. At double that distance, double the lenght of the lens. You can work it out using basic trig. You can't "cheat" if you want a certain size image from a given distance you need a certain focal length.

Next how "fast" does the lens need to be? If the camera is hand held then the shutter speed must be kept faster than "one over the focal length" to avoid camera shake induced blur. Ok so you have a 200mm lens then you can't go slower than 1/200. unless you opt for one of the "image stabilized" lenses or for a tripod. So how fast need the lens be? The camera's light meter will apply the "sunny 16 rule" which says shuter is 1/ISO aperture at 1/16 in a bright mid day cloudless day. Clouds and late afternood sun angle can cost you four stops. so, that's 1/ISO at f/5.6. Bottom line here is that those chap f/5.6 lenses are just "marginal" for this task. You will have to shoot at ISO 200 with the lens wide open much of the time. but will work fine in bright direct midday sunlight.

I'm not telling you what to buy just how to think through your needs. Look at the lens first in terms of exposure and focal length requirements. Have some one help you with the math if you don't know how. Pick out a lens or two and do consider used lenses. Lenses last nearly forever and the technology is not moving very fast. camera bodies on the other hand are a moving target and become obsolete quickly. So look at the market for used optics brfore yu pick a brand. Mostly you will find Canon and Nikon being offered. I would recommend a body that can take advanage of good used optics if you discover you need a big, expensive lenses (hint, $600 will buy a nice Nikon 80-200mm f/2.8 zoom)
 
ChrisA said:
I'm not telling you what to buy just how to think through your needs. Look at the lens first in terms of exposure and focal length requirements. Have some one help you with the math if you don't know how. Pick out a lens or two and do consider used lenses. Lenses last nearly forever and the technology is not moving very fast. camera bodies on the other hand are a moving target and become obsolete quickly. So look at the market for used optics brfore yu pick a brand. Mostly you will find Canon and Nikon being offered. I would recommend a body that can take advanage of good used optics if you discover you need a big, expensive lenses (hint, $600 will buy a nice Nikon 80-200mm f/2.8 zoom)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input, Chris. Part of the problem is that I do not know enough to ask those questions. It makes it very hard for me to know if I am buying the right camera/lens system as well as making it very hard for you guys to help me out. I do not have anyone that I know personally to ask these questions of, so you guys here are my support.

As far as used goes, I do not know what to look for to make sure I am not getting something with problems or not, so as a result I am looking new. It looks like B&H has a few used cameras and I wish I could still get a D50 as that one seems perfect for me with a large sensor and AF so I can use almost any Nikon lens. B&H has one for $399 so that may be an option. The D80 is still around, but a little more than I think I should spend.

That does leave the XT/XTi which would both fit my needs nicely, and the lenses I see myself getting are readily available. Either Canon or Nikon have everything that I could imaging needing, so I think I will stay with either of those two.

I guess it comes down to personal preference at this point and everyone will have a point to make as to why either of them are better, but in the end I feel that I could not really go wrong with either company.

I am leaning towards grabbing that D50 now, but if anyone has a reason to NOT buy it, please let me know - and other options are welcome also of course.

Thanks again.
 
emaja said:
The reason I said D40x was because of the larger sensor and more MPs. It seems to be the best of both worlds to me.
Click to expand...

The D40X and D40 have the same size sensor, though. The only difference is that the D40 performs better when set to higher ISO.

emaja said:
It looks like B&H has a few used cameras and I wish I could still get a D50 as that one seems perfect for me with a large sensor and AF so I can use almost any Nikon lens. B&H has one for $399 so that may be an option.
Click to expand...

Get it! Solves every problem you have with the D40/D40X, and the E-500.
 
Abstract said:
The D40X and D40 have the same size sensor, though. The only difference is that the D40 performs better when set to higher ISO.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant that the D40s had a larger sensor and more MPs than the E-500, solving the sensor size and MP issue.

As far as the D50 goes, it does sound like a good solution for me, but it is just the body and now I have to get a lens right away. It still gets me going for a good price, but now I have a whole new set of questions.

I am looking at the Nikon 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5D IF AF as a general use lens, but am open to suggestions. B&H has it for $249 new and $179 used. I also see a Nikon 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5g ED-IF AF-S for $349 that I could get as well.

Ideas?
 
For a digital body, I strongly suggest you get a lens that starts at 18mm.

The 18-70 is a great lens (I had one for two years, until I bought the 18-200). I heartily recommend it. It's the best of the 18-xxx lenses (excluding the 18-200, which is certainly a great lens but it's also $750).
 
Westside guy said:
For a digital body, I strongly suggest you get a lens that starts at 18mm.

The 18-70 is a great lens (I had one for two years, until I bought the 18-200). I heartily recommend it. It's the best of the 18-xxx lenses (excluding the 18-200, which is certainly a great lens but it's also $750).
Click to expand...

Thanks for that info.

Just so that I know we are talking about the same lens, I am looking at this 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF AF-S DX -

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/324190-USA/Nikon_2149_18_70mm_f_3_5_4_5_G_AFS_ED_IF.html

...but is there any reason not to look at this Nikon 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX -

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/449087-USA/Nikon_2162_18_135mm_f_3_5_5_6_ED_IF_AF_S.html

It is a few bucks less - not really an issue - and has a bit more reach.

Just curious.

(sorry for the raw links, but AD is not allowing me to do either the HTML or use the "link" button right now)
 
emaja said:
Just so that I know we are talking about the same lens, I am looking at this 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF AF-S DX -

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/324190-USA/Nikon_2149_18_70mm_f_3_5_4_5_G_AFS_ED_IF.html

...but is there any reason not to look at this Nikon 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX -

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/449087-USA/Nikon_2162_18_135mm_f_3_5_5_6_ED_IF_AF_S.html

It is a few bucks less - not really an issue - and has a bit more reach.
Click to expand...

When it comes to buying lenses, reviews are important. Go to Thom Hogan's Nikon website and read the respective reviews of those lenses, for example.

The 18-70 (yes, the one you've linked) was the original kit lens released with the D70. Nikon was trying to make a big splash in the low-end dSLR market, and part of what made the purchase so compelling was this high-quality lens. The later kit lenses have been cheaper, in one way or another.

But read the reviews, and then decide for yourself.
 
emaja said:
...but is there any reason not to look at this Nikon 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX -

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/449087-USA/Nikon_2162_18_135mm_f_3_5_5_6_ED_IF_AF_S.html

It is a few bucks less - not really an issue - and has a bit more reach.
Click to expand...

I've the 18-135, and find it to be a great lens. It pairs nicely with a 70-300mm.

However,

<Controversial>Unless you're going to start buying non-AFS lenses in the very near future, or using features like auto-bracketing, there's no reason not to go the D40/x route. You do gain a bigger LCD, better kit lens ( I've seen D40x bundles with the 18-55 kit lens, and the new 55-200 VR ), and the option for bigger memory cards ( seems trivial until you start running out of space ). Plus, the D40x is 10MP, and noise is well controlled.

Yes, the D50 is still a great camera. Yes, the D40/x is missing some features ( the link below will give you an idea of what it can/can't do ), but it is not by any means a crippled camera.</Controversial>

Check out the Picture Of The Day thread, there are several users on there showing what the D40/x is capable of ( freebooter, MartinC spring to mind ).

dpreview have justed posted their review of the D40x here.
 
IscariotJ said:
<Controversial>Unless you're going to start buying non-AFS lenses in the very near future, or using features like auto-bracketing, there's no reason not to go the D40/x route. You do gain a bigger LCD, better kit lens ( I've seen D40x bundles with the 18-55 kit lens, and the new 55-200 VR ), and the option for bigger memory cards ( seems trivial until you start running out of space ). Plus, the D40x is 10MP, and noise is well controlled.
Click to expand...

That is seen by many as the biggest strike against the D40s, but since I have no lenses at all, I don't really feel that is a shortcoming for me. I overlooked the lack of HDSD compatibility on the D50 and that might be a problem.

SIGH...

The biggest problem that I am having is that all the cameras/lens systems that I am looking at are excellent cameras and come highly recommended from so many sources. I know that I will go through more bodies than lenses, but I still do not want to make a mistake off the bat.

I am also fighting two of my personal tendancies. First, I tend to over-by electronics. If there is a "best" option out there, that is what I usually buy, eventhough it might not be the best option for me. Second, I am trying not to suffer from "analysis paralysis" and make a good choice, but since I know so little about dSLRs I am having issues. Combine that with the fear of making a very expensive mistake and I have several dilemmas.

Thanks for all the input and for being so patient. I just want to make the right choice and you are all giving me great things to think about.
 
emaja said:
I overlooked the lack of HDSD compatibility on the D50 and that might be a problem.
Click to expand...

Another reason to try to find a D70s for $100 more, as it uses CompactFlash.

Anyway, you must be able to put over 300 pics in RAW+BASIC in a 2GB card
(around 5 MB per raw, 0.8 MB per BASIC).
 
cube said:
Now you're going all the way to the D40x instead of the D40?
6 mpix is OK. I would consider a used D70s (not D70 because of BGLOD fear) for about $500 for more lens options (specially used). It also has some valuable features over the D40(x), like DOF preview, commander mode, top lighted status display, more buttons).
Click to expand...

Sorry to be ignorant but what is BGLOD?

I was leaning towards a used D50

What do you think of those?

WIll all Nikon lenses work on the D50?

Does it have a full size CCD ?

I moving over to digital from a Canon A1 35mm with Canon 30-70mm & 70-210mm lenses.

I've heard the digital SLRs are still not as good as good old 35mm film
 
BGLOD = Blinking Green Light of Death is a defect which can affect D70 (not s) cameras. It stops working. Nikon repairs this even out of warranty is USA and other countries (I don't know if everywhere).

The D50 is a good camera. The pics might even be better than with the D70(s), but the D70(s) has some features which are important for advanced users.

These cameras will take basically any lens that is not "pre-AI" (read: really old), but will only meter with autofocus lenses (ie, you need to use a spotmeter or judgement with manual lenses). The D200 and up also meter with manual lenses.

Nikon does not have (expensive) "full-frame" cameras. They are APS-C, the usual size for DSLRs.

Film still has an edge in dynamic range, but if the scene is static you can do HDR with digital. If this is important to you for moving subjects, look at a Fuji model with SuperCCD SR.
 
Well, today I did what I should have done before and I went to my local camera shop and fiddled with the cameras I am considering. The D50 was very large for me and the D40 felt much better. The Rebels had a very quick AF where the D40 seemed very sluggish to me. I also played with the E-500 just to see if I was overlooking something and I was happier with the controls on either the Canon or Nikons.

Since Cube mentioned it, the salesman showed me a Pentax K10D and the K100D. They felt great in my hands, had a top LCD monitor and had anti-shake in the body and can use any Pentax lens. I was impressed to say the least.

Abe's has the K10D with a 18-55mm $838.95 or a K100D with the same lens AND the 50-200 f/4-5.6 for $799.08. I can add a DA series 50-200mm f/4-5.6 lens for $215.95 or an FA-J series 75-300mm f/4.5-5.8 lens for $134.95. Then there is the $150 rebate on top of that. I could get the K10D with two lenses for $905.90 after rebates or the K100 and the two lenses for $649.08.

I think this is the way that I will go.

Opinions?
 
emaja said:
Well, today I did what I should have done before and I went to my local camera shop and fiddled with the cameras I am considering. The D50 was very large for me and the D40 felt much better. The Rebels had a very quick AF where the D40 seemed very sluggish to me. I also played with the E-500 just to see if I was overlooking something and I was happier with the controls on either the Canon or Nikons.
Click to expand...

The slow AF is not the fault of the body. Which lens were you using on the D40? Was it the kit lens? My 18-135 is fast, and my 105 is very fast.

There are some Pentax users on this board who will probably be able to tell you better, but I think the main difference between the K10 and K100 is the MP ( 10 vs 6 ). Both have inbody IS ( unless you get an K110 without, which is cheaper still ).
 
IscariotJ said:
There are some Pentax users on this board who will probably be able to tell you better, but I think the main difference between the K10 and K100 is the MP ( 10 vs 6 ). Both have inbody IS ( unless you get an K110 without, which is cheaper still ).
Click to expand...

That's like saying there is no difference between the Nikon D80 and D200. :eek:


The Pentax K10D body feels very good. Actually, I can say the same thing about the K100D. The K100D feels as good as the Nikon D50, if not better, and noticeably better than the Canon 400D/XTi and Olympus E-500, IMO. You have more control with the K10D and can change settings faster. Its more....shall we say...."swift". The K10D is bigger than the K100D, but good cameras are big cameras.

I would get the K100D and the 2 kit lenses, and go from there. :)
 
I was using the kit lenses all around since that was what I would be using at first. I thought that would be most fair to compare them that way.

Abstract said:
The Pentax K10D body feels very good. Actually, I can say the same thing about the K100D. The K100D feels as good as the Nikon D50, if not better, and noticeably better than the Canon 400D/XTi and Olympus E-500, IMO. You have more control with the K10D and can change settings faster. Its more....shall we say...."swift". The K10D is bigger than the K100D, but good cameras are big cameras.

I would get the K100D and the 2 kit lenses, and go from there. :)
Click to expand...

Besides the quick AF, what impressed me was the general build quality of the Pentax cameras. I know that is not an indication of how good any thing is, but I want a $900 camera to feel like it costs $900 and neither the Rebels nor the D40 felt that way. They both felt cheap in comparison.

I priced out both kits with the same lenses and the difference comes to $360. For that $360, the K10D give you rechargeable batteries, dust removal and 10MP instead of 6. There are some other features as mentioned, but those are the features that matter most to me. I am rather hung up on the batteries, but realize that I could get rechargeable CR-V3s, but that makes the difference less than $300 after I buy batteries and a charger.

Both felt great in my hands and I could see myself using either one rather easily once I get used to all the options that I have which I have never had with a P&S.

I plan to order one of the Pentax cameras today from Abe's. I will talk to them and see what their opinion is, but I am pretty sure I will go with the K100D and two lenses. I am trying to get over the AA/CR-V3 batteries and 6.1MP as shortcomings.

Thanks again. You all have been a tremendous help. Really.
 
Well, I bit the bullet and ordered the Pentax K100D kit with the 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 and the 50-200 f/4-5.6 lens from Abe's. I have an SD card and rechargeable AAs, but will order more as well as a bag and filters tonight. I should have the camera and lens tomorrow so I will post back my impressions and maybe a few shots.

A heartfelt thanks to all for all the guidance and suggestions. You all helped a great deal.
 
A big feature of the K10D is the weather sealing. You don't get this in any other camera cheaper than the D200 (but the D200 also has a metal body).
 
compuwar said:
Sure it is. Pick any lens you want, and I'll bet real money that it'll focus faster and better on a D2x than on a D40. Number of AF points, accuracy of the CAM software for that body and voltage all play a role.
Click to expand...

Really? A D2x will focus faster than a D40? :p I should hope so, considering the price difference.

What I was trying to show, was that AF speed is also dependant on the lens. My 105mm focuses faster on the D40's than it's kit lens.

Glad you picked a camera, emaja, can't wait to see some shots!
 
The K100D viewfinder has a bit better coverage and magnification than the D40, too.
 
Have I mentioned that I hate UPS?

I ordered the camera yesterday and paid for the overnight shipping since there is an air show in town over the weekend that I thought would be a nice way to break it in. Well, it got delayed due to bad weather in Louisville, KY.

Funny thing is that I also ordered a memory card and the reader from New Egg and it came today with no delays - by FedEx.

Go figure.
 
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