MP 7,1 Editing 1080p not smoothing FCPX with 12 cores and 580x [video example]

[iluvmacs99]

MP4 is an interframe format, so before any video editing software like Final Cut ProX or Davinci Resolve Studio can begin editing your footage, it needs to transcode the MP4 into an intermediate codec format in real time. This transcoding process is done by the CPU or iGPU (in the case of Core i series CPUs) and NOT the GPU and is an extremely demanding task. The GPU job is to render LUTs, titles, transitions and color grading. The CPU does most of the transcoding work. The reason your iMac is smoother is because of Quicksync, which is a hardware MP4 transcoder and can transcode on the fly. Quicksync is not available for your Mac Pro Xeon, so it relies heavily on the CPU to do the job. Ideally, you should be transcoding the interframe MP4 file to an intraframe file like ProRes before you start editing anything, so I think where you are coming from is that you expect a Mac Pro 7,1 to work like a consumer desktop like an iMac. That's not how professionals work with their videos. We always transcode to an intermediate codec file to work and edit the media and not on a MP4 file.

I use a Mac Pro 5,1 myself and I always transcode interframe MP4 files to ProRes using my MacBook Air as it has Quicksync to my RAID 5 Mac Mini server and then I use my Mac Pro to edit the intraframe footages with zero lag and then later on use my MB Air to transcode back ProRes to MP4 using Quicksync.

 

[jccmaxon]

Do you have an old USB device or hub plugged in. USB is the pits when it misbehaves, creating lots of annoying interrupts.

To convert thunderbolt 1 (wd thunderbolt duo) use adapter official apple thunderbolt 2 to 3.

Some further questions: what codec is the footage? All H.264? It looks like the clip you did Get Info on in the Finder is H.264. If so, the T2 chip in the Mac Pro *ought* to be handling that decoding on the fly. However, I also noticed the dimensions are only "16 x 9", which is an aspect ratio, not a set of dimensions (like 1920 x 1080). So that's a little odd. I'm just wondering if there's some sort of mismatch or something FCPX doesn't like about that base track. Still, that wouldn't explain why a 12-core Mac Pro is getting tripped up where a 2013 iMac is not...

Do you have any effects or filters applied to the main track? That would compound the work that FCPX is having to do, along w/ the compositing of layers. Again, I wouldn't get why a 2013 iMac would do a better job if all else is equal.

After the first clip, when you start adding layers, I notice the timeline is un-rendered (dots at the top of the timeline window). Any chance the iMac has been previously given the "opportunity" to render everything in the background, so that it DOES play back smoothly where the Mac Pro does not? Might wanna check the background render settings on both setups.

video is 1920x1080. I captured with Avermedia ultra capture. Not use background render. The same that last imac.

 

[gabrielefx]

try to replicate a piece of the timeline on DaVinci Resolve, if it runs smooth then is a FCPX issue

 

[bsbeamer]

The iMac dGPU in this case is NVIDIA-based. Seriously doubt it has CUDA rendering with FCPX, but if your settings were imported/migrated vs. clean install there MAY be some conflict with NVIDIA Web Drivers/CUDA lingering somewhere.

 

[Casey P]

I see that your video files are mp4 and outside of the project. I think your problem might be a mix of the lack of the relatively poor performance of H.264 on the MacPro due to the lack of native decoding and the mp4 file. Your problem would definitely be solved by importing the files into the project and transcoding them. Even just allowing an initial render should allow smooth playback. I always import my files into the project. It might be that the import will rewrap the mp4 as a mov file and that fix whatever issue is going on. That is entirely a guess, though.

 

[h9826790]

Some further questions: what codec is the footage? All H.264? It looks like the clip you did Get Info on in the Finder is H.264. If so, the T2 chip in the Mac Pro *ought* to be handling that decoding on the fly. However, I also noticed the dimensions are only "16 x 9", which is an aspect ratio, not a set of dimensions (like 1920 x 1080). So that's a little odd. I'm just wondering if there's some sort of mismatch or something FCPX doesn't like about that base track. Still, that wouldn't explain why a 12-core Mac Pro is getting tripped up where a 2013 iMac is not...

Do you have any effects or filters applied to the main track? That would compound the work that FCPX is having to do, along w/ the compositing of layers. Again, I wouldn't get why a 2013 iMac would do a better job if all else is equal.

After the first clip, when you start adding layers, I notice the timeline is un-rendered (dots at the top of the timeline window). Any chance the iMac has been previously given the "opportunity" to render everything in the background, so that it DOES play back smoothly where the Mac Pro does not? Might wanna check the background render settings on both setups.

For HWAccel on 580X or Radeon VII, we can monitor that by using the OpenGL Driver Monitor. Not 100% sure if that's the same for 7,1, but worth to have a look. I still doubt if that's handle by the T2, or the dGPU.

If UVD isn't working when OP play a H264 video in the timeline, then something is wrong (either no HWAccel, or the T2 isn't working as expected. In both case, OP should contact Apple.

If UVD is working, then AMD HWAccel should be working. I just make a screen capture from my cMP. This is how it looks. The FCPX (10.14.8) project was setup with 1920x1080 @60FPS, playback original files with better quality, no background rendering or proxy etc. The upper layer is a H264 video in 4096x1152. The bottom layer is a transition from a 576x320 H264 video to a HEVC 3840x2160 video.

Hardware as per my signature. Yes, I know it is NOT the 7,1. But just want to show that a Radeon VII can handle the timeline pretty well even with multiple mixed resolutions H264 / HEVC videos in real time (and record the screen at the same time, if HWAccel is working properly). Anyway, the project and the bottom layer videos are stored on a SATA SSD, the upper layer video is stored on a HDD. So, hard drive speed isn't an issue either. Especially OP already try the internal NVMe.
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The iMac dGPU in this case is NVIDIA-based. Seriously doubt it has CUDA rendering with FCPX, but if your settings were imported/migrated vs. clean install there MAY be some conflict with NVIDIA Web Drivers/CUDA lingering somewhere.

Definitely no CUDA and NVDEC in FCPX
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MP4 is an interframe format, so before any video editing software like Final Cut ProX or Davinci Resolve Studio can begin editing your footage, it needs to transcode the MP4 into an intermediate codec format in real time. This transcoding process is done by the CPU or iGPU (in the case of Core i series CPUs) and NOT the GPU and is an extremely demanding task. The GPU job is to render LUTs, titles, transitions and color grading. The CPU does most of the transcoding work. The reason your iMac is smoother is because of Quicksync, which is a hardware MP4 transcoder and can transcode on the fly. Quicksync is not available for your Mac Pro Xeon, so it relies heavily on the CPU to do the job. Ideally, you should be transcoding the interframe MP4 file to an intraframe file like ProRes before you start editing anything, so I think where you are coming from is that you expect a Mac Pro 7,1 to work like a consumer desktop like an iMac. That's not how professionals work with their videos. We always transcode to an intermediate codec file to work and edit the media and not on a MP4 file.

I use a Mac Pro 5,1 myself and I always transcode interframe MP4 files to ProRes using my MacBook Air as it has Quicksync to my RAID 5 Mac Mini server and then I use my Mac Pro to edit the intraframe footages with zero lag and then later on use my MB Air to transcode back ProRes to MP4 using Quicksync.

That's not right. Quick Sync is just the Intel solution for HWAccel. For 5,1 and 7,1, we can have AMD UVD / VCE / VNC for HWAccel. Extra info at here

Activate AMD hardware acceleration

[For existing OpenCore users, you can always download my latest OpenCore package at post #1314 for update] Full HWAccel achieved now! Everything is covered in the OpenCore thread. The step by step tutorial to enable AMD hardware acceleration is now at here, but I strongly recommend you go...

forums.macrumors.com

Transcoding is NOT required to have smooth timeline playback as long as HWAccel is working.

 

[h9826790]

XFX cards ACROSS THE BOARD have compatibility issues with macOS. It's been well reported in this forum and many others. Radeon VII may be a different case (no manufacturer versions) but still would not recommend an XFX version over any other for macOS specific usage. As always, some people (yourself included) get XFX cards to work and others run into major issues.

Radeon VII has other issues and would personally not recommend using that particular GPU, especially if you're trying to troubleshoot an issue. The stock 580X config is where I'd start...

View attachment 894918

I have no objection about avoid XFX in general. However, OP was specifically asking about Radeon VII. I don't think we should make him has unnecessary confusion about "XFX Radeon VII may not work properly in macOS".

And that "other issues" is for that PCIe expander, not a general problem when use it on a cMP internally.

Radeon VII is officially supported by Apple in FCPX

Graphics card compatibility for Final Cut Pro, Motion, and Compressor - Apple Support (HK)

Learn which built-in and aftermarket graphics cards work with Final Cut Pro, Motion, and Compressor on Mac.

support.apple.com

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I see that your video files are mp4 and outside of the project. I think your problem might be a mix of the lack of the relatively poor performance of H.264 on the MacPro due to the lack of native decoding and the mp4 file. Your problem would definitely be solved by importing the files into the project and transcoding them. Even just allowing an initial render should allow smooth playback. I always import my files into the project. It might be that the import will rewrap the mp4 as a mov file and that fix whatever issue is going on. That is entirely a guess, though.

That can solve the problem. However, shouldn't be required.

1) there is no need to copy the video into the project. As long as the video stored on a hard drive that's fast enough, it won't cause any lag. For MP4, even USB thumb drive can be fast enough. Shouldn't be an issue.

2) the 7,1 should have H264 hardware decoding.

 

[bsbeamer]

I have no objection about avoid XFX in general. However, OP was specifically asking about Radeon VII. I don't think we should make him has unnecessary confusion about "XFX Radeon VII may not work properly in macOS".

OP specifically asked about the XFX Radeon VII:

This is s good option?

XFX Radeon VII 16GB HBM2, HDMI, 3X DP

Again, I'd personally avoid any XFX GPU for macOS usage. If you're using in Windows or on PC, they are generally fantastic GPUs. It's still pretty easy to find the ASRock version and many others.

 

[h9826790]

Again, I'd personally avoid any XFX GPU for macOS usage.

That's your personal opinion. I respect that.

However, the fact is, XFX Radeon VII works identical as any other Radeon VII. Then why give OP unnecessary trouble to find another card?

To make it clear, I am not against your opinion. But I think we should tell OP the fact, and let him decide what to do.

 

[lowendlinux]

I've been using an XFX Rx480gtr now for more than a few years before that I XFX r9 280 that went from the MP to the hackintosh.

I've read about a lot of heartburn with XFX on this forum but my experience has been fine now for many years

 

[bsbeamer]

Does seem that Hackintosh machines have less issues with XFX than authentic MP4,1 or MP4,1>MP5,1 or MP5,1 machines in the past. It might be related to the Hackintosh install method, or the workarounds that also enable hardware acceleration for those machines.

As for the OP, this exact issue they are troubleshooting is almost certainly not specifically with the current 580X GPU that shipped with the machine.

 

[vinegarshots]

Try re-encoding your source H264 files out of FCP and then try editing with those and see if it changes anything. May be some corruption of some sort in your files.

 

[awkward_eagle]

Just here to echo what others have said about editing h.264. Intel iSeries chips have QuickSync that does hardware h.264 decoding, similar to what Apple's Afterburner does for ProRes or RED's now discontinued Rocket card does for .r3d. Intel Xeons don't have QuickSync, so editing h.264 on an iMac Pro or Mac Pro isn't as smooth as it would be on an iMac or Macbook Pro with an i9. It makes sense that you're seeing the most stuttering on transitions or other applied effects since it has to decode the h.264 file and render the effect/transition simultaneously on the fly.

Codecs like Apple's ProRes are designed to solve this problem and are used in the professional world for camera capture and editing. The Mac Pro and FCP combo is very much meant to be a ProRes editing machine. That's why Final Cut Pro only allows rendering of the timeline into one of the ProRes flavors. For screen captured stuff I'd recommend ProRes 422 or 422 Proxy.

You really have three options :

1. Capture directly to ProRes if that's an option.

2. Convert all footage into ProRes before editing using something like Compressor or letting FCP do it on import.

3. Turn on Background Render in the FCP preferences and let the dotted line in the timeline fill in before playback.

It's been my experience so far that the current version of FCP handles ProRes so well that it almost never requires rendering at 4K, so I'm guessing it would be more than enough for HD.

 

[vinegarshots]

Just here to echo what others have said about editing h.264. Intel iSeries chips have QuickSync that does hardware h.264 decoding, similar to what Apple's Afterburner does for ProRes or RED's now discontinued Rocket card does for .r3d. Intel Xeons don't have QuickSync, so editing h.264 on an iMac Pro or Mac Pro isn't as smooth as it would be on an iMac or Macbook Pro with an i9. It makes sense that you're seeing the most stuttering on transitions or other applied effects since it has to decode the h.264 file and render the effect/transition simultaneously on the fly.

Codecs like Apple's ProRes are designed to solve this problem and are used in the professional world for camera capture and editing. The Mac Pro and FCP combo is very much meant to be a ProRes editing machine. That's why Final Cut Pro only allows rendering of the timeline into one of the ProRes flavors. For screen captured stuff I'd recommend ProRes 422 or 422 Proxy.

You really have three options :

1. Capture directly to ProRes if that's an option.

2. Convert all footage into ProRes before editing using something like Compressor or letting FCP do it on import.

3. Turn on Background Render in the FCP preferences and let the dotted line in the timeline fill in before playback.

It's been my experience so far that the current version of FCP handles ProRes so well that it almost never requires rendering at 4K, so I'm guessing it would be more than enough for HD.

I'm not sure that's it, though. I don't seem to have any odd performance issues editing h.264 in FCP on my iMac Pro. Even Premiere Pro handles it fine.

 

[bsbeamer]

I'm not sure that's it, though. I don't seem to have any odd performance issues editing h.264 in FCP on my iMac Pro. Even Premiere Pro handles it fine.

Premiere Pro has worked better with H.264 vs. FCPX for a long time, regardless of processor, GPU, etc. FCPX likes to transcode footage for best performance, and almost is required for some formats. It's all about processing on intake or export, and Premiere Pro can now transcode on import too (if you want to work that way).

 

[OkiRun]

I see that your video files are mp4 and outside of the project. I think your problem might be a mix of the lack of the relatively poor performance of H.264 on the MacPro due to the lack of native decoding and the mp4 file. Your problem would definitely be solved by importing the files into the project and transcoding them. Even just allowing an initial render should allow smooth playback. I always import my files into the project. It might be that the import will rewrap the mp4 as a mov file and that fix whatever issue is going on. That is entirely a guess, though.

This is the workflow I would try at this point too. Get those files imported into the project and transcode to ProRes. I would also set background rendering on again... and set to Better Performance... and let the Afterburner Card do its thing.

 

[jccmaxon]

Thank you very much! I use an initial render and now playback go perfect. Thanks

A question: 5700xt or radeon 7 for editing 4k in the future?

 

[h9826790]

If you render the timeline into ProRes, GPU is quite irrelevant to the timeline playback performance, that become the CPU’s job to decode.

However, Radeon VII etc can help render faster.

 

[awkward_eagle]

If you render the timeline into ProRes, GPU is quite irrelevant to the timeline playback performance, that become the CPU’s job to decode.

However, Radeon VII etc can help render faster.

Very true. The GPUs also come in handy if your source footage is already in ProRes. When applying effects and transitions the GPUs are used to render them on the fly allowing Background Render to be turned off if they're fast enough. This is one of the main advantages of an iMac Pro with sufficiently fast GPU, or to a greater degree the Mac Pro where you can stack GPUs.