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You will do as Apple intended: throw out your 3-4 year old $4000 Mac Pro and buy a new one. And you will like it!

Brought to you by the Simple Answers To Simple Questions Department.
Hehe, It's the Apple way! :p

This richness of choice is coming to a complete halt and fans of the iTube don't seem to mind at all. They have much faith in Thunderbolt but I am very skeptical.

In my case I'm actually expecting a price fitting that of such a "disposable system design". So I'm only a fan if the price-point is on target. Otherwise no, I'll be opting out of all Apple products. Because to me all other Apple products from the iPhone to the iPad, to the Mini to the iMac is just junk with a nice GUI. None of them fit my needs or expectations and all of them are over-priced for what ya get - IMO of course. :p

Until the price is announced, I can hope the MP6,1 will be the exception. :)
 
if Apple stays in course with almost or no upgradeable computers. But that will be a loss. I am not a fan of integrated graphics, Intel or not. Not so a fan of laptop GPUs in desktop machines.

The new Mac Pro is not using Integrated GPUs and is not using laptop GPUs in the new Mac Pro. I don't think you understand what an integrated GPU is. An Integrated GPU utilizes a portion of a computer's system RAM rather than dedicated graphics memory. Additionally an IGPU is usually integrated in the chipset hence the name integrated.
 
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Yup I did read that article yesterday and sales continue to decline for PCs and Macs. I was just saying the PC market is still larger than Apple's market today.

Actually, just the PC desktop-only market is larger than Apple's (Laptops+iMacs+minis+MacPros) market...


...by roughly 2:1 in the USA and at least 3:1 worldwide.


-hh
 
Apple wouldn't even offer significant video card upgrades for Mac Pro towers with simple PCIe slots, and demand was insanely huge.

There is little to zero evidence that demand was insanely huge. Severely out of balance supply/demand typically brings more suppliers. There were not any 3rd party vendors stumbling over themselves to provide solutions for the Mac Pro market.


You want to know how much Apple cares about upgrades? 2009 Mac Pros ALL have an SMC bug that causes the PCIe/PSU fans to spin up to midrange speeds with any video card upgrade, even the OEM Apple video cards sold at the Apple Store!

Again, in normal procedures bugs go through triage to be prioritized by impact. Far more likely this didn't get fixed because it did not impact that many users relative to other bugs on the queue.






So now Apple will suddenly offer a worldwide service for performing complex upgrades to old hardware expressly designed to limit upgradability?

If it was $600M/yr business then yes. That would generate about $600M more per year than fixitng that bug would. It is a revenue, rather than cost, center.




If Apple wanted to offer video card upgrades for a new Mac Pro, they would have designed it so Joe Sixpack could visit an Apple Store with $600 in his pocket and walk out with a video card he could install within five minutes without any tools. You want to know what such a design would look like? Check it out here.

If that was a successful growth business for Apple they would have tracked that business with more timely upgrades. They didn't.

The fact is the underground hack video card market is where a signficant number of buyers were. Very few wanted to pay anywhere near $600 for a video card. The few vendors who did put in the extra work were largely undercut by folks who hijacked the work and undercut both the 3rd party vendor and Apple on the revenue. So no that wasn't a big motivator for Apple to keep the same model going.

The reality with the new Mac Pro is that the primary replacement card vendor is Apple. Unless folks present a case to Apple that it is a profitable business to be in they won't do it. This really isn't all that big a change from the current set up where the default BTO cards are the primary cards variants sold.









The "mainstream model" is a standard for good reasons: it enables users to upgrade video cards on any tower with PCIe graphics. It's a valuable feature because it enables the buyer to prolong the usefulness of an expensive computer. It's innovative in that it promotes GPU innovation among competitors offering video card upgrades.

Promoting competition is not innovative in and of itself. That is a different dimension. The mainstream model is standard is largely because that is the way things got done with the limited amount of integration available. It is the same form that was in place before could do things like laptops, handhelds , and tablets.

People vote with their dollars. Where dollars are being increasingly being poured in now is not with box-with-slots. People have higher value on the products they buy as opposed don't buy.


You seem thinking of the video card design of the iTrash as being somehow innovative, or better than the "mainstream".

That's your connotation, not mine. The video card design is following basic market trends (i.e., what people are buying). Apple is not trying to cover as many folks as possible with their product. Since the return of Jobs they have consistently gone after selected subsets of PC users. The argument that Apple "has to" offer product XYZ because all the other PC vendors are offering XYZ has not so much to do with innovation as focus.



Apple's "innovation" is in forcing users to buy new workstations instead of upgrading components.

That is your opinion. I doubt you have real broadly sampled quantitative data to back that up. The broad "flattening" sales trend in the overall PC market and even more so in the workstation market is that for increasingly larger sets of users the PC/Workstation they have is good enough for large blocks of time. The components are flattening out also. AMD and Nvidia graphics segments "print money" of high mark up pro cards.... not on overall market.

ProRevenue_575px.jpg

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6137/the-amd-firepro-w9000-w8000-review-part-1/3


The unified thermal core has no benefit to the user except for enabling a tinier Mac Pro.

Presuming not overloaded in most configurations, it has a few number of moving parts. If there are usage patterns were not all three are 100% loaded at once it should run cooler with lower complexity.

No merits other the origami effect is more than a bit of underevaluation.


There are numerous video card models with silent coolers that fit in a standard PCIe slot, so the iTrash isn't breaking any sound barriers.

I doubt you are equating the TDP constraints of the cards to these. Apple-to-Oranges solutions don't really hold much water. Apple's solution is not a passive one. Have no idea why you are comparing to one.

And it isn't about individual component it is about overall system noise. ( yes there are just as quiet systems but how they get to that state is also a factor. Making noise and then spending alot of effort to cover it back up isn't addressing root cause issues. ).


From the looks of it, the iTrash will have a substantially lower BOM than the Mac Pro tower.

I have no idea why you would think so. Other than not being a dual CPU package model, in a single CPU package to single CPU package comparison Apple didn't drop a single highest cost component. In fact depending upon how the GPUs are priced may have added an additional one. This is not a "goose the profit margins higher" move. Not by a long shot. The price points are probably going to around the same range as the previous single CPU package Mac Pro's and the high end BTO options go a bit higher.


Dropping empty space doesn't save a ton of BOM costs.

ODD. no. Multiple fans. no. Swapping a relatively mid range HDD for a PCI-e SSD solution, that is a BOM cost lowering move? Not even hardly.
Neither is swapping 1 FW controller and two standard PCIe socket connectors for three Thunderbolt controllers.


My guess is that it's profit margins will break new records for Apple, and so will shortness of buyers' upgrade cycles. Or maybe they'll just give up and use Windows. ;)

Your guess without seeing the prices, or even projecting them, don't really amount to much. There is no way to get to margin unless have price.
 
No company, much less Apple, is going to offer an upgrade service to make complex upgrades to old products so buyers can avoid purchase new products.

Well, they used to. I remember in particular my blue & white G3 that I upgraded the ram, video, hard drive, and cpu. They actually designed it to make it easy to upgrade. I ran that thing into the proverbial ground.

Of course, at the rate things are going, all we'll have in the future is dumb terminals to access our mainframe accounts, sorry, cloud services. When they start billing by CPU cycles again, then we'll really have come full circle.
 
Why didn't they just use a G4 cube form factor, the cube had 3 RAM slots, AGP and PCI slots, an upgradeable CPU?

The Cube only had one AGP slot, no PCI slots. It also wasn't a normal AGP slot. It only fit certain cards.

Apple wouldn't even offer significant video card upgrades for Mac Pro towers with simple PCIe slots, and demand was insanely huge.

Errrr...
http://store.apple.com/us/product/M...grade-kit-for-mac-pro-(mid-2010-or-early-2009)
 
Yup I did read that article yesterday and sales continue to decline for PCs and Macs. I was just saying the PC market is still larger than Apple's market today.

It is always going to be relatively much larger. That is a reality that the Macs in general and especially the Mac Pro has to live in. The Mac Pro's 1-3% (or less ) of the Mac's 6-7% of the overall legacy PC form factor market places the Mac Pro only discrete card and other model specific components in the less than 1% (i.e., 0% if round to closest whole percentage point ) of the market. That is actually an issue when throwing around how the open market is going to solve ills. The open market tends not to solve 0% of the market ills because there are no market forces that push it in that direction.

As a group, Macs have some minor sway with market forces. Individually few, if any, models have significant overall market influence. They can leverage market trends, but not market markers by themselves. That is likely one reason why the Mac Pro is moving slightly closer to what the rest of the Mac line up is doing rather than moving farther away.
 
In my case I'm actually expecting a price fitting that of such a "disposable system design". So I'm only a fan if the price-point is on target.

I agree that a good price point will placate people. And it would solve the GPU upgrade issue--if the price is low enough, just get a whole new MP. But Apple is known for the exact opposite--high price points.

Also, a low price point isn't really a replacement for the richness of choice we are experiencing in GPUs right now. For example those X-Plane geeks that like the 4GB model, or those with strong CUDA workflows, or the ability to drop in a Titan, or the availability of cheap fast video cards to drop in to replace a dead GPU.

I suppose it's possible Apple could offer a plethora of video card options, but it seems extremely unlikely to me.

I think the iTube is beautiful and cool, but as far as GPUs, I feel like it's unquestionably a big loss even though we haven't seen pricing and options yet.
 
I agree that a good price point will placate people. And it would solve the GPU upgrade issue--if the price is low enough, just get a whole new MP. But Apple is known for the exact opposite--high price points.

Also, a low price point isn't really a replacement for the richness of choice we are experiencing in GPUs right now. For example those X-Plane geeks that like the 4GB model, or those with strong CUDA workflows, or the ability to drop in a Titan, or the availability of cheap fast video cards to drop in to replace a dead GPU.

I suppose it's possible Apple could offer a plethora of video card options, but it seems extremely unlikely to me.

I think the iTube is beautiful and cool, but as far as GPUs, I feel like it's unquestionably a big loss even though we haven't seen pricing and options yet.

I really don't see 3rd party OEM making a whole lot of card in that proprietary format. There is just not enough of a market to make it profitable. The nMP may get some reference board directly from AMD or NVidia but I don't see eVGA, MSI or Gigabyte jumping on this market with their top of the line models. They didn't do it for the old mac pro which used standard PCIe...
 
I really don't see 3rd party OEM making a whole lot of card in that proprietary format. There is just not enough of a market to make it profitable. The nMP may get some reference board directly from AMD or NVidia but I don't see eVGA, MSI or Gigabyte jumping on this market with their top of the line models. They didn't do it for the old mac pro which used standard PCIe...

The GPU in many iMacs is replaceable/upgradeable post purchase.

They use an MXM style of some sort or another.

The Mac ones have a different firmware and cost a FORTUNE.

I would feel safe saying that 99.99% of iMacs will go to the landfill with whatever GPU they came with.

Here is why:

http://www.dvwarehouse.com/index.ph...arch_in_description=1&keyword=imac+video+card

SInce they are specific to iMac, nobody makes or sells them except Apple repair or tear down places.

So a 4850 is still going for $388.

And this is a quick search, I'm sure Apple has even higher prices for these cards. (their famous "never lower a price" pledge)

I have been testing some new EFI cards we are about to intro, a GT640 for Mac Pro.

I realized the numbers I was seeing in benchies were basically same as 8800GT from 2008.

So bottom of line today keeps up with top of line from 2008. (It also has 2GB RAM vs 512Mb in 8800)

SO imagine if you had a 2008 Mac Pro and the 8800GT was WELDED in, the machine would be pretty anemic today. Instead you can go online and ordered a GTX680 and have full function in your 2008.

And THAT is why having proprietary GPUs is going to mean iTrashCans will have shorter useful life. 99.99% will likely be converted to REAL trash cans and have their original GPU in when they do.

In 5 years those FirePros will be just as outdated as 8800 is today, equal to bottom of line. And the ONLY way to upgrade will be if Apple LETS you buy something else, AT THEIR FULL RETAIL PRICE NO MATTER HOW OUTDATED.
 
The GPU in many iMacs is replaceable/upgradeable post purchase.

They use an MXM style of some sort or another.

The Mac ones have a different firmware and cost a FORTUNE.

I would feel safe saying that 99.99% of iMacs will go to the landfill with whatever GPU they came with.

Here is why:

http://www.dvwarehouse.com/index.ph...arch_in_description=1&keyword=imac+video+card

SInce they are specific to iMac, nobody makes or sells them except Apple repair or tear down places.

So a 4850 is still going for $388.

And this is a quick search, I'm sure Apple has even higher prices for these cards. (their famous "never lower a price" pledge)

I have been testing some new EFI cards we are about to intro, a GT640 for Mac Pro.

I realized the numbers I was seeing in benchies were basically same as 8800GT from 2008.

So bottom of line today keeps up with top of line from 2008. (It also has 2GB RAM vs 512Mb in 8800)

SO imagine if you had a 2008 Mac Pro and the 8800GT was WELDED in, the machine would be pretty anemic today. Instead you can go online and ordered a GTX680 and have full function in your 2008.

And THAT is why having proprietary GPUs is going to mean iTrashCans will have shorter useful life. 99.99% will likely be converted to REAL trash cans and have their original GPU in when they do.

In 5 years those FirePros will be just as outdated as 8800 is today, equal to bottom of line. And the ONLY way to upgrade will be if Apple LETS you buy something else, AT THEIR FULL RETAIL PRICE NO MATTER HOW OUTDATED.

Point, set, match...
 
And THAT is why having proprietary GPUs is going to mean iTrashCans will have shorter useful life. 99.99% will likely be converted to REAL trash cans and have their original GPU in when they do.

The 2013 Mac Pro is going to be the first Mac Pro to have a proprietary GPU? I thought I heard complaining on these forums for years that the existing Mac Pros had proprietary GPUs! Must have just been imagining that...
 
The 2013 Mac Pro is going to be the first Mac Pro to have a proprietary GPU? I thought I heard complaining on these forums for years that the existing Mac Pros had proprietary GPUs! Must have just been imagining that...

you were, have a look at thread at top

pedantic nit picking doesn't change reality

right now, just about any Nvidia card can be dropped in a Mac Pro and work

That door is closing
 
Yes it would be nice if this new Mac had PCIe slots or designed for daughterboards to be added in but let's face it - the Mac Pro is gone.

What we have here is the new Mac Mini Pro. This new machine has far more in common with a Mac Mini than a Mac Pro. For real MP power users, I honestly (no joke) feel bad for you as MP owners waited long and hard for that new MP with Thunderbolt, USB3, perhaps the latest PCI standard and more and instead got this SUPER MAC MINI or Mac Mini Pro instead.

For me, the new "Mac Pro" is a fine fit for what I do (mostly photo work) and having had in the past an MP, I find this new machine as stated - aint a Mac Pro.
 
Yes it would be nice if this new Mac had PCIe slots or designed for daughterboards to be added in...

We don't know that it's not. The GPU cards may be easy to replace/exchange or they may even be soldered into place. While I believe the likelihood of the latter is just about nil it remains a fact that we just don't know yet. Nor do we have any idea of what GPU options will be available at release, a year after, and two years after - let alone three or four years later when we might actually want to upgrade and more accurately, 5 or 6 years later when we actually need to.
 
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Live in the now :)

I go back as far as Motorola/386 chips.

Things change my friend, go with the flow.

I agree. I made a few mistakes in my purchasing history, namely. I read a number of music tech magazines for years and having an Atari ST meant I was used to seeing my platform of choice used by artists with an enviable amount of synths and equipment but I could never afford any of that equipment.

I bought a G3 Desktop as a refurb just after the B&W G3s came out and having used Macs at work for several years in DTP already, when they got one at work, I got the shock of my life when I saw how much faster it was than my G3, even though the clockspeed was only 50Mhz more than my 300Mhz of my system. The only reason I got a Beige G3 was because it had a floppy drive and I could move sound tracker modules over from my Atari easier and there were a lot of complaints about USB floppy drives.

Pretty soon I had an Audiomedia III Pro Tools card and started looking into software synthesis as an alternative to hardware that I still couldn't justify the expense of. This was in the 90s when all the companies making endless USB controllers these days actually made equipment you could make music with in it's own right.

Before I knew it the G4s came out and with it, Altivec enhanced software synths with some very impressive polyphony from a company called Bitheadz. They went bust and then Digidesign decided to retire my perfectly working PCI audio card and I got an Mbox2 with a Mac OS X compatible Pro Tools LE and it came with a number of software synths that did everything I needed but was still far too CPU intensive to ever complete anything even when I swapped my CPU for a dual 800Mhz. Everything virtual was a compromise.

Now I have a system as capable as I really wanted my first Mac to be, that does everything all that expensive hardware was only capable of in the 90s but I've spent a lot initially trying to stay with legacy technology and with the way Apple and Avid/Digidesign work has proven to be false economy when a lot of equipment is available on eBay these days.

It's frustrating that software development decisions can mean one minute you have a perfectly working alternative to physical synths or recording technology, the next, they retire hardware from their compatibilty list, forcing costly upgrades and if I'd just kept that Atari for a couple of years longer, I could have accumulated some equipment like an MPC 100, Alesis HR-16, Novation Drum Station, a couple of Novation Bass Stations and got a more high end audio interface with enough inputs to track them all.

I didn't for cost reasons but the compromises I made along the way to retain compatibility with legacy or even dead technology and software was never worth it.

Basically, I feel you should just use what works for you right now and keep your eye on what's on the horizon. Those older Mac Pros are power-hungry, offer less CPU power than the Quad Mac Mini and all the internal expansion in the world can't compensate for the CPU power of a modern mac.

The bottleneck of Thunderbolt for external GPUs is an issue but then again, there's stories of high end video GPUs working just fine in Thunderbolt enclosures so it could the 3D uses of a GPU are crippled with Thunderbolt but other uses are just fine because although the GPUs may work externally, they're not performing as well as they would in an equivalent system with a direct PCie x16 interface.

I think companies will find ways round the bandwidth restrictions. What if they used a form of Thunderbolt 2 RAID to combine the channels?

2 or 4 Thunderbolt inputs combined to offer 4 x the bandwidth of 1 Thunderbolt 2 port so the GPU doesn't choke and then a controller that intelligently offers variable bandwidth via Thunderbolt through ports on the expansion chassis could be an option. You never know what companies are going to do in the future and I'm sure the currently criminally over-priced Thunderbolt enclosure and PCIe expansion systems will come down eventually.
 
Live in the now :)

I go back as far as Motorola/386 chips.

Things change my friend, go with the flow.

That (so do i... well, a little further to the 8 bit era)

None of us have any idea of what might come out next year, let alone 5 years from now.

The trend however is for all of the new technology that comes out to go through this cycle (this has been true for math co processors, MMUs, video, sound, 3d, networking, etc):

- tech invented
- add on card released
- tech goes through several evolutions and becomes more advanced
- built in (motherboard, or in CPU) features can do the new tech in a crappy way
- built in tech catches up to "good enough" status for 99% of users
- add-on cards become an expensive, very rare niche product for hardly anybody


I've seen this happen with video cards (the non-GPU type, e.g., Super VGA 2d "windows accelerators"), sound cards, network adapters, RAID, and now it is happening with GPUs. Barring some new revolution in 3d gaming software (maybe raytracing?) I give the discrete GPU market maybe 3-5 years before even most gamers don't bother with one. And if that new revolution happens, the existing GPU technology will be rendered useless and a new style of card will be required.

Another trend that I've also seen is that trying to "future proof" your machine by buying lots of slots is not worth it.

Unless you are going to use those slots within 12-18 months, they will be superseded by a new standard (e.g., ISA to VLB to PCI v1,2 to AGP to PCIe v1,2,3 or FPM to EDO to DDR, DDR2/3/4) and the money you spent would have been better saved to upgrade the entire machine from lower-mid end model to new lower-mid end model when you need it (which will be as fast or faster for less money than the old high end box).
 
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The bottleneck of Thunderbolt for external GPUs is an issue but then again, there's stories of high end video GPUs working just fine in Thunderbolt enclosures so it could the 3D uses of a GPU are crippled with Thunderbolt but other uses are just fine because although the GPUs may work externally, they're not performing as well as they would in an equivalent system with a direct PCie x16 interface.

I think companies will find ways round the bandwidth restrictions. What if they used a form of Thunderbolt 2 RAID to combine the channels?

2 or 4 Thunderbolt inputs combined to offer 4 x the bandwidth of 1 Thunderbolt 2 port so the GPU doesn't choke and then a controller that intelligently offers variable bandwidth via Thunderbolt through ports on the expansion chassis could be an option. You never know what companies are going to do in the future and I'm sure the currently criminally over-priced Thunderbolt enclosure and PCIe expansion systems will come down eventually.

Where there's a TB-GPU bottleneck it's because of the limited bandwidth of TB. The reason some games and apps work at the same speed as if the card were installed internally is because those apps and games don't need or use even the bandwidth on a single TB1 interface. And actually by looking at tests on-line I would say this is the vast majority of games and apps too - certainly it's the case for apps which use the card as a compute device! I haven't seen any TB2 tests yet - I don't think there are any yet either. :) So TB2 will be better than anything we've seen tested so far.

Combining TB channels for RAID storage arrays works as expected yes - similar to how SATA or USB currently operates.

It is possible to construct a circuit which would combine the bandwidth of multiple data ports in order to supply more overall bandwidth for a single device (like a GPU in this case) but no sane company would attempt it. No one attempted it for USB, FW, RS232, SATA, or any other and no one will do it for TB. So we can just say instead thinking about a Frankenstein monster that it can't (won't) be done. We'll never see a PCIe expansion box which contains one card edge connecter and connects up via multiple TB cables. The R&D costs would be high and I suspect there would be just about no customers at all. Or how about you? Would you pay $1000 or more for a 10% speed up in only 10% of your apps when you already have two GPUs capable of the same? And this IMO also represents a misuse of the whole idea of a TB connected GPU. Maybe 5 or 6 years from now the story will be a different one but prior to that pretty much the only advantageous use for a TB connected GPU is as a compute device. And as mentioned above even TB1 doesn't bottleneck when the card is used in that way.


If your card is hitting the thunderbolt link excessively and performance is dropping really badly, its because you could use more RAM on your GPU.

...you can (again, in theory) get a fiber cable to run thunderbolt peripherals several hundred feet away, when the cables are available.
Yeah, that makes sense! YAY for cards with more VRAM!

BTW, you can get the optical cables right now here in Japan but according to Wiki they're not shipped internationally yet. <shrug>




Barring some new revolution in 3d gaming software (maybe raytracing?) I give the discrete GPU market maybe 3-5 years before even most gamers don't bother with one. And if that new revolution happens, the existing GPU technology will be rendered useless and a new style of card will be required.
Nice post. I'm almost sorry I snipped it. :) I just wanted to say that the next big resource consumption on the horizon is 3D - as in 3D games and 3D movies requiring 3D monitors. It's already well under way as you know but that in higher resolutions is where it's going next I think. RayTracing in games is already very doable but cheats used instead of realtime ray traced shadows, reflections, and etc. are more economical and can actually look better so actual ray tracing isn't very common in games.
 
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^^ yeah thunderbolt bottleneck is only a problem in some situations.

More GPU memory will reduce the bottleneck, as onboard GPU memory is MUCH faster for the GPU to access than even PCIe x16.

If your card is hitting the thunderbolt link excessively and performance is dropping really badly, its because you could use more RAM on your GPU.


Some people don't seem to fully understand what thunderbolt is. It's just a PCIe slot on a cable. Anything you can plug into a PCIe slot can in theory be connected via thunderbolt.

It's also why the cables are so expensive - they have transceivers in each end to encode the PCIe signals in a way that they can run over the cable. It also means that you can (again, in theory) get a fiber cable to run thunderbolt peripherals several hundred feet away, when the cables are available.
 
Yes, the graphics cards are replaceable, as in, if they break, Apple can pull the bad card and install a new one. To my knowledge Apple Stores do not service parts that require the application of new thermal paste, but supposing they do it will cost a nice chunk of cash for labor.

Yes Apple store repair can apply thermal paste, they replaced my MP daughter board but kept the CPU. Hardly matters though as they can send it off to a service center which is usually cheaper for the end customer as well.

As for the "nice chunk of cash for labor" that isn't correct. Repair is one place where Apple doesn't try to make money, their rates are extremely reasonable. Which is just smart marketing, you've got a bum device so the consumer is already down on you (is this due to bad manufacturing or design?), the last thing you want is to charge an arm and leg for it. I had a 2011 MBP go flop - I think it was just the TB connector, and they replaced the entire motherboard for $210 plus $100 labor. Amazing.

I'm interested to see if Apple will offer GPU post purchase upgrades for the new Mac Pro. It would be easy thing to offer and would alleviate angst from lack of PCI.
 
From the looks of it, the iTrash will have a substantially lower BOM than the Mac Pro tower. My guess is that it's profit margins will break new records for Apple, and so will shortness of buyers' upgrade cycles. Or maybe they'll just give up and use Windows. ;)

either that or hackintosh.

My next machine will run win 7 most likely. OSX isn't worth the hassle or the ridiculously unnecessary expense for a piece of art deco nonsense anymore. Its just not.

There is no way nvidea or AMD are going to put out affordable options for this machine, and thats if they put them out at all.
 
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Yes Apple store repair can apply thermal paste, they replaced my MP daughter board but kept the CPU. Hardly matters though as they can send it off to a service center which is usually cheaper for the end customer as well.

As for the "nice chunk of cash for labor" that isn't correct. Repair is one place where Apple doesn't try to make money, their rates are extremely reasonable. Which is just smart marketing, you've got a bum device so the consumer is already down on you (is this due to bad manufacturing or design?), the last thing you want is to charge an arm and leg for it. I had a 2011 MBP go flop - I think it was just the TB connector, and they replaced the entire motherboard for $210 plus $100 labor. Amazing.

I'm interested to see if Apple will offer GPU post purchase upgrades for the new Mac Pro. It would be easy thing to offer and would alleviate angst from lack of PCI.

Well that's good to know that Apple's labor rates are reasonable. But swapping in a new video card on the current tower takes the user about a minute.

In any case, the chances of Apple offering GPU upgrades for iTrash owners are about the same as the chance of them dropping an xMac i7 tower on us for Christmas.
 
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