End of the line in sight?

[OldGuyTom]

“I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?” The Telegraph newspaper on November 10, 2015 quoting Tim Cook.

Tim Cook doesn't look at the computer as a tool that people actually use to do real work, he looks at it as a combination of a toy, social media interface, and fashion statement.

Dear Mr. Cook: Try doing some in depth video or image editing and/or sophisticated report generation on an iPhone or iPad and get back to us, will you?

 

[dogslobber]

The guy's trying to sell iPads. Since when is truth important in sales?

iPad sales have nosedived recently but Mac sales keep increasing. I think he has the sales data to answer the question himself.

 

[Partron22]

Dear Mr. Cook: Try doing some in depth video or image editing and/or sophisticated report generation on an iPhone or iPad and get back to us, will you?

I begin to wonder why some multibillionaire with a clue doesn't toss a few billion at making a god, solid Linux box with some solid productivity software to go along. There ought to be some method whereby you can finance open source to the point that everyone wants to buy your good, solid box to run that software on and get their work done, without having to worry that syncing your family vacation vids to the cloud is going to eat all your network accessibility, when it's not already being chewed up by an endless string of trivial software updates.

 

[scottsjack]

The guy's trying to sell iPads. Since when is truth important in sales?

Exactly. Any time Apple is trying to get your money anything else is demonized. Remember the bag of hurt that the superior (and often cheaper than inferior itunes HD downloads) Blu-ray is supposed to be? How about optical drives that give users the freedom to load what every they want whenever they want? Then there are the twin evils of replaceable RAM and storage. Now cash is the baddy cuz Apple Pay is the right way.

Seven years of listening to that puke whether from interesting to listen to Steve Jobs or lisping Tim Cook put an HP Z230 on my desk for about the price of a nice mini.

 

[scottsjack]

They can't stop making Macs. The apps that runs on iOS are made using Macs.

They don't need to stop making Macs. They can just build weakass ones like the pathetic ones at the bottom of the iMac, MacBook and mini lines.

 

[scottsjack]

iPad sales have nosedived recently but Mac sales keep increasing. I think he has the sales data to answer the question himself.

It's too bad but Macs occupy a very small space compared to how many would sell if Apple made a complete line of them. In my opinion they have left a tremendous amount of money on the table.

 

[grcar]

It's too bad but Macs occupy a very small space compared to how many would sell if Apple made a complete line of them. In my opinion they have left a tremendous amount of money on the table.

Understand all Apple products are hugely overpriced. For example, a well-equipped iMac comes with 2x4GB of memory. The upgrade to 2x8GB costs $200, and the upgrade to 4x4GB costs $600. In comparison, OWC sells 2x4GB for $68, 2x8GB for $134 and 4x8GB for $268.

About two-thirds of Apple sales by dollars are iPhones, which are subsidized by cellular connection charges, so consumers do not see the overcharging. Apple forgets Macs are not subsidized.

 

[NorCalLights]

The death of the Mac (by way of iOSification) has been predicted since just after the iOS App Store launched, and then intensified when the Mac App Store launched, and then intensified again after every OS X software release. Instead, Mac sales have been increasing. The reality is the Mac platform is very robust, and quite important to Apple's bottom line. For example, if you split out just the Macintosh Computer division from Apple, it would rank in the top 25% of the Fortune 500 or so (source)... I'm not concerned. Regardless what Tim Cook says, the Mac ain't going anywhere. He's just trying to sell iPads this week.

 

[Micky Do]

They don't need to stop making Macs. They can just build weakass ones like the pathetic ones at the bottom of the iMac, MacBook and mini lines.

What's so pathetic about the base models of the iMac, MacBook and Mac Mini? They may not have all the grunt that a creative professional needs or a geek seeking bragging rights desires, but they are all the computer many an average Joe or Jill needs. An iPad Pro is likely not even on their wish list.

Bear in mind that though those base model processors idle along efficiently at their rated 1.1 to 1.6 Ghz, they can ramp up to nearly double that for a bit should the need arise. Also the step up from the base model Mini to the next up in the range costs 40% more….. worth it if you do need it, or if you have money to burn. If not, there are probably better ways to spend money.

 

[Ebenezum]

What's so pathetic about the base models of the iMac, MacBook and Mac Mini? They may not have all the grunt that a creative professional needs or a geek seeking bragging rights desires, but they are all the computer many an average Joe or Jill needs. An iPad Pro is likely not even on their wish list.

Bear in mind that though those base model processors idle along efficiently at their rated 1.1 to 1.6 Ghz, they can ramp up to nearly double that for a bit should the need arise. Also the step up from the base model Mini to the next up in the range costs 40% more….. worth it if you do need it, or if you have money to burn. If not, there are probably better ways to spend money.

1. RAM cannot be upgraded later which means shorter usable lifespan in most uses. 4 GB non upgradable RAM is pathetic.
2. You get relatively little for the amount you pay for them compared to next model in lineup, specks are much slower.
3. What average Joe or Jill is supposed to do when it no longer meets his/her needs and find out it can't be upgraded unlike previous models, throw it to trash can?

I am not saying those models won't have their uses in some cases but I wouldn't recommend those models to anyone.

 

[MandiMac]

Guys. You're all way too much into this.

Most laptops or PCs are used for light browsing, Facebook, and maybe occasional Skype and Candy Crush.
Laptops are (compared to iPads) bulky, uncomfortable, don't last as long and they got inferior screens (1366x768 anyone?).

In this context, Cook is as right as one can possibly be.
There won't be an end to any Mac line soon. The Mac popularity surges, so why in hell should Apple stop making them? The MacBook Air? Most popular ultrabook ever. Why giving that up easily?

In the last pre-holiday quarter they sold 5.7 million Macs. That's a staggering amount in just three months. Revenue? 6.88 billion. This would be a giant on its own, why should Apple just diss that money? Apple likes money like we all do.

So please, ladies and gents, hold your horses.

 

[myhaksown]

In my humble opinion I think that Tim knows very well that they made an error with iPad Pro... Is not a very bad product: great stylus and weight/portability, but it lacks some good productivity options... The surface pro ( besides the stupid toaster refrigerator statements) is the future and Tim Knows that Apple is forcing too much his hand with both price and scarce-fullness of functions in the pro... I'm an Apple fan ( maybe more in the past than today), but they are becoming every day more greedy.
I hope that the pro will not sell very well, like the Air 2 ( Great device that I own and is phenomenal for very much things, but not like a Mac)
If the surface pro/book will do well like I suspect and the iPad pro will not sell well next year we will probably see a macbook touch

Long story short: Tim is trying to convince more people to buy the Pro pad because he knows that is not something special
only an overpriced and big (look at that bezels in 2015!!!!) iPad

After all that poem I will buy a top end Mac mini this year

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. When the first iPad came out everyone trashed on it asking why we would ever want such a thing. Now we have a larger iPad and we are doing it again. The Pro is not for everyone, that's perfectly clear. It's great for graphic designers, maybe animators, and plenty of business users. Personally I want one to use for school. The multitasking I'm sure will be far better then on an Air 2. As for the surface tablets they have consistently sold poorly and while they seem to be making headway finally, I don't see them in the long term. I'm hoping the iPad Pro is just the model that they will use to bridge iOS and Mac OS, even though Cook has said that won't happen I have a hard time believing that a tablet that beats my 2010 MacBooks performance won't be used for something more. As for the iPad Air, I worked at target in electronics and iPad Airs (1st) sold like crazy. Then when the iPad Air 2 came out they sold even faster. I'm not sure where you're finding that the iPad Air 2 sold so poorly but from my perspective they sold far faster then you think.

The stylus is not the traditional stylus that you use everyday. It's meant for drawing and other tasks that absolutely can not have any lag to it. If you want a stylus go buy one on amazon. The pencil is meant to act like a pencil.

Can't we all just stop with all this stupid Apple doom and gloom? Every product launch we do this and its ridiculous. I'm sure when the time comes that apple really screws up we'll see an article here all about it and how samsung just took over again ( I hope that day never comes).

 

[MarcoCapa]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. When the first iPad came out everyone trashed on it asking why we would ever want such a thing. Now we have a larger iPad and we are doing it again. The Pro is not for everyone, that's perfectly clear. It's great for graphic designers, maybe animators, and plenty of business users. Personally I want one to use for school. The multitasking I'm sure will be far better then on an Air 2. As for the surface tablets they have consistently sold poorly and while they seem to be making headway finally, I don't see them in the long term. I'm hoping the iPad Pro is just the model that they will use to bridge iOS and Mac OS, even though Cook has said that won't happen I have a hard time believing that a tablet that beats my 2010 MacBooks performance won't be used for something more. As for the iPad Air, I worked at target in electronics and iPad Airs (1st) sold like crazy. Then when the iPad Air 2 came out they sold even faster. I'm not sure where you're finding that the iPad Air 2 sold so poorly but from my perspective they sold far faster then you think.

The stylus is not the traditional stylus that you use everyday. It's meant for drawing and other tasks that absolutely can not have any lag to it. If you want a stylus go buy one on amazon. The pencil is meant to act like a pencil.

Can't we all just stop with all this stupid Apple doom and gloom? Every product launch we do this and its ridiculous. I'm sure when the time comes that apple really screws up we'll see an article here all about it and how samsung just took over again ( I hope that day never comes).

Hey man I don't know you, but I would be glad if you respect my opinion... I can say that all what you say is stupid, but is not a very elegant way to act
Have a nice sunday

 

[kazmac]

As much as Tim Cook pisses me off lately... it's not the end of the line for Macs just yet. Now if I could figure out what monitor (excluding Dell - not a fan) is for me, I'd order a not quite top of the line 2014 Mac Mini and join all the good folks who have loved them for years now.

 

[roadkill401]

Tim Cook doesn't look at the computer as a tool that people actually use to do real work, he looks at it as a combination of a toy, social media interface, and fashion statement.

Dear Mr. Cook: Try doing some in depth video or image editing and/or sophisticated report generation on an iPhone or iPad and get back to us, will you?

I was going to say about the same thing.

But to illustrate my point, just go over to the iMac forum where there are how many daily posts about how the i7 4ghz with the latest processor seems to lag when editing their 60MP raw files and your can't scroll through seamlessly through the 10,000+ pictures in their library. OK, try and do that on an iPad or any sort PLEASE and tell me it works better.

Or how about those who are screaming as they are not getting 60fps at 5K on the latest video game. Lets see you get that working on your apple TV?

Yes there are those who use their Mac's as little more than a glorified web browser or to write emails on. There are those who could live with an iPhone for everything. But I have not seen the 1TB ipad with 16gb of ram that works flawlessly and gets Giggabit speed over wireless

Sorry is not going to happen

 

[MarcoCapa]

I was going to say about the same thing.

But to illustrate my point, just go over to the iMac forum where there are how many daily posts about how the i7 4ghz with the latest processor seems to lag when editing their 60MP raw files and your can't scroll through seamlessly through the 10,000+ pictures in their library. OK, try and do that on an iPad or any sort PLEASE and tell me it works better.

Or how about those who are screaming as they are not getting 60fps at 5K on the latest video game. Lets see you get that working on your apple TV?

Yes there are those who use their Mac's as little more than a glorified web browser or to write emails on. There are those who could live with an iPhone for everything. But I have not seen the 1TB ipad with 16gb of ram that works flawlessly and gets Giggabit speed over wireless

Sorry is not going to happen

Definitely not now, but to make an example the problem in zooming and scrolling on a PDF with Mac is irritating and known by Apple... They have shifted a large part in the direction of the iOS devices ( more money certainly)
I think that a convergence is inevitable... People need fast and portable machines... Whit real wireless charging consider movable a large part of current desktop machines and arm processors ( very energy efficient) are becoming every day more powerful... An octa core with a clock like the iPad pro would be a beast with an upgraded iOS

 

[shaunp]

“I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?” The Telegraph newspaper on November 10, 2015 quoting Tim Cook.

Depends what your requirements are. If you sit in Starbucks pretending to write a novel, then yes an iPad is fine. If on the other hand you have a proper IT job and, like many of us have to fund your own training, this means having a home VM lab. Try running VM's on an iPad!

'What's a VM?' I hear you say .... thought so!

 

[roadkill401]

There is more to the modern computer than just processing power. There is screen size and multi task handling as well. I have both a mac mini and a 27" iMac. The mini is used as a family computer and sits inside the kitchen cubby space. it does get used quite a bit by the whole family. How does a tablet work for 3-4 different people? I don't think IOS can support users.

Take a look at how IOS has evolved compared to OSX. My mac mini is from 2012 but it works with Mavericks -> El Capitan. I have an ipad air, and yes I upgraded from IOS7 -> IOS9 but the new functionality did not translate. I don't have split view multi tasking. Was sold the air as being a 64bit chip but they chinced out so much or didn't think through and gave me not enough RAM so that function could ever work. So my $500 tablet has a 2 year lifespan, where my $500 Mac mini just keeps on trucking along.

The sad side to Apple is they withhold technology each release to perpetuate and upgrade cycle. Why give away the farm when you can feed enough people with just bread crumbs.

 

[Partron22]

Tim Cook: Apple won't create 'converged' MacBook and iPad

Last week, Cook appeared to suggest that PCs had outlived their usefulness.
“I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?” he was quoted as saying in The Daily Telegraph.
However, it is understood that Cook was referring to Windows PCs and not Apple ones.
“We don’t regard Macs and PCs to be the same,” he said.

More relevant to this thread:

“We feel strongly that customers are not really looking for a converged Mac and iPad,” said Cook. “Because what that would wind up doing, or what we’re worried would happen, is that neither experience would be as good as the customer wants. So we want to make the best tablet in the world and the best Mac in the world. And putting those two together would not achieve either. You’d begin to compromise in different ways.”

The kicker:

He said that he has personally taken to the device as his principal work machine when travelling. He now travels, he said, only with an iPad Pro and an iPhone.

 

[grcar]

The kicker:

Tim Cook retracted his statement, nobody needs a PC, in a follow-on interview saying, a PC is not a Mac.

A recent article in Forbes says that Tim Cook is the main problem at Apple.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jaysoma...cuses-aside-apples-major-problem-is-tim-cook/

Forbes explains that other tech companies have seen their stock values rise this year while Apple is flat even after paying huge dividends in recent quarters. Moreover, Apple executives have been selling huge amounts of stock.

 

[Partron22]

A recent article in Forbes says that Tim Cook is the main problem at Apple.

So bring in the Woz, and let him find a new ceo.
That'd get things moving in a different direction: Wozniak: I don’t like being trapped in Apple’s ecosystem

 

[OldGuyTom]

Tim Cook retracted his statement, nobody needs a PC, in a follow-on interview saying, a PC is not a Mac.

A recent article in Forbes says that Tim Cook is the main problem at Apple.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jaysoma...cuses-aside-apples-major-problem-is-tim-cook/

Forbes explains that other tech companies have seen their stock values rise this year while Apple is flat even after paying huge dividends in recent quarters. Moreover, Apple executives have been selling huge amounts of stock.

"Apple executives have been selling huge amounts of stock"

…now there's a good sign.

FYI, we did a we site analysis of one of our sites and access using handhelds and tablets pretty much flatlined a few years ago. They're not insignificant, but they aren't the majority, and there is not a trend for people to dump PCs or Macs. By our accounts, the handheld is seen as an auxiliary device.

My system has two large monitors on it and there's no way it could be replaced by a handheld or tablet…no way! Cook's comments were stupid.

 

[Micky Do]

1. RAM cannot be upgraded later which means shorter usable lifespan in most uses. 4 GB non upgradable RAM is pathetic.
2. You get relatively little for the amount you pay for them compared to next model in lineup, specks are much slower.
3. What average Joe or Jill is supposed to do when it no longer meets his/her needs and find out it can't be upgraded unlike previous models, throw it to trash can?

I am not saying those models won't have their uses in some cases but I wouldn't recommend those models to anyone.

1. Why should non upgradeable RAM reduce the useable lifespan of a computer? How long is that anyway? Previous generations had upgradeable RAM because the requirements of OS, apps and hardware were increasing exponentially. We have probably moved beyond that now.

Those running pro apps, such as those for audio and video productivity, may require more RAM for them to work well. However, Joe or Jill average, with undemanding use of basic apps can get by with 4 GB RAM. Want or desire more? 8 GB RAM is available, off the shop shelf. Need more? Custom order, and wait a few days for delivery.

2. It depends on your requirements. Higher specs may offer more bang for your buck should you need or desire them, but why cough up for more then your current or anticipated needs?

Bragging rights, if you have the bucks, I guess.

3. While some folks needs may change radically in a short space of time, for many, if not most they do not change much over the lifespan of a computer.

If needs do change markedly, you are probably better off with a new computer sporting current tech, rather than upgrading an old one. If they no longer meet requirements, Mac Minis hold their value quite well, so they can be off loaded on the second hand market, to offset some of the cost of a new computer………..

So, no, you don't have to throw your old computer in the trash can. Strikes me as being a win / win situation

"Apple executives have been selling huge amounts of stock"

…now there's a good sign.

FYI, we did a we site analysis of one of our sites and access using handhelds and tablets pretty much flatlined a few years ago. They're not insignificant, but they aren't the majority, and there is not a trend for people to dump PCs or Macs. By our accounts, the handheld is seen as an auxiliary device.

My system has two large monitors on it and there's no way it could be replaced by a handheld or tablet…no way! Cook's comments were stupid.

Apple, with OS X and iOS (now with a high level of connectivity between) does seem to see computers and tablets as complementary products. Many folks have both. Some of my students who have just an iPad, have remarked that they really need a Mac to get the best out of it.

Over at Microsoft, on the other hand, with its one OS fits all, they seem to see tablets and computers as part of the same continuum.

 

[Partron22]

Over at Microsoft, on the other hand, with its one OS fits all, they seem to see tablets and computers as part of the same continuum.

Surface Pro has not been an entirely happy experience for Microsoft. I have seen mention of Zune and Surface Pro within a single sentence. That is not a good sign.

 

[Micky Do]

Surface Pro has not been an entirely happy experience for Microsoft. I have seen mention of Zune and Surface Pro within a single sentence. That is not a good sign.

Correct answer!