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Early Intel - Trash or treasure? MacBook Pro 2008
- Thread starter AphoticD
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Thank you to everyone for all the great feedback! These early MBP's are definitely going strong for retro enthusiasts like us. Has anyone tried getting the Mojave Beta to run on these Macs?
Well done @zackkmac that is a fantastic score. I'd love to get a 17" model, but they have been rare to find at a good price here. That temperature drop is very impressive too. I've found the Grizzly Kryonaut paste to be the best I've used and I've done many of my Macs with it now. My G5s certainly appreciated the improved thermal performance.
As others have pointed out, the goal to longevity with the '602' chips is going to be keeping the temperatures low. Re-pasting and then running MacsFanControl or smcFanControl to raise the default fan speed will certainly run things cooler and likely keep the GPU from failing until a later day.
@dosdude1 is adamant that the 603 revised GPU is indestructable so it would be very reassuring to have one installed. Once I find a way to create more space at home, (and depending on finances), I will set myself up with all the right gear to learn and perform some BGA GPU swaps myself.
Well done @zackkmac that is a fantastic score. I'd love to get a 17" model, but they have been rare to find at a good price here. That temperature drop is very impressive too. I've found the Grizzly Kryonaut paste to be the best I've used and I've done many of my Macs with it now. My G5s certainly appreciated the improved thermal performance.
As others have pointed out, the goal to longevity with the '602' chips is going to be keeping the temperatures low. Re-pasting and then running MacsFanControl or smcFanControl to raise the default fan speed will certainly run things cooler and likely keep the GPU from failing until a later day.
@dosdude1 is adamant that the 603 revised GPU is indestructable so it would be very reassuring to have one installed. Once I find a way to create more space at home, (and depending on finances), I will set myself up with all the right gear to learn and perform some BGA GPU swaps myself.
Yep, it is fantastic paste. I used to use AS5 until I came across Kryonaut and it's remarkable what it can do.
I haven't tried Mojave, kind of wanted to wait until its public release, but I forgot to mention that I do have this 17" running High Sierra with absolutely 0 issues (thanks a ton dosdude1). It had an incompatible WiFi card installed but I ordered the Broadcom card that supports wireless AC and Bluetooth 4.1 and the corresponding adapter, and in the meantime swapped in my iMac's Atheros card so it still has working WiFi.
Also wanted to get the 602 upgraded to a 603 while the board still works but eBay prices for this are pretty high...it would be nice if someone here offered the service to MR forum members at a more reasonable cost.
I'd definitely be interested in a group buy if we had enough people and someone who could perform the upgrades.
I haven't tried Mojave, kind of wanted to wait until its public release, but I forgot to mention that I do have this 17" running High Sierra with absolutely 0 issues (thanks a ton dosdude1). It had an incompatible WiFi card installed but I ordered the Broadcom card that supports wireless AC and Bluetooth 4.1 and the corresponding adapter, and in the meantime swapped in my iMac's Atheros card so it still has working WiFi.
Also wanted to get the 602 upgraded to a 603 while the board still works but eBay prices for this are pretty high...it would be nice if someone here offered the service to MR forum members at a more reasonable cost.
I'd definitely be interested in a group buy if we had enough people and someone who could perform the upgrades.
Wow looking good man. Nice work. Those machines are also good to run file server software. So easy to repair too.View attachment 765638
We have a beautiful early 2008, MacBook Pro 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo, fully restored, operational and fighting fit!
If I had even more patience, I would have spent more time trying to tidy up the aluminum bezel, but I'm okay with it like this. More important than looking nice is it's structural integrity, which I am pleased to say is now strong like any other typical MacBook Pro (or Aluminum PowerBook). It was very close to shearing right off and there were screws in the hinge which had snapped in half, so they needed to be extracted and replaced.
View attachment 765639 View attachment 765640 View attachment 765641 View attachment 765642 View attachment 765643 View attachment 765637
This saved, salvaged, recycled and re-purposed Mac will now live another day. I plan on keeping this one. Whenever I find myself getting this heavily involved with an older Mac, I end up putting them into regular use instead of just keeping it as a 'collectable' looking shiny and untouched or simply selling it off again.
-AphoticD
I do perform these GPU repairs... I do it for $150 for anyone located in the US. See my video where I go over the replacement process.Yep, it is fantastic paste. I used to use AS5 until I came across Kryonaut and it's remarkable what it can do.
I haven't tried Mojave, kind of wanted to wait until its public release, but I forgot to mention that I do have this 17" running High Sierra with absolutely 0 issues (thanks a ton dosdude1). It had an incompatible WiFi card installed but I ordered the Broadcom card that supports wireless AC and Bluetooth 4.1 and the corresponding adapter, and in the meantime swapped in my iMac's Atheros card so it still has working WiFi.
Also wanted to get the 602 upgraded to a 603 while the board still works but eBay prices for this are pretty high...it would be nice if someone here offered the service to MR forum members at a more reasonable cost.
I've installed the Mojave beta on my unibody 2008 a few weeks ago (thanks Dosdude). I've not played with it much but it seems to work fine although Notes crashed a lot and there are graphical issues if you don't use dark mode (see Dosdude's posting in the Mojave forum).
Picked up a cheap 2011 15" recently which I've nicknamed "The Lemon", this is due to the notorious dedicated gpu issues these models have. I found a post in the Macbook Pro forum which details how to get around this and force it to always use the integrated graphics instead. It's only been a day or so, but so far so good!
Whoops, must have missed where you said you offer the service, but I did see the post where you had done the repair! Very nice. I will keep that in mind for when I’m able to do it.
So, I’ve been comparing sellers/prices on eBay for the exchange services they offer on this, and I’ve messaged two sellers so far asking if they use this new 603 chip and if it’s 128-bit or 64-bit.
Both sellers have responded saying it’s the 603 of course, but that they don’t use the 128-bit because it’s “the old problematic one.” But that makes no sense to me. This is the 603 chip so how could one variant be bad?
I can do it for you if you want... I've been using the same 603 chips for awhile, and they always work just fine. Not sure what they're going on about with "the bad one" and whatnot, but I know that ALL 603 chips are good and won't have any issues. One thing to note is the 128bit chips cost significantly more than the 64bit ones. The only difference is the 64it chips can only support 128MB of VRAM, while the 128bit works with 256 and 512MB configurations. I wouldn't trust either of those sellers, as you'll end up with a 128MB VRAM limitation if they do use a 64bit chip (which they probably will since they're much cheaper)
I’ll definitely go through you, I had a feeling the ones on ebay would have a catch like this. So now it makes sense, they’re using the 64-bit to maximize their profits. One of them even told me “this won’t affect your laptop’s real performance” - I think I’d notice the difference between 128MB and 512MB.
I’m not quite ready to do it just yet but when I am I’ll PM you, was just shopping around for now. Glad I did. But your price of $150 includes the correct 128-bit chip right?
Yep, indeed it does. The $150 covers the cost of the chip and the work needed to replace the chip.
Well, I sure got one heck of a score off eBay the other day for $20. This is an Early-2008 15" MacBook Pro, that is in absolutely PRISTINE condition! Like most of these systems, the only issue was a defective GPU. After replacing it with a new, revised G84-603-A2 chipset (which cost MORE than I paid for the machine!), the system began working perfectly! Not only is this system in amazingly good condition, but it also came with a near-new battery, and 4GB of RAM. I've now installed a 128GB SSD with a copy of Mavericks on it, however I'll probably install Mojave using my patch once I get a compatible WiFi card. Very happy with this machine!
That's one lucky find and like you said it looks immaculate. Most of the ones I see on eBay over here are fairly battered. That's the thing about 2nd MacBooks, it's very hard to find one that isn't scratched or dented due to the aluminium (and careless owners).
So good you have the skill to replace the GPU, will be a great daily, the 15" screens are so good.
Has anyone tried to use Grizzly Conductonaut Liquid-Metal on an old intel MBP?
It's not as foolproof as the Ceramic2 I previously used once and only on my 12"PowerBook and will damage aluminium and conducting parts on contact. The A1260 has copper-heatpipes but iFixit-pictures show head-conducting paste also spread out to the aluminium parts,sitting next to the copper-heatpipes ...
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/wlWJDRPVaB1WlQcF.large
The reviews about Conductonaut's capabilities look very promising.
Since I've lost one A1260, probably due to the faulty GPU failure, I'd like to repaste my current unit.
Presumably with Kryonaut - but maybe someone can tell more about LiquidMetal-paste.
It's not as foolproof as the Ceramic2 I previously used once and only on my 12"PowerBook and will damage aluminium and conducting parts on contact. The A1260 has copper-heatpipes but iFixit-pictures show head-conducting paste also spread out to the aluminium parts,sitting next to the copper-heatpipes ...
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/wlWJDRPVaB1WlQcF.large
The reviews about Conductonaut's capabilities look very promising.
Since I've lost one A1260, probably due to the faulty GPU failure, I'd like to repaste my current unit.
Presumably with Kryonaut - but maybe someone can tell more about LiquidMetal-paste.
I saw recently a video on YouTube from Snazzy Labs and the guy showed how the look of the heatplate (?) changed after 3 (?) months of using liquid metal on his MBP and he concluded that he's not doing it again for now. After all the risks seems very high of spilling the liquid metal and electrically shorting and quickly corrosing other metal parts.
Many thanks - very helpful! After watching that video I will definitely choose Kryonaut for repasting.
Last night I did the "oven-fix" for one of my defective Logicboards (at 160°C for 15min). First time ever ...
A lot of screws, but (dis)assembling was easy done with the help of the iFixit step-by-step-guide. Had only Ceramic2 to repast the unit, but nevertheless temperatures are decent after repasting (better than my current working-unit, which will definitely get a repast with Kryonaut too)I was pretty amazed, everything went flawless, though I now, that fix might work only temporarily.
Well, it's just for my personal use, not to cheat any buyer - thinking of that makes me pretty upset, because the same thing happened to me with this unit, which I recently got through an auction and the seller didn't mention anything about several flaws and the unit was dead just after a fresh installation of ElCapitan.)
That specific MBP A1260 definitely had been opened before and apparently someone did a (useless) "reballing" of the defective NVIDIA-602-GPU or anything else, since those semi-transparent adhesive angles at all for corners of the GPU were removed.
Despite of my last night's oven-fix being the second one (or even more?) done on that specific LogicBoard all PCIe Lanes were fully recovered to x16 after the procedure...
I wonder, how long that fix will last, and when the GPU fails again and if then another oven-fix will be successful again.
Gonna get a suitable sticker for this MacBookPro. Maybe "Powered by Fairy-Dust ..."
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Talking about baking, my oven-fix of a 27" iMac is still going strong after 6months. This was a 3-part approach: cpu and gpu repasted with K4 and K5 Pro, the display resolution scaled down a notch, and MacFanControl installed. Link HERE.
If I'd listened to Louis Rossmann, this iMac would still be collecting dust in a closet. He who dares.......
If I'd listened to Louis Rossmann, this iMac would still be collecting dust in a closet.
He who dares.......
Oh, good job! - And you remind me of one of my 24" white c2d intel iMac waiting for repair. It stopped working all in a sudden some time last year. Since there was replacement, I wasn't in a hurry yet.Talking about baking, my oven-fix of a 27" iMac is still going strong after 6months. This was a 3-part approach: cpu and gpu repasted with K4 and K5 Pro, the display resolution scaled down a notch, and MacFanControl installed. Link HERE.
If I'd listened to Louis Rossmann, this iMac would still be collecting dust in a closet.
About reflowing: as I understood, the GPU problem of the early intel-MacBookPros is not related to the balls of solder between mainboard and GPU-chip but related to something within the GPU-chip, that miraculously recovers by just applying well dosed heat to the GPU. In my case 150-160°C for 15 min apparently was enough - I didn't dare to apply more heat anyway.
As far as I understood temperatures above 200° might reflow solder on the board but most important might also harm any soldering and other components on the LogicBoard.
Don't know, if it's the same with the iMacs LogicBoard.
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Sometimes. The GPU chip is attached to the PCB within the substrate (the green wafer) by tiny solder balls, which themselves are also prone to cracking through excessive heat/cooling cycles. Reflowing can also reseat these solder balls within the substrate as well as the entire processor to the logic board. Sometimes, the chip burns itself out and no amount of reflowing will fix it. As far as I understand, with the 602 chip, the problem is GPU chip actually dies rather than any connection with chip and its mounting board.
Reflowing your MBP logic board may fix it depending on what the immediate problem is with your MacBook - brittle solder or wonky chip.
I HIGHLY advise you DO NOT bake any motherboards, or "reflow" these defective chips. Yes, I know it "works", but it will only last for about a month if you actually use the machine for anything intensive. If you let it sit around and rarely use it, it will last quite a bit longer, but will STILL fail. Just know that I offer a GPU replacement service for these machines for a very reasonable price compared to anybody else you'll find ($150 plus the cost of shipping the machine back). As I've stated before, the new, revised chips that I use will NEVER fail, and the machine will never have any more GPU issues again.
I'd rather have that revised 128bit 603-GPU built in, price is really worth the effort, but in my case shipping is the critical bottleneck when it comes to both fees and reliability ...
Apparently temperatures of 150-160°C (same level like on your IR-preheating) seem to be sufficient to do the fix.
I understand, "reflowing" with the old GPU left in place or baking the whole board above 160°C is a no go for any serious computer-workshop and nothing I would dare to do myself in our oven ...
(Well, that's an endless discussion ...)
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dosdude, Point well taken. If it were not for shipping charges I would send you at least 2 MBPro moboards from people I know here who need that replacement service. I have no problems with your $150 repair fee itself, it's the additional european shipping charges that would make them hesitate. As I'm travelling to Montreal next month, any idea of shipping costs from & return to Canada? Hope I can bring some business your way.
My personal kind of Neil Young day today ...
1."Tonight's The Night"
Grizzly Kryonaut in our postbox this morning. Holidays.
2. "Burnt"
the second defective LogicBoard (150°/18min). When trying to reassemble I couldn't insert the two long screws in the middle of the bottom-edge. Turned out, there are two metal+plastic clamps attached to the logicboard, that serve as thread for them long screws. They melted in the oven ...
3. "The Needle And The Damage Done"
Tried to reopen a kind of new hole in the melted plastic ... (song title tell's you the rest of the story). Now there's one "burned" book unfortunately missing two long screws at the bottom. Better to remove those two items before any heat is applied to the board.
4. "Tired Eyes"
After a long evening swapping boards, repasting, messing with the plastic clamps, several changes of RAM, drives etc. I can now fiddle around with the books without need to have a look at the iFixit-pages.
Well, it has been a lesson - kudos to @dosdude1 ... the refrain "Please take my advise" doesn't get out of my brain now.
1."Tonight's The Night"
Grizzly Kryonaut in our postbox this morning. Holidays.
2. "Burnt"
the second defective LogicBoard (150°/18min). When trying to reassemble I couldn't insert the two long screws in the middle of the bottom-edge. Turned out, there are two metal+plastic clamps attached to the logicboard, that serve as thread for them long screws. They melted in the oven ...
3. "The Needle And The Damage Done"
Tried to reopen a kind of new hole in the melted plastic ... (song title tell's you the rest of the story). Now there's one "burned" book unfortunately missing two long screws at the bottom. Better to remove those two items before any heat is applied to the board.
4. "Tired Eyes"
After a long evening swapping boards, repasting, messing with the plastic clamps, several changes of RAM, drives etc. I can now fiddle around with the books without need to have a look at the iFixit-pages.
Well, it has been a lesson - kudos to @dosdude1 ... the refrain "Please take my advise" doesn't get out of my brain now.
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