Enjoy your HTC Ones, that's the last flagship you'll ever get from HTC.

[jrswizzle]

----------



If the One was so great and there so much confidence in its success, why would all the executives be leaving the company? Is there any evidence they were fired as you claim?

And all that article says is that HTC expect all this demand, there's no evidence it actually exists...

Because these guys who are leaving were reported to be leaving last year.....they didn't just up and quit/get fired today.......reports came out last year of these guys being ousted.....

And rightfully so - look at HTC's approach last year - all those different flagships with limited support.....its no wonder the guys in charge of that are getting their butts handed to them......

And 2 execs does not mean ALL of them (especially when the Verge can't even be bothered to get the titles right)......jesus you're as bad as the media. Over-dramatize everything to make your point.....

Like I said, last quarters financials showed all the R&D and production costs of the One and no sales.....let's see how the financials look in Q2 and Q3 2013 and then decide if the company is going belly-up.

If you simply look at the HTC One itself, the dev support thus far and the marketing HTC has behind it, you wouldn't assume this company is going under as all these things are better now than the recent past - maybe ever.

So.....let's hold off. I know you want to see them fail, but that doesn't mean your twisted stories and wishes are actually fact. Even if they are, its too early to tell at this point.

 

[0dev]

Who said they are all leaving of their own volition? Who said all or some were not fired? Even Engadget asks the question about Hoornik and that is a valid one. However, this clearly does not play out in your world.

What I will say is that Kouji Kodera, the Chief Product Officer, is gone. What does this say about the One? Whether the guy was fired or quit doesn't matter. If he was fired if anything that's worse as it says HTC has no confidence in the guy who headed up designing the product they need to save them.

 

[jrswizzle]

What I will say is that Kouji Kodera, the Chief Product Officer, is gone. What does this say about the One? Whether the guy was fired or quit doesn't matter. If he was fired if anything that's worse as it says HTC has no confidence in the guy who designed the product they need to save them.

If he was reported to be out as early as December last year, maybe he was ousted due to the blunders of last year. Do we know Kodera has been the main designer of the One?

Maybe the design of the One isn't the issue but the management of product lines.....we can certainly see the problems there especially in 2012.....

Typical though.....take one sensationalist article and fabricate entire ridiculous stories and "facts" about reality all base on your own bias and agenda.

I think the HTC One is the best smartphone I've ever owned (and I'm an iOS guy). I'll reserve judgement/panic until I actually see how the One is faring, because by all the accounts we have (granted its not a lot), the One is selling very well and there is strong demand.

I'd be willing to bet we'll see strong Q2 numbers from HTC and even stronger Q3 numbers as the advertisement push dies down and word-of-mouth takes over as the main marketing tool. I don't know this for sure, so I'll go ahead and enjoy the One and wait.

 

[robanga]

In 2004 they were a tiny company making grey label Windows Mobile devices. The fact that their profits have plunged that low (98%! ) is huge.

I actually was dealing with them in the early part of the decade and their business did indeed do a pivot, from making stuff for others to their own brand. I think their simplified strategy on the One is a great direction but who knows if they can compete out there any more. Its hard with the money that Apple and Samsung spend backed up by manufacturing juggernauts of Foxcon and Samsung themselves.

Don't forget Apple still makes something like 70% of the profits in this entire sector. That remains incredible.

As for the stumble with the HTC first, perhaps there is Facebook marketing money in there that will soften the negative blow. I stopped into my local AT&T store several times recently and their staff mentioned that despite having something like 6 HTC First demo units on display, nobody asked for the "Facebook Phone", although they noted stronger than expected inquiries on the One. Anecdotal for sure but interesting.

 

[jrswizzle]

I actually was dealing with them in the early part of the decade and their business did indeed do a pivot, from making stuff for others to their own brand. I think their simplified strategy on the One is a great direction but who knows if they can compete out there any more. Its hard with the money that Apple and Samsung spend backed up by manufacturing juggernauts of Foxcon and Samsung themselves.

Don't forget Apple still makes something like 70% of the profits in this entire sector. That remains incredible.

As for the stumble with the HTC first, perhaps there is Facebook marketing money in there that will soften the negative blow. I stopped into my local AT&T store several times recently and their staff mentioned that despite having something like 6 HTC First demo units on display, nobody asked for the "Facebook Phone", although they noted stronger than expected inquiries on the One. Anecdotal for sure but interesting.

I have to think HTC got something from Facebook for it.....can't imagine HTC really thought it would take off and be some huge seller.

That is more a Facebook failure than anything.....people showed they don't want more facebook (and might have actually caused people to decide they want LESS facebook.....)

 

[robanga]

I have to think HTC got something from Facebook for it.....can't imagine HTC really thought it would take off and be some huge seller.

That is more a Facebook failure than anything.....people showed they don't want more facebook (and might have actually caused people to decide they want LESS facebook.....)

Interesting yes and its not like Facebook is suffering as a brand themselves. I loaded the home App on my One X and thought it was nice, but have yet to load it on the One because frankly i think the One's launcher and Blinkfeed is nice and don't want to much it up by seeing some silly FB post as soon as i turn on my phone.

The battles between the industry titans are very interesting to watch. Let's hope more remain because consumer choice will suffer, prices will increase and the motivation to innovate will lag, without the competition.

 

[Peterg2]

What I will say is that Kouji Kodera, the Chief Product Officer, is gone. What does this say about the One? Whether the guy was fired or quit doesn't matter. If he was fired if anything that's worse as it says HTC has no confidence in the guy who headed up designing the product they need to save them.

What exactly is a Chief Product Officer? That I think is a good question. I do not think that Jony Ive is a Chef Product Officer. Is a CPO a designer? I don't think so.

Here is an example of a Chief Product Officer "leaving" the company

http://www.thestar.com/business/201...on_leaves_after_seethrough_pants_debacle.html

 

[0dev]

What exactly is a Chief Product Officer? That I think is a good question. I do not think that Jony Ive is a Chef Product Officer. Is a CPO a designer? I don't think so.

Here is an example of a "Chief Product Officer" "leaving* the company

http://www.thestar.com/business/201...on_leaves_after_seethrough_pants_debacle.html

From Wikipedia:

A CPO is responsible for all product-related matters. Usually includes product conception and development, production in general, innovation, project management and product management. In many IT/telecommunications companies, this position includes release management and production. In small and mid-sized companies the CPO typically also play the role of the COO.

Not a small role. This guy would have been in a vital position for designing the HTC One. He would have had all the big decisions about the product. This isn't just some technician, this is a high up executive here. If he was fired, he was fired by the CEO. If he left, he did so with a lot of knowledge that we don't have about the way the company is run.

Either way, it's not at all a good sign for HTC that this is happening. I find it hilarious how all the HTC fanboys are justifying it.

----------

BTW, I know this is only anecdotal, but I asked about the HTC One in a big phone store and was told to get an S3 instead (this was shortly before the S4 announcement) because the Ones had a high return rate and HTC had recalled their remaining stock due to faults. As an ex-Sensation owner this is not at all surprising to me. The quality control doesn't seem to have changed at all. I wonder if all these HTC Ones will still be working in a few months?

 

[tengtengvn]

Remember the day when they have ton of flagships, one on each carrier?
They haven't learned the lesson, when they announced the HTC One 64GB, it's AT&T exclusive. Exclusive my ***.

 

[Peterg2]

From Wikipedia:



Not a small role. This guy would have been in a vital position for designing the HTC One. He would have had all the big decisions about the product. This isn't just some technician, this is a high up executive here. If he was fired, he was fired by the CEO. If he left, he did so with a lot of knowledge that we don't have about the way the company is run.

Either way, it's not at all a good sign for HTC that this is happening. I find it hilarious how all the HTC fanboys are justifying it.

My point re what is a CPO was semi-rhetorical which I assumed you got.

Yes, he is very important without a doubt. Very close to the CEO. Designing? I don't think so. Think of it this way. He would have a group of designers under him. The designers say they want to do X (take, for example, the new ultrapixel camera).

He would also consult with people like the equivalent of what Tim Cook was before he became CEO, asking questions re sourcing components, the supply chain, etc.

In effect, he is responsible for the resultant *total* product and that would not just be for the performance of the device but everything else.

So, speculating now, with the failure of HTC last year and with the well-known issues of sourcing sufficient camera components (HTC suffered from poor yields of some components) for the One this year, I can well believe they said enough is enough and they pushed him out.

The HTC One's ultrapixel camera was daring and whilst I like the camera for *my purposes* HTC oversold it without a doubt. HTC should have gone "safe" with it, sourcing a 13 MP camera and be done with it. The design, the overhauling of Sense were all done well. The phone would have been just fine.

One final point and this is to do with Asian business culture. Everybody who seems to have left, or more likely pushed, are "outsiders". Some "outsiders" have done well, think of Carlos Ghosn CEO of Nissan (and Renault). However, think again of Woodford of Olympus.

I am more and more convinced this was a house-cleaning. The only reason I think Kodera was not thrown out at the end of Q1 as anticipated was due to the delays in delivering the HTC One. He was going to go but they did not want him, amidst all the turmoil, to "leave" then as it would have exacerbated already the situation with HTC being slow to get the One into the distribution channels.

 

[sentinelsx]

R.I.P. HTC



http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/4...ures-disastrous-first-and-production-problems



http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/22/4355290/htc-asia-ceo-lennard-hoornik-leaves-company

Considering my experiences with HTC's products in the past few years I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

Oh c'mon, bad rubbish? Give me a break.

 

[stridemat]

MOD NOTE

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[Peterg2]

MOD NOTE

We know this may seem like a 'hot topic' to have posted here, but it is a valid thread in our opinion. However, we will be monitoring closely.

-snip-

Hey, it has gone all cold here

 

[robanga]

Hey, it has gone all cold here

I love the discourse on industry events and competition that you see in these forums all the time.

I struggle when the "fanboy" terms are thrown around and when people delight in a company's failings, because i think those are real people's professional lives and dreams at stake here.

I'd prefer to think that all the approaches have value whether it be Microsoft, Apple, Google, Samsung or whomever. They all have delighted me with their products at one point, and failed me at others. I've been fortunate to have owned a lot of stuff over the years.

On an HTC note its been interesting to see all the comparison's between the S4 and the One. There are certainly other "flagships" out there from LG and Sony for instance, but they rarely get mentioned.

Nokia has built some great stuff but Windows Phone is just not getting traction.

 

[Tig Bitties]

If Nokia is still around with their *****ty business tactics, and crappy decisions the past couple of years. Then HTC should be able to ride this out.

 

[Peterg2]

As expected the Verge article is *everywhere*. As I alluded to earlier, I do think these were people being "let go", and these decisions were made at the end of 2012, at least amongst the more senior individuals. Here is a link - at the bottom - which encapsulates my thinking (I may well be wrong as well as the author). Here are a few quotes:

"HTC in Crisis: Failing Phones and Supply Woes Lead to Firings" (the heading)

"Today we learned that HTC's Chief Product Officer, Kouji Kodera, left the company last week. Kodera was responsible for HTC's overall product strategy. He's just one of a number of top-level employees fired in the past three months – many in the marketing department."

"For now it seems the company is in a state of panic and looking for folks to blame. CEO Peter Chou is desperately attempting to steer the company out of troubled waters, but in the process he's creating a company culture of fear."

Some additional, evolving, thoughts of mine. This whole thing was mismanaged by HTC and Chou is largely to blame, the man who said he would step down if the One were not a success.

I do believe the One can and will be a relative success. However, to have started the "letting go" process of at least a couple of very senior executives at the end of December was bad timing. The Chief Product Officer and the COO obviously knew then they were out at the end of Q1 (see the Focus Taiwan link I gave earlier). They were deemed blameworthy for the mess that 2012 was for HTC, including the mini-debacle of supply shortages of the camera components. Other decisions were made then I bet, including replacing much of the marketing department of HTC and bringing it largely "home" to Taiwan.

Now, even more guesswork on my part. Both the CPO and COO were supposed to leave at the end of March. However, after the extremely favourable critical reception of the One, HTC may well have prevailed upon them to stick around a little longer to get the worst of the "hump" out of the way. Perhaps the two individuals agreed to it but for only a short while (who would want to stick around under those circumstances for long?). Other, less senior people, would also have seen the writing on the wall and jumped ship before they were fired or simply just hated the whole toxic environment at HTC. Look at the tweet of Eric Lin, previously product strategy manager for HTC (clearly at HTC an endangered species):

"To all my friends still at @HTC - just quit. leave now. it’s tough to do, but you’ll be so much happier, I swear."

https://twitter.com/ericlin/status/336608522420764672

There is a lot of anger there!

The TSEC (Taiwan stock exchange) will open in a bit under 6 hours and I can see HTC's stock getting punished.

Here is the link for the article I mentioned early on in this post:

http://www.androidpit.com/htc-in-crisis

 

[Tig Bitties]

I like HTC Android phones, I wish them the best, and hope HTC gets the Nexus-Five contract. But Samsung has become a juggernaut, all in one powerhouse, probably one of the biggest if not THE biggest manufacturer in the world for smartphones, they re the only company on the planet that can build a new phone all in house under one roof, with their parts, not subbing out. Samsung makes their own displays, makes processors, makes hard drives, makes memory, engineers the phone design / cases. Who else can do all of that ?

- Good HTC years = To me were back in 2009 / 2010, with the HTC HD2 Windows Phone, and EVO 4G, both those smartphones were beasts, and ahead for their time. Really fantastic devices, and best of the best for 2010.

- Crappy HTC years = 2011 The EVO 3D, and Thunderbolt were poor designs, with issues, and just nothing like their previous designs, HTC lost a lot of their momentum with those phones in my opinion.

- Confusing HTC years = 2012, HTC One X was a great phone for 12', they had a chance to really shoot up, but blew it. I think the One X was better than the S3 and iPhone 4S. But HTC didn't market it properly. They only made the One X for the international crowd, and ATT in the U.S. then made something called the EVO 4G LTE for Sprint, was a One X but different, and then T-Mobile only got the One S not the X, and Verizon got nothing. HTC should have made just 1 One X, and released it worldwide, the same name, same design, everywhere on all carriers.

- 2013 = ?? The HTC One is a very nice phone, but is it too late ?

 

[Peterg2]

I like HTC Android phones, I wish them the best, and hope HTC gets the Nexus-Five contract. But Samsung has become a juggernaut, all in one powerhouse, probably one of the biggest if not THE biggest manufacturer in the world for smartphones, they re the only company on the planet that can build a new phone all in house under one roof, with their parts, not subbing out. Samsung makes their own displays, makes processors, makes hard drives, makes memory, engineers the phone design / cases. Who else can do all of that ?

- Good HTC years = To me were back in 2009 / 2010, with the HTC HD2 Windows Phone, and EVO 4G, both those smartphones were beasts, and ahead for their time. Really fantastic devices, and best of the best for 2010.

- Crappy HTC years = 2011 The EVO 3D, and Thunderbolt were poor designs, with issues, and just nothing like their previous designs, HTC lost a lot of their momentum with those phones in my opinion.

- Confusing HTC years = 2012, HTC One X was a great phone for 12', they had a chance to really shoot up, but blew it. I think the One X was better than the S3 and iPhone 4S. But HTC didn't market it properly. They only made the One X for the international crowd, and ATT in the U.S. then made something called the EVO 4G LTE for Sprint, was a One X but different, and then T-Mobile only got the One S not the X, and Verizon got nothing. HTC should have made just 1 One X, and released it worldwide, the same name, same design, everywhere on all carriers.

- 2013 = ?? The HTC One is a very nice phone, but is it too late ?

I agree with several of your points. Looking back with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, they probably should have blown up the marketing department, together with the Chief Product Officer and COO in later summer last year. This would have been a hell of a lot cleaner. Now it is extremely muddled.

 

[Tig Bitties]

I think for 2012 the One X was a great smartphone and best for that time, for sure better than the Galaxy S3 and iPhone 4S which were the other top two smartphones out in Spring 2012.

Why didn't HTC just make the One X available on four U.S. carriers at the same time, keep the same name, the same design, for everyone, not different versions, and different models. They should have released the One X across all carriers worldwide in Spring 2012, and marketed the crap out of it, could have been big time.

Seems HTC has learned now, and is doing that with the new One, but is it too late ?

 

[robanga]

I think for 2012 the One X was a great smartphone and best for that time, for sure better than the Galaxy S3 and iPhone 4S which were the other top two smartphones out in Spring 2012.

Why didn't HTC just make the One X available on four U.S. carriers at the same time, keep the same name, the same design, for everyone, not different versions, and different models. They should have released the One X across all carriers worldwide in Spring 2012, and marketed the crap out of it, could have been big time.

Seems HTC has learned now, and is doing that with the new One, but is it too late ?

Having owned an S3, a One X and an iPhone 4S and then a 5 for much of last year, I agree with you. The One X stands up well against phones being released today. Not marketing it and their silly marketing tagline "Quietly Brilliant" is an indicator of marketing failure. Sure - So quiet nobody bought it

 

[spinedoc77]

Maybe when Nokia can start making Android phones but right now I don't see them being that much of a competitor to Samsung.

yah that's why I put the ?!?, I really don't see anyone as a major competitor to Samsung anymore except Apple, and they have been really slacking.

 

[Peterg2]

From slashgear:

Update: HTC gave us the following statements, and confirmed that Scott Croyle, VP of Design, will be taking over Kouji Kodera’s duties:

“HTC can confirm that Jason Gordon has left the company. We appreciate his contributions in the past several years and wish him well on his future endeavors. HTC continues to invest in talent and recruitment as part of our broader human resources strategy to ensure the continued strength of our company’s organizational structure.”

“Kouji Kodera has left HTC to pursue other interests. We appreciate his contributions and wish him all the best. Scott Croyle will take over his duties.”



http://www.slashgear.com/htc-sees-more-top-execs-disappear-as-facebook-fouls-first-launch-22283099/

 

[jrswizzle]

yah that's why I put the ?!?, I really don't see anyone as a major competitor to Samsung anymore except Apple, and they have been really slacking.

Overall there isn't another OEM that can crank out the sheer number of phones and smartphones Samsung can......

Line for line however, Apple is still king.

I think the only way Samsung can loose marketshare at this point would be to consolidate its lineup. They've gotten to be marketshare kings by flooding the market with a vast number of different types of devices.

Perhaps, jointly different OEMs could start eating into some of the other areas (lower to medium end), but at this point it would take multiple competitors or Samsung deciding to condense its phone operation to knock Sammy out of that top spot.

But are we surprised, aside from the occasional quarter here in the US, Sammy has lead in market share since 2008 (and before that it was Nokia).

 

[daneoni]

Stop being melodramatic 0dev. HTC is neither dead nor dying.

Also, really? good riddance? Sure, lets have LESS competition and a Samsung monopoly because...you know...THAT is whats good for consumers.

/s

 

[jrswizzle]

Stop being melodramatic 0dev. HTC isn't neither dead nor dying.

Also, really? good riddance? Sure, lets have LESS competition and a Samsung monopoly because...you know because THATS good for consumers.

/s

THIS.

Isn't it so funny that the same people who likely spoke against Apple and an Apple dominant smartphone market because "choice is good" and "competition makes for better products" are many of the same who want Samsung to crush all who oppose them.

We need MORE Android OEMs making high-quality products....if you haven't been a fan of HTC in the past, don't hope for their demise, hope they improve. As much as I hate Samsung, I'd hate to see them go under because it would devastate the smartphone industry.