Efficient Archival Strategies ( or, how I can't get anything right)

[OreoCookie]

Not true, In LR you can save the changes to an .xmp file, within a DNG or inside the file itself. This means you can use Bridge and look at the developed photos and they wil be the same as in LR.

… and that's only the case if your version of ACR is compatible. And you're locked into just another application (Bridge and ACR). So you're not independent of applications, you simply depend on different applications.

 

[OreoCookie]

Just remember that there are certainly other options out there and you dont even have to use Aperture or Lightroom if you dont want too. Everyone is different in regards to the system they prefer.

Agreed. Furthermore, I can't help the feeling that the problem is more fundamental than a specific app. Rather, I suspect it's not clear how the OP should structure his workflow as a whole (including how to structure his information).

 

[ajpl]

… and that's only the case if your version of ACR is compatible. And you're locked into just another application (Bridge and ACR). So you're not independent of applications, you simply depend on different applications.

Well you are never independent of applications if you want to view your RAW file, duh!
But my point was that the data is not locked in the LR databse, which you erroneously claimed it was. And it is possible for other developers to read that data for their developers if they so wish, not just Bridge.
The benefit of the sidecars is that I can use both a databse and a filebrowser to sort/file and develop my images. Where else can you use both excellent systems?

 

[ajpl]

Just remember that there are certainly other options out there and you dont even have to use Aperture or Lightroom if you dont want too. Everyone is different in regards to the system they prefer. The bottom line is there are a lot of options and you should at least give them all a try before making a final decision. Who knows that one app you didn't try just may end up being exactly what your looking for. The good thing is most apps have free demos that let you test out the software before buying it. Im actually surprised more people dont use some of the other programs that are out there like Extensis Portfolio. I actually prefer it over both Aperture and Lightroom.

Neither Aperture or Lighroom are actually good enough to be a complete filing system. They are RAW developers with a flawed library tacked on. Extensis is however designed to organise data, but where Aperture Bridge and LR should score higher is integration of filing and then doing work on the images you use programme to find.
Which is my point really, have a filing system that works anywhere with any software, do not buy a programme to do your filing for you as otherwise you are digging a big hole for yourself when the programme gets replaced by something else - which when you are talking about filing, it has to last for 30/40/50 yrs and that's just your lifetime. Software comes and goes as do businesses.

 

[OreoCookie]

Well you are never independent of applications if you want to view your RAW file, duh!
But my point was that the data is not locked in the databse, which you claimed it was. And it is possible for other developers to read that data for their developers if they so wish.

Of course you can view your RAW file, you can do that with the files in Aperture's library, too. It's just a bundle, a directory. It doesn't save files `in a database.' It uses a database to manage the files and track their properties, but all it does is create directories and subdirectories similar to iTunes.

In any case, if I access my RAW files directly, the work on and with the files is lost -- the point you continue to ignore. To retain this information, you have to find a mode to export your edited files. Your solution only works with specific apps (Lightroom, ACR and Bridge) which won't be around in 40 years. So you'll have to find a way to migrate, too. Or live with the loss of your edits, tags, etc.

There is no way you can have a strategy to organize your files that will work for 50 years to come. All you need is a strategy to migrate your data each time you have to. With Aperture or Lightroom, I export projects as images with sidecar files, for instance. The migration will take a few hours, but that's nothing compared to redoing years worth of work on my photos.

 

[miket019]

Neither Aperture or Lighroom are actually good enough to be a complete filing system...do not buy a programme to do your filing for you as otherwise you are digging a big hole for yourself

It is as simple as that.

Stop expecting sofware to do it for you, you will regret it.

Give yourself some time and organize your photos by folder with date of year-months-day. It will pay off in the long run.

 

[ChrisA]

In any case, if I access my RAW files directly, the work on and with the files is lost -- the point you continue to ignore. To retain this information, you have to find a mode to export your edited files.

This is the case with EVERY reasonable workflow. In every case I can think of you never edit a RAW file. In the standard Adobe Photoshop based work flow the raw file is converted to PSD format by Adobe Camera Raw and then edited in Photoshop. If you ever look at the raw file it will look just like it came from the camera.

Non-descructive editers do exacly the same thing except rether then saveing the edits in a PSD file, the edits them selves are recorded (all the mouse clicks you made while editing) and then when ever you look at the file those edits are re-applied. In either case the edits not not save in the raw file

In both cases the the work on and with the files is lost if you export the RAW file. It is best to think of the RAW file as a negative and JPG or PSD files as "prints". What Aperture save is the instructions for re-making the print.

 

[GotMyOrangeCrus]

Neither Aperture or Lighroom are actually good enough to be a complete filing system. They are RAW developers with a flawed library tacked on. Extensis is however designed to organise data, but where Aperture Bridge and LR should score higher is integration of filing and then doing work on the images you use programme to find.
Which is my point really, have a filing system that works anywhere with any software, do not buy a programme to do your filing for you as otherwise you are digging a big hole for yourself when the programme gets replaced by something else - which when you are talking about filing, it has to last for 30/40/50 yrs and that's just your lifetime. Software comes and goes as do businesses.

The software support doesn't have to last 30/40/50 years. The version of Extensis Portfolio I have right now is perfect for everything I do. I dont need any more upgrades, although if more come out I am sure ill take advantage. The Extensis App I have right now I can use until the day I die If I were so inclined. It does everything I need it to do and is 100% fast enough. Worst case scenario if the software went under and I was unable to port my databases onto another program, I would simply buy a couple 8 core MacPro's and use those for as long as I have too with the current version. I would be 100% ok with that. Basing your organizational system off of something like this doesnt make a lick of sense imo. Maybe if it was some new company or a new piece of software then I might see it but a company like Extensis and with a program as proven as portfolio is, sorry it just doesn't make sense to me.

You are right in regards to Lightroom and Aperture. They are editing software with organizational abilities tacked on and that is why I dont use them. I use an App that was designed from the ground up to handle these types of requirements. I dont organize and edit my pictures at the same time so I have absolutely no need for an application that does both. I have used photoshop since version 2.0 and I have never even once wished that PS would incorporate an organizational system. I use scanning software to scan, editing software for editing and organizational software to organize. Its that simple. IMO its better to keep them separate as the best software is always the software that focuses on a specific task. I have been using Portfolio for the last 8 years and will be using it for as long as I am still shooting pictures. At this point I dont ever see switching and again if they never upgraded again I would still be ok. The App is everything it needs to be right now and I highly suggest that people in here give it a spin before deciding something as important as organizational systems. Lightroom and Aperture simply dont compare. Maybe in the future they will, if you want to take that chance and work with a weaker system until then, well that is your choice. Ill be sticking with Portfolio.

 

[termina3]

The software support doesn't have to last 30/40/50 years.

No, but it'd be nice if you had a file hierarchy that would survive Aperture failing in three years. Anyways, it makes plenty of sense to have a yyyy_mm_dd-name file setup. And it's not like it's difficult to have Aperture do this for you on import...

You are right in regards to Lightroom and Aperture. They are editing software with organizational abilities tacked on and that is why I dont use them.

I disagree. You have it backwards; Lightroom and Ap2 are organizational apps with editing tacked on. It makes no sense the Lightroom would be an editing app with organization tacked on; why does Adobe continue to produce Photoshop?

I don't know anything about Portfolio. But I am glad it works for you and you're happy with it. I'll take a look.

 

[GotMyOrangeCrus]

No, but it'd be nice if you had a file hierarchy that would survive Aperture failing in three years. Anyways, it makes plenty of sense to have a yyyy_mm_dd-name file setup. And it's not like it's difficult to have Aperture do this for you on import...



I disagree. You have it backwards; Lightroom and Ap2 are organizational apps with editing tacked on. It makes no sense the Lightroom would be an editing app with organization tacked on; why does Adobe continue to produce Photoshop?

I don't know anything about Portfolio. But I am glad it works for you and you're happy with it. I'll take a look.

Well, I dont use Aperture for that and wouldn't recommend anyone else use it that way either. I use portfolio and that has been on the market for a long time and to base the decision on whether to use it on the fact they they might fold as a company in a few years simply doesn't make any sense.

As for Lightroom and Aperture, they were both designed as pseudo editor/organizational apps and I think they suffer in both areas because of that fact. The Photoshop/Portfolio combo is vastly superior imo. Again this is a personal thing and everyone has a different opinion. My point was that people should give everything a try before deciding something as important as this because as I have said it sucks switching it up especially when you have a large collection.

 

[termina3]

it sucks switching it up especially when you have a large collection.

amen to that...

 

[ajpl]

The software support doesn't have to last 30/40/50 years.

I was talking about a filing system that lasts, because software doesn't! A very different thing.
If you read my posts more carefully, you'd see that I'd recomended one that will outlast any software you may care to use and will work with any operating system.

 

[ajpl]

I disagree. You have it backwards; Lightroom and Ap2 are organizational apps with editing tacked on. It makes no sense the Lightroom would be an editing app with organization tacked on; why does Adobe continue to produce Photoshop?

Because it does a completely different job. And LR is a RAW editor with a database library attached. ACR existed long before LR did. And the Develop module is simply ACR with a tweaked UI.

 

[ajpl]

Of course you can view your RAW file, you can do that with the files in Aperture's library, too. It's just a bundle, a directory. It doesn't save files `in a database.' It uses a database to manage the files and track their properties, but all it does is create directories and subdirectories similar to iTunes.

I was talking about the metadata edits, not the RAW file data. And I know how a database works, ta.

In any case, if I access my RAW files directly, the work on and with the files is lost -- the point you continue to ignore.

Uh no, the opposite, I pointed that out issue with Aperture.

Your solution only works with specific apps (Lightroom, ACR and Bridge) which won't be around in 40 years. So you'll have to find a way to migrate, too. Or live with the loss of your edits, tags, etc.

But the development info is with the files so as I said above, in theory any RAW developer could parse the info. XMP is non-proprietry.
And it wasn't a solution, I was simply pointing out that the edit information was not trapped in the database as you suggested.

There is no way you can have a strategy to organize your files that will work for 50 years to come.

Utter nonsense. How I've organised my files is not programme or OS dependent, therefore it will last far longer than I will.