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Dalt

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 29, 2016
10
4
At this late date Apple has done permanent and lasting damage to their brand. No amount of so called refocus is going to earn back what they lost anytime soon. I do not see that there is a single executive at Apple that realizes the long term financial consequence of this mistake.

That's why I'm patiently waiting. I'm also disappointed from Apple - they stopped Aperture, monitor division, router division, no hardware refreshment - just emoji's and thinny shiny mac books. Im seriously consider option to move to PC with all negative aspects of this, if there is no serious step into PRO market - real hardware, real tools and real partnership - No, I do not want emoji's instead of Pro software! And if I decide to move to PC, they will lose me as loyal customer with all the hardware, I bought from them (and I planned to refresh at some time) - iMac, MacBook Pro, Time Machine, AppleTV, iPhone....

I really do not understand executives at Apple. Are they realize that Pro is not just Pro, but its also huge advertising or they do not want us anymore, since iPhone sells very well...
 

steve123

macrumors 65816
Aug 26, 2007
1,155
719
I really do not understand executives at Apple. Are they realize that Pro is not just Pro, but its also huge advertising or they do not want us anymore, since iPhone sells very well...

You and me both! And probably 10,000 other influential mac users. It is hard for me to recommend Apple Mac products to my circle when I am loosing confidence. $200B in the bank but they cannot afford to keep supporting Aperture? Unbelievable disregard for the people that made Apple. Steve Jobs had a real talent for cultivating an almost cult like following. Apple no longer has that creative talent. It seems to me that Apple appears to be relying on the dedication of the cult that Steve created. Apple has been making massive withdrawals from the emotional bank account. The bank account is nearing empty and the consequences of that are coming.

What did Steve warn us about? Rise of the Bozo's? You judge if he was right.

All that said, I hope they get their act together. I still believe the Mac is still the best.
 

Kcetech1

macrumors 6502
Nov 24, 2016
258
120
Alberta Canada
I don't do much photography ... mostly just screwing around at home and like you guys loved Aperture. I shifted to using both Lightroom ( I have the whole Adobe suite as I use PPro and PS all the time ) and C1P versions 9 and 10. 9 sucked on OSX but 10 is FAR FAR better, 9 and 10 were both fantastic in windows 7 and 10

since for my video editing, VFX and animation I was forced over to PC I run both platforms now and like the 10,000 others Steve 123 mentioned, the dark side isn't so bad if you do it right and don't mind a small learning curve... it does in my case especially save a lot of time and money.
 

Fabmac

macrumors regular
Apr 5, 2017
109
58
Aperture is gone by years now, I use lightroom and it's almost perfect.
About the pc and apple hardware it really comes down to personal choice,for me OS X is completely worth it.
I completely love how apple computers work and how long the last, i have an 2007 iMac around and with an ssd it still a good computer.
Design and low maintenance and the secure os, I would never go back to an pc.
 

neutrino23

macrumors 68000
Feb 14, 2003
1,881
391
SF Bay area
I too have been hanging on to Aperture, but I'm ready to bail. I think I'll switch to using Affinity Photo for my digital darkroom and maybe Graphic Converter for the browser, sorting, deleting, and simple edits.

I like the idea of a one time payment. Affinity Photo gets high marks. Anyone here have experience with it?
 

MarsViolet

macrumors 6502
Mar 6, 2003
415
361
Hello,

I have small photographic business - shooting weddings. I shoot weddings with two Sony cameras - Sony Alpha SLT A99.

For processing photos, I have build ecosystem around Aperture - Aperture holds photos + basic corrections, Nik Software for some tonning and Pixelmator for advanced editing. I've tried combination Lightroom+Nik+Photoshop, but I was disappointed from overall performance, so I decide to stay with current setup, hopping that Apple will resurrect Aperture...

With update 10.12.4 Apple bring support to newest Sony A Mount camera - Sony A99-2. Since, I have plans to change my bodies, I go to the store and make some test pictures...

Surprisingly, Aperture does want to open raw files from A99-2. It shows Unknown Image Format. At the same time Photos import raw files without any problems. I tried to re-install latest patch, to use another user, to do same on my laptop but without any success.

Tomorrow, I will call Apple support as my last and despaired try, but...

At the same time my Apple gear is 5 years old, so instead of invest in Apple, I may do this in other direction...

One app to consider is Exposure X2. It has a huge variety of VSCO/Nik-style presets built-in, and excellent image quality. No database-driven catalog system, but it does have good tools for organizing, rating, sorting and finding photos.
 

steve123

macrumors 65816
Aug 26, 2007
1,155
719
I too have been hanging on to Aperture, but I'm ready to bail. I think I'll switch to using Affinity Photo for my digital darkroom and maybe Graphic Converter for the browser, sorting, deleting, and simple edits.

I like the idea of a one time payment. Affinity Photo gets high marks. Anyone here have experience with it?

Unfortunately, my experience with Affinity apps has been disappointing. The apps themselves have great potential but filling the need for an Aperture replacement is not their priority. I am not expecting a DAM from Affinity anytime soon. Maybe 4 years from now if ever. My experience is that I rarely use the apps (i have both Photos and Designer). I also have an older version of Photoshop (5.5) and I do prefer to use Photos rather than Photoshop but that may because of the security concerns of running Java 6 when running PS.

So far, my hope is that Luminar will do something interesting. And they have said they intend to release a DAM in 2017. I downloaded the trial of the app as it exists today and, for editing, it really does seem to be a similar paradigm as Aperture. Here is hoping the DAM is as well. Time will tell if we can be patient for a little while longer.
 
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fde101

macrumors newbie
Apr 18, 2017
25
36
Personally, I'm working toward using On1 Photo RAW (https://www.on1.com/products/photo-raw/) as my DAM / catalog tool and primary RAW developer, with DXO Optics Pro (http://www.dxo.com/us/photography/photo-software/dxo-opticspro) as another RAW developer for more difficult cases, and using Affinity Photo for more fine-grained editing on those photos that need it. I need to use the Sigma software for developing the RAWs from my old Sigma camera (as nothing else seems to get those right), and would eventually like to add Capture One to my arsenal for those times when I might benefit from its strengths as well.

But for the majority of pictures, planning on working in On1, then branching out to the other programs when that makes sense.

I'm avoiding Adobe because of the subscription-only model, which I do not like. It makes sense to subscribe to content, but not to software.

If you look at the Affinity forums, they indicate they do have plans for a DAM package in the future, but no real indication of when; they are prioritizing a publishing program right now, and really I think that makes more sense for them right now.
 

steve123

macrumors 65816
Aug 26, 2007
1,155
719
If you look at the Affinity forums, they indicate they do have plans for a DAM package in the future, but no real indication of when; they are prioritizing a publishing program right now, and really I think that makes more sense for them right now.

If you dig deeper into the forums, they have had plans for a DAM for more than two years now. In the mean time, Windows, iPad, Publisher app and a bunch of other things have distracted them from achieving this. Heck, you would think that in more than two years, they would have added arrowheads to their Designer app ... it has been at the top of their priority list and a highly requested feature after all. Alas, Windows, iPad, Publisher and other things have not permitted adding this simple feature that even exists in Preview. Their explanation, arrowheads are hard. Go figure.

I threw some money at Affinity in the hope they would emerge as a contender to Adobe. I think if you have a very narrow use case, Affinity apps would be great for you.

For my use, I have lost all confidence in them.
 

fde101

macrumors newbie
Apr 18, 2017
25
36
If you dig deeper into the forums, they have had plans for a DAM for more than two years now.

Even if the DAM solution were their priority for those two years, a small team could easily take longer than that to develop that type of application, particularly while maintaining the existing applications at the same time. Their products so far in the Affinity line have been based around a graphics engine which has been shared among the different products (Designer and Photo, and presumably will be by Publisher as well). The DAM is a totally different type of software which will require a totally different type of engine to be in place (possibly in conjunction with the existing one if they are going to support edits/previews from within its interface)... and it has not been their top priority, as they have indicated when it was mentioned on the forums, so I suspect it is at least a few more years out - that doesn't mean it won't happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

As I indicated, I think the publishing program is a more logical next step for them at the moment anyway. It builds on their existing strengths and if they are continuing to share the underlying engine is likely to result in trickle-down improvements to the other (existing) programs along the way. Photo, Designer, Publisher is a solid trio of offerings, even if they never produce the DAM. Adobe went far longer without one than the Affinity team has been in existence.

you would think that in more than two years, they would have added arrowheads to their Designer app ... it has been at the top of their priority list and a highly requested feature after all. Alas, Windows, iPad, Publisher and other things have not permitted adding this simple feature that even exists in Preview. Their explanation, arrowheads are hard.

The roadmaps they post are not in priority order and they don't get them all into a single release. I can see that something like arrowheads may be more complex to fit into an existing engine depending on how it was designed: remember that the lines aren't always straight, and that various transformations can be done on them; at what point does the arrowhead curve with the line? If you scale the line, at what point does the arrowhead scale with it? There are probably a myriad of details that need to be accounted for to make sure they are drawn and manipulated correctly, can be converted to an outline as needed, etc... while I agree that I would have expected them to have been in place a bit sooner, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on that one, and it is not the end of the world.

For my use, I have lost all confidence in them.

Perhaps for your use - I can't argue with that; no one product is perfect for all of us... personally I think what they have accomplished is commendable (I have worked on a few large software projects - not any of the Affinity programs, but others - the tradeoffs in design often result in things that seem simple on the surface being much harder to integrate into a design because of choices that were made earlier in the project; that is something they all have in common - a feature may be trivial to implement with one design and almost impossible with another even if the software appears very similar on the surface).

Good, Fast, Cheap - pick two; you can't have all three. The price being as low as it is (Cheap), and having a small number of people working on it, they are emphasizing the quality of the product (Good) over rushing things out the door (Fast) - I kind of like it that way. If you prefer Good and Fast, stick with Adobe, Corel, and the like. If you prefer Fast and Cheap... there are plenty of free options out there.

The Adobe stuff has been around a lot longer than Affinity so they have had much more time to work on those things. They have some decent products, but the subscription model is a turn-off. I have CS6 Master Collection, but I won't go to CC, so I have been transitioning away from the few things I was actually using Adobe for, and have been very happy with the Affinity products so far.
 
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Dalt

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 29, 2016
10
4
Two weeks later, I would like to share what I found in my journey to find replacement of Aperture:
  1. Lightroom - awful DAM, not bad, but slow at some moments process module. Expensive.
  2. Luminar - no DAM at all, process part is not bad, but changes are not in real time.
  3. On1 - very slow;
  4. Capture One - not bad DAM, very good process module. Since I'm shooting with Sony, I bought PRO version for just 50 Euro, which is very good deal. So, this is my choice.

Pictures below are from yesterday with basic corrections and some color grading:

DSC01394.jpg DSC01513.jpg
 
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daflake

macrumors 6502a
Apr 8, 2008
920
4,329
That's why I'm patiently waiting. I'm also disappointed from Apple - they stopped Aperture, monitor division, router division, no hardware refreshment - just emoji's and thinny shiny mac books. Im seriously consider option to move to PC with all negative aspects of this, if there is no serious step into PRO market - real hardware, real tools and real partnership - No, I do not want emoji's instead of Pro software! And if I decide to move to PC, they will lose me as loyal customer with all the hardware, I bought from them (and I planned to refresh at some time) - iMac, MacBook Pro, Time Machine, AppleTV, iPhone....

I really do not understand executives at Apple. Are they realize that Pro is not just Pro, but its also huge advertising or they do not want us anymore, since iPhone sells very well...

Cosidering this thread is all about the negative aspects of Apple, I think that you may find the PC side isn't as bad as you think. ;) I love using a Mac, but I also have Windows and Linux boxes and find that they aren't as bad as many try to make them out to be. All systems have nuances that you have to learn to work with, it is just the way it is.

I miss Aperature as well, but gave up on it long ago.
 

Digitalclips

macrumors 65816
Mar 16, 2006
1,475
36
Sarasota, Florida
Ok. I had call with Apple Enterprise support (Aperture) engineer and the guy told me following:

This is list with Aperture supported cameras http://www.apple.com/aperture/specs/raw.html and there will be NO more cameras added to it. The last modify date of the document is from july 2016.

So, if I want to use this new camera from Sony, I should change my workflow, because Aperture cant read the files...


Even being on the list doesn't mean a particular camera's RAW file can be read it seems. It's now 2017, August 12th to be exact. I shoot Canon professionally and thankfully I'm still OK in Aperture. Bad news is I just bought a new toy, a Lumix FX2500 and even though it is there in Apple's list as supported with RAW in Aperture it isn't. Aperture cannot open the RAW files. Like you I always assumed RAW was at the system level not on a application level. This sucks as nothing else comes close to Aperture and I've tried everything. The folks behind Infinity Photo have long been rumored to be working on a DAM but nothing as yet.
 

L Caputo

macrumors 6502
Aug 11, 2015
404
279
Even being on the list doesn't mean a particular camera's RAW file can be read it seems. It's now 2017, August 12th to be exact. I shoot Canon professionally and thankfully I'm still OK in Aperture. Bad news is I just bought a new toy, a Lumix FX2500 and even though it is there in Apple's list as supported with RAW in Aperture it isn't. Aperture cannot open the RAW files. Like you I always assumed RAW was at the system level not on a application level. This sucks as nothing else comes close to Aperture and I've tried everything. The folks behind Infinity Photo have long been rumored to be working on a DAM but nothing as yet.
As Aperture is no longer supported by Apple when new cameras are released then Apple will only allow raw support in Preview and Photos, Aperture gets passed over even though Camera RAW is installed at System level.
you could download Adobes DNG Converter (free) and convert your Panasonics images to .dng and import them to Aperture that way.
 

smirking

macrumors 68040
Aug 31, 2003
3,942
4,009
Silicon Valley
Two weeks later, I would like to share what I found in my journey to find replacement of Aperture:
  1. Capture One - not bad DAM, very good process module. Since I'm shooting with Sony, I bought PRO version for just 50 Euro, which is very good deal. So, this is my choice.
Great photos! How are you finding Capture One Pro after some more time with it? I'm finding that I like it very very much and that the processing in it is so good that I've been able to use it to rescue some old photos that were in my outtakes pile. I found it to be a game changer for me, but I'm mostly a hobbyist so I never went through great pains to touch up most of my shots. Capture One Pro makes the touch up and post processing work so easy that I'm able to fine tune my images in ways that I never could before.

I'm excited how much better my photos look. Being forced off of Aperture was one of the best things that ever happened to my photography.

On the down side, I'm still dealing with issues stemming from catalog conversion from Aperture to Capture One Pro. I've finally moved just about my entire catalog from the past ten years over and have the images completely decoupled from Aperture now so that they perform better in Capture One Pro. That was a lot of work and resulted in a lot of images accidentally getting disconnected from the catalog and having to be manually reattached. Ugh.
 
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