You don't need a comp sci degree to be bothered by that. I have a mech. eng. degree and it bothers me too, because half the time i don't know if people know what they are saying
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EDGE vs. 3G
- Thread starter Universal Truth
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You don't need a comp sci degree to be bothered by that. I have a mech. eng. degree and it bothers me too, because half the time i don't know if people know what they are saying
That's because the terms passed out of CS usage and into the public's vocabulary, without the necessary training.
It's not the only piece, however. In the early days of computing a big push was to use K for computer Kilo (meaing multiples of 1024) versus "k" for "kilo" as in 1000.
Thus the correct term is KBps for kilobytes per second, and Kbps for kilobits per second. But I doubt you'll see that either.
3G-2 EV-DO, are those speeds referring to Rev.0 or the upcoming REV.A EV-DO?
great info
best explanation i've seen annywhere...thanks
Well, here's a problem. Some of the people talking here imply that EDGE is the same on every device, when its been markedly clear that according to many sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution
The slots/classes break down like this:
So I'm left wondering if the iPhone uses the best class of EDGE, whether its able to combine many slots, and/or whether Cingular/AT&T will be making said slots available for a single user. I've heard people in California say their EDGE connection has been able to get up to 200kbps. Gizmodo has commented that 40kbps was what was being clocked. AT&T has been quoting 70kbps-200kbps. For people in this thread to be saying "8 kpbs" almost crystalizes the fact that the device itself plays a huge role in what its capable of, despite someone "experience".
I'm a little irritated that there is LITTLE authoritative information on this, and anecdotal information always seems to be horribly incomplete or spoken from the perspective of someone who might later say, "Oh! I didn't realize that about the service I was using!" I don't think irrational exuberance about the iPhone is smart, but on this particular point, which I think is critical, "cost/speed" of EDGE... I don't think they're going to bail on this. I don't think they can afford to screw it up. This is the best opportunity for the "new" AT&T to win back customers and switch new ones. If they treat it like a "trap" for suckers, they're going to be in for a rude awakening on sales after the 29th... 'cause news travels fast. Even on EDGE.
So, what was your "horrible" given what you said EV-DO was doing? I was looking at this page here on the Treo 650...
http://www.jiwire.com/palmone-treo650-product-overview.htm
Were typical data rates around 100 kbps? 'Cause I'm thinking thats around what I'd be happy with.
~ CB
best explanation i've seen annywhere...thanks
Heres my thing. Why no 3G support? Heck, my GF's razr has 3G! Not even my new Blackberry 8800 has it!
When I tether my EDGE phone to my Macbook, I get about 25-30 kilobytes per second... so it's definitely way better than dial up speeds.
When I first got DSL way back in 2002-2003, our speeds were capped at 40kilobytes per second and that was very usable. So I'm not concerned about EDGE speeds.
The only killer is latency. A lot of times my EDGE connection will just drop and then the phone will have to reconnect. I don't know if that's a problem with my phone though as my phone is not "always" connected.
Do we know for sure yet whether or not the iPhone will be able to tether to a laptop via Bluetooth?
When I first got DSL way back in 2002-2003, our speeds were capped at 40kilobytes per second and that was very usable. So I'm not concerned about EDGE speeds.
The only killer is latency. A lot of times my EDGE connection will just drop and then the phone will have to reconnect. I don't know if that's a problem with my phone though as my phone is not "always" connected.
Do we know for sure yet whether or not the iPhone will be able to tether to a laptop via Bluetooth?
most likely talking bits, and is that was bytes it would be around 300 - 400 kbps connection, which is around twice over edge's range
Well, you'll be glad to know I won't need to hear it again.
:: tips hat ::~ CB
Uh, must differ with you here. Rev A does marginally increase downstream speeds (from ~550kbit to 700kbit). More importantly, latencies decrease dramatically - from 300ms to 100ms.
Anyways, I've used HSDPA, CDMA and EVDO r0 and rA.
EDGE - 100kb/s
CDMA 1xRTT - 128kb/s
EVDO r0 - 500-550kb/s
EVDO rA - 750-800kb/s
dont wait for 3g, the edge on iphone is FAST!
I FORGOT to test the edge, and was driving around the second day I had my iphone and needed a map. i was browsing, then at a light decided to look up my fav sports teams web page, then more stuff, and then it hit me..I was ON EDGE!!! Its that fast. I think its funny how some people nitpick over stats. Oh I must have the 2.33 ghz, the 2.16 is not fast enough, or Fords 210 hp mustang must be slow, Ill take the 240 hp in a Pathfinder. NITPICKING. the edge network is more than fast enough. is it cable modem fast, no, but its DSL fast.
I FORGOT to test the edge, and was driving around the second day I had my iphone and needed a map. i was browsing, then at a light decided to look up my fav sports teams web page, then more stuff, and then it hit me..I was ON EDGE!!! Its that fast. I think its funny how some people nitpick over stats. Oh I must have the 2.33 ghz, the 2.16 is not fast enough, or Fords 210 hp mustang must be slow, Ill take the 240 hp in a Pathfinder. NITPICKING. the edge network is more than fast enough. is it cable modem fast, no, but its DSL fast.
I was in the same dilemma, but was able to con myself this way; .. For web browsing on 3G capable phones, .. faster craptacular mini-me web pages, is just crap brought to you quicker,.. where the iPhone’s web browsing is worth the extra wait. If you need large Email attachments on the go, then get a lap top with a 3G card. This is a phone remember.
I have an AT&T 3G card in my laptop and consistently get around 150-200 kb/sec. EDGE is definitely slower... maybe 10-20 kb/sec.
I haven't bought an iPhone yet, but I did try one in the store and EDGE was more than adequate for pulling up text and image-based web pages. It reminded me of my old 128kb/sec iDSL connection.
The best description I can give is that the text leaps right on the page and the images follow one by one. If most of your information is text, there's nothing wrong with it at all. If you're focusing on images, there's a slight delay but it might be mildly irritating to wait.
Most of the messages I've seen about EDGE make me think people feel it's a deal killer and it will exasperate them to try it. I think this really overstates the case.
Certainly if the decision is between, say, a SAMSUNG Blackjack or a HTC phone with 3G and an iPhone with EDGE, I'm not going to hesitate one microsecond before choosing iPhone.
Hope that helps.
D
The best description I can give is that the text leaps right on the page and the images follow one by one. If most of your information is text, there's nothing wrong with it at all. If you're focusing on images, there's a slight delay but it might be mildly irritating to wait.
Most of the messages I've seen about EDGE make me think people feel it's a deal killer and it will exasperate them to try it. I think this really overstates the case.
Certainly if the decision is between, say, a SAMSUNG Blackjack or a HTC phone with 3G and an iPhone with EDGE, I'm not going to hesitate one microsecond before choosing iPhone.
Hope that helps.
D
Youtube on EDGE in the Apple store flat out didn't work for me. I'm not saying it worked 'badly', I'm saying it didn't work at all. Even the Apple store guy said "you don't want to be using Edge on this phone if you can help it".
Loading sites found me putting the phone down and starting to walk out. I'm not a hater, I live and breath in my obsession for this phone and want one SO badly, I'm just relaying my experience. We didn't buy one.
I am withholding judgement on this a bit because perhaps the building was causing interferance, etc. I don't know enough about cell technology to know. I did see a comparison of EDGE vs. Sprint's 3g EVDO on a site that was very encouraging. But I just wish I could take a phone out of the Apple store to see how Edge works. Or there wasn't a restocking fee. We have an EVDO phone right now and it's one thing to go from nothing to Edge, but perhaps another to go down in speed from what one's used to. I wish I could rent one for a bit. Other than that, we might wait for 3g or buy with the intent on taking a hit on Ebay when v2 comes out.
Loading sites found me putting the phone down and starting to walk out. I'm not a hater, I live and breath in my obsession for this phone and want one SO badly, I'm just relaying my experience. We didn't buy one.
I am withholding judgement on this a bit because perhaps the building was causing interferance, etc. I don't know enough about cell technology to know. I did see a comparison of EDGE vs. Sprint's 3g EVDO on a site that was very encouraging. But I just wish I could take a phone out of the Apple store to see how Edge works. Or there wasn't a restocking fee. We have an EVDO phone right now and it's one thing to go from nothing to Edge, but perhaps another to go down in speed from what one's used to. I wish I could rent one for a bit. Other than that, we might wait for 3g or buy with the intent on taking a hit on Ebay when v2 comes out.
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3027 wrote a detailed review of the iPod. From that I understand the current iPhone bottleneck in terms of painting a page is CPU and memory and not the speed of the connection. With Wi-Fi, it will still be slow compared to a laptop for the same page. So, as it stands now, EDGE + Wi-Fi is a reasonable compromise. 3G on this processor + memory configuration is not going to do you too much good.
Of course, Jobs is not going to say underpowered iPhone is the reason why 3G does not make sense. It is probably as high-powered as the engineering compromises allow ( power, battery life, heat, size, packaging are some of the engineering consideratins ) but still cpu + memory will be the bottleneck. The technology has not advanced far enough to provide blazing page loads on a small device like this which is expected to have decent battery life, compact size and not cause burns on your hand and ears!!
Of course, Jobs is not going to say underpowered iPhone is the reason why 3G does not make sense. It is probably as high-powered as the engineering compromises allow ( power, battery life, heat, size, packaging are some of the engineering consideratins ) but still cpu + memory will be the bottleneck. The technology has not advanced far enough to provide blazing page loads on a small device like this which is expected to have decent battery life, compact size and not cause burns on your hand and ears!!
FYI, unit multiples of bits are conventionally used for data communications, whereas multiples of bytes are used for data storage.
So, while it'd be great to use the same for both, talking about "kilobytes of bandwidth" etc.. only tends to confuse the issue.
So, while it'd be great to use the same for both, talking about "kilobytes of bandwidth" etc.. only tends to confuse the issue.
Quit spewing misinformation. You have no idea what you are talking about, do some research before posting please.
Kilobites, not bits? You haven't the slightest clue. 3g-2? Lol.
You simply don't understand the definition of 3g or it's technologies.
EVDO stands for Evolution Data Only. Meaning it handles data only and not voice. UMTS handles voice and data simultaneously. No one engineer or person has used the term "bits" in quite along time. If at all. you are truely clueless. And it shows.
EDGE is not simply classified as a "2.5g network. That is simply not true.
It depends what class of EDGE you are talking about and about what technology of EDGE. EDGE class 32(or 5TS)is considered 3g. With speeds of 200kps to 300kp. With real world sustained speeds of over 250kps up to 300kps(296kps to be exact). This is a 3g technology. EDGE Evolution is a 3g technology, with up to 1mbps with real world speeds of 600 to 700kps. This speeds matches EVDO REV 0, surpassed UMTS and is slightly below HSDPA. so yes it is a 3g Technology as defined by the 3GPP. No doubt about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP
http://www.3gpp.org/specs/specs.htm
Now the current class of EDGE that is in the iphone is class 12. Meaning 4upload slots and 4 dl slots. Class 10 EDGE has 4dl with 3ul. Class 32 EDGE has 5dl and 4up. All at 59.2kps per slot without and implemation of EDGE Evolution. With EDGE Evolution, these are doubled, as the bandwidth is doubled form 200mhz to 400mhz, allowing more data per timeslot. So instead of 59.2 you can theoratically see 118.4 per time slot. All software upgrades with hardware upgrades made to the Tower in increments.
AT&t implemention of "operation fine edge" was the first step in implementing EDGE Evolution to the AT&T network. With no hardware needed to the user, since At&t added the bandwidth to the tower using modulation schemes in the software, increasing bandwidth over 200mhz, i don't know what they got or how much over, but it wasn't to 400mhz yet. That will come in 2009. But they are getting more than 59.2 per time slot. This allows sustained speeds of well over 200kps to up to 279kps on the tests we have done. I have a cingular 3125 and have reached speeds over 200kps consistently, all day long. This is on a class 10 edge device. With 4time slots download. Same as the Iphones class 12 EDGE with 4ts download, but class 12 EDGE has 4upload slots as opposed to class's 10s 3upload slots.
With the upgraded towers, and the first implementations of EDGE Evolution at those towers, speeds should be on average over 200kps. Easily.
Go to dslreports.com and mobile speed test with your iphone to see for yourself.
I will break it down for you the different technologies.
RTT*1 is slower than EDGE. Current EDGE speeds are almost or are double that of Rtt*1. Rtt is not considered a 3g technology in any flavor. period. This also depends on the class of EDGE. EDGE class 32 without the EDGE evolution upgrade more than doubles the speed of RTT. This is a fact. Not even comparable. EDGE class 32 is almost as fast as UMTS in the dl department.
UMTS has slower dl speeds than EVDO REV 0. But has higher UPLOAD speeds. these technologies are compatible.
EVDO REv A and HSDPA are comparable when dl speeds are concerned, with HSDPA having a higher dl speed, but EVDO REV A having a higher Upload speed.
HSPA and EVDO REV B are comparable.
Wimax and LTE are comparable.
But the big thing people are missing here is that EVDO is data only, while At&t's technology such as HSDPA is data AND VOICE. That meaning when you are on a voice call and you can use data while talking, EVDO you can do one or the other. EDGE has this as well, but your data will not be lost but you can pause your data. EVDO while on data, your on data, and no voice calls can be made. UMTS is a better technology than EVDO. HSPA has a higher maximum ceiling for data, more than EVDO.
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/20340.php
This explains everything. Don't hate educate.
www.ericsson.com/technology/whitepapers/3107_The_evolution_of_EDGE_A.pdf
Alot of people are getting these speeds, Heres proof:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1189862&page=1&operation+fine+edge
The EDGE speeds on the iphone is just fine. Four to six times dialup isn't good enough for you? Get over it.