Epic Games to Charge 12% Fee for App Sales From Alternative iPhone Store

[yabeweb]

If I wanted more open platform I would use Android.

I would hate if some EU developer forced me to download an app from a website only. It means they might use private APIs to collect my data without my knowledge.

The best way to mitigate this is to stop using 3rd party apps, which I mostly did anyway. So, I couldn’t care less actually.

I get what you prefere, but other people prefere other things.

You have the right not to download such app if you are not sure about how it works, what you chose should not limit my choice.

I prefere iOS instead of Android, that should not limit the way I get my SW.

I don’t get limited that way on a Mac, and I don’t want to be limited on iOS.

Now thankfully it doesn’t need to be that way, I am free to get the sw somewhere else if available and if I want and you are free not to download “potentially insets (for you)” if you don’t want to, just like you can on a Mac.

Do you feel undefeated downloading Affinity on a Mac outside of the Mas? I do t, and got a better deal.

Getting stuff outside the store is not unsafer than getting it from the developer, you just need to know who you are getting your app from.

Respected developers will be the same on either store.

Most people complaining are not even in EU so it won’t change a thing for them anyway

 

[Bornee35]

Not really sure whether you could not think of it yourself. But I'll give you a hint: who is earning money with each sold iPhone or iPad?

The company who spent RnD dollars on developing said platform.

 

[AppliedMicro]

If a company develops successful platform it’s entitled to charge a fee from those using it

Once they're operating in a duopoly, there entitlement to charge may be (and likely will be) restricted by law and regulators.

Not really very easy as then every app would be “free” to download and then have in app purchases to unlock the features

I think it's fair for Apple to charge on delivery of apps.
So long as they aren't the only allowed source on their OS.

A fair competitive price for delivery of apps.

Apple and their platform benefitting from all the popular "free" apps - while enforcing anticompetitive terms for digital content only isn't fair (especially when Apple isn't competing with them on so much of that).

 

[azentropy]

So what does Epic charge if I want to sell my own player skins inside Fortnite?

 

[kiv.atso]

Apples €100 annual fee for a dev account should be enough for API maintenance;

You joking, right?

How is that going to be enough to pay Apple developers salaries and invest in new research?

They should also give away devices for free because of €100 dev fee too.

Perhaps seeing Apple go down makes you happy, but for me it means loosing my job.

 

[aeneas07]

It hasn't - since there was no competition between App Stores once a user bought a phone.

The purchase of a smartphone "locks in" a customer to that operating system - and in the case of Apple their App Store. (Although the application stores available are - usually - only very minor purchase criteria).

Switching between phones doesn't work the same way as switching from Walmart to Target.

No one forces a user to buy an iPhone. A user chooses to purchase an iPhone and the lock-in that comes with it. Everyone knows exactly what they are getting why they buy an iPhone and that is why many people CHOOSE not to buy one.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I suppose if only people who purchase games are the ones using the Epic App Store and only apps that use the Unreal Engine are in the store.....you got a point!

Well developers who use the unreal engine who earns 1million pays 5% licensing fee, distributing it through the epic store and they pay 0%.

The unreal engine can be used for iOS, android, windows, Mac , Linux, steanOS.

What can Xcode be used for?

 

[vladi]

I notice that the large app makers think the apps should be as expensive as the hardware abd platform itself. They dont want to pay the hardware and platform maker anything. Lol 😂

Business people are always looking to devalue other peoples hard work.

Oh come on now!! You are pretending like hardware and platform makers are different entities in iOS case.

How much money does Adobe pay to Apple or Microsoft for selling their software which only works on their respective platforms? Exactly $0. How much money does Adobe pay to Apple, Intel and AMD for selling their software that requires latter hardware to work? Exactly $0. How much does Adobe pay to Apple, nVidia and AMD for utilizing their GPU? Exactly $0

 

[AppliedMicro]

No one forces a user to buy an iPhone. A user chooses to purchase an iPhone and the lock-in that comes with it.

I contend that that's not relevant criteria in most of the real world.

Either way, there aren't more than one other operating systems to choose from. There are many reasons why consumers prefer iOS devices over Android - and no other (relevant) alternative.

👉 The App Store is economic bundling. Once there's a duopoly in the underlying "platform" market, legislators and regulators will step in against abuse of such positions.

 

[Mr. Jenkins]

Is it about being a hypocrite or about a business just making profit every which way they can?

From my point of view, it's Epic pretending this was about anything other than money. I think the part that is seemingly hypocritical to some is pretending that Epic's stance was about competitiveness, choice and/or "freedom" for the consumer. It's about Epic gaining every dollar they can get either through savings or charging their own fee on their own store.

It wasn't about Apple's degree of fairness or unfairness. I understand people want to make it a good vs evil, fair vs unfair... and I think Epic couldn't give less of a **** about any of that. Epic wants a cut of the pie and wants to give less of their pie to someone else. If that is Epic's position, that's okay. That's not a bad thing but (speaking generally) let's not pretend it was about anything else.

 

[coolfactor]

Only an apologist would defend Apple with that argument.

I mean you do realize Epic is asking way lower than Apple…..
Proving their point, Apple is asking way too much!

Another word for business is "trade". Trade = You give something to get something.

What has Apple been giving for their commission?

• A super-popular range of hardware products that are effortless and pain-free for consumers to use.
• A trusted distribution, installation and updating process.
• Annual software updates and new features.
• Advertising of apps through a trusted marketplaced.
• Free customer support on behalf of the developer.

What does Epic give for their commission?

• A trusted distribution, installation and updating process — ?
• Advertising of apps — ?
• Customer support — ?

I'm genuinely curious what Epic is giving that benefits developers and consumers? I don't know because I've never used their storefront.

 

[pacalis]

So what does Epic charge if I want to sell my own player skins inside Fortnite?

Hell, you should set up your own Fortnite skin store and charge 12% to other skin developers.

I'd totally support you if you use my new fake currency for kids and regulators. I call them "EU-bucks."

 

[aidler]

With more App Stores and more competition, prices will inevitably go down

 

[sunny5]

This is what happen when Apple lose the lawsuit on USA.

 

[kiv.atso]

Apples €100 annual fee for a dev account should be enough for API maintenance;

You joking, right?

How is that going to be enough to pay Apple developers salaries and invest in new research?

They should also give away devices for free because of €100 dev fee too

I get what you prefere, but other people prefere other things.

You have the right not to download such app if you are not sure about how it works, what you chose should not limit my choice.

I prefere iOS instead of Android, that should not limit the way I get my SW.

I don’t get limited that way on a Mac, and I don’t want to be limited on iOS.

Now thankfully it doesn’t need to be that way, I am free to get the sw somewhere else if available and if I want and you are free not to download “potentially insets (for you)” if you don’t want to, just like you can on a Mac.

Do you feel undefeated downloading Affinity on a Mac outside of the Mas? I do t, and got a better deal.

Getting stuff outside the store is not unsafer than getting it from the developer, you just need to know who you are getting your app from.

Respected developers will be the same on either store.

Most people complaining are not even in EU so it won’t change a thing for them anyway

Why use own website and not App Store? To sidestep reviews and use private frameworks that Apple would reject. I don’t trust such developers.

 

[Ctrlos]

You joking, right?

How is that going to be enough to pay Apple developers salaries and invest in new research?

They should also give away devices for free because of €100 dev fee too.

Perhaps seeing Apple go down makes you happy, but for me it means loosing my job.

I honestly wish they’d start charging for iOS updates and slow down the hardware cycle!

The €100 annual fee is to grant the user access to developer tools. Their 15% cut is there to fund the App Store and make a profit from running it. Nothing wrong with this but if a developer isn’t using Apple’s distribution channels then they shouldn’t be charged any money.

You know, just like on the Mac.

 

[Ctrlos]

Hell, you should set up your own Fortnite skin store and charge 12% to other skin developers.

I'd totally support you if you use my new fake currency for kids and regulators. I call them "EU-bucks."

€?

 

[kiv.atso]

With more App Stores and more competition, prices will inevitably go down

Most apps are free anyway, and majority of developers aren’t making much money anyway. I doubt it can go below zero.

For subscriptions, I doubt it will ever go down. Music streaming services already pay very little to musicians, and keep the rest for themselves. Movie streaming services are going to charge more and also introduce adverts on top charging subscription fee.

Nothing is getting any cheaper. But others want a piece of the pie for free. That’s for sure

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Another word for business is "trade". Trade = You give something to get something.

What has Apple been giving for their commission?

• A super-popular range of hardware products that are effortless and pain-free for consumers to use.
• A trusted distribution, installation and updating process.
• Annual software updates and new features.
• Advertising of apps through a trusted marketplaced.
• Free customer support on behalf of the developer.

What does Epic give for their commission?

• A trusted distribution, installation and updating process — ?
• Advertising of apps — ?
• Customer support — ?

I'm genuinely curious what Epic is giving that benefits developers and consumers? I don't know because I've never used their storefront.

That’s super easy, barely an inconvenience to list.

• A super-popular range of hardware products that are effortless and pain-free for consumers to use.
  • Cross platform devices and the ability to sell their apps on over 4 different platforms.
• A trusted distribution, installation and updating process.
  • Check
• Annual software updates and new features.
  • Check
• Advertising of apps through a trusted marketplaced.
  • Check
• Free customer support on behalf of the developer.
  • Check
• Cross platform Developer tool to create games across any platform: macOS,windows, iOS, android, steamOS etc with free access to the Unreal engine 5.
  • Xcode is limited to iOS and macOS only
• Allow a wide variety of games
  • iOS AppStore is very strict in how games can be designed or what themes they can cover.
• Flexible use of epics payment system or their own payment system allowing developers to keep 100%.

 

[AppliedMicro]

A super-popular range of hardware products that are effortless and pain-free for consumers to use.
Annual software updates and new features.

Hardware purchases and annual software updates don't require an app purchase.
They're "given" for (or come with) the purchase of a hardware product.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Before Apple fans get confused again and start calling Epic hypocritical: the key difference is that Epic is not a gatekeeper and does not have complete control over game distribution. If developers don't like these terms they're free to use web distribution or alternative stores. That's how competition in a free and open market works.

But a million "app stores" is the worst possible solution and nobody wants this except the big companies that started these suits. It's all about money. What users want is actual software freedom. But nobody wants that for the users.

 

[Jensend]

So you're saying if you don't like the Terms and Conditions you should move on to a different platform? Oh how the turn tables.

Switching to an alternate app store has zero cost, except the cost of convenience. Moving to an alternate phone costs hundred of dollars.

It's also interesting that Tim Sweeney wants to sue Valve for also charging 30% for their steam App Store

Source?

Apple doesn’t have complete control over game distribution. It has complete control over game distribution *in iOS*. Epic has complete control over game distribution *in the Epic Store*. Sorry, but this is the problem, people set the arbitrary line where they want.

The Epic Store isn't tied to a $1000 device. And Epic actually allows app stores to be distributed through their app store.

Anyone with a brain knew all along that it was never about how much of a commission Apple was charging developers.

Epic just wanted their own App Store with their own commission fees. Epic is a company run by fraudulent scumbags.

All these accusations of hypocrisy only work on a straw-man version of Epic's arguments.

I'm genuinely curious what Epic is giving that benefits developers and consumers? I don't know because I've never used their storefront.

The Unreal Engine, arguably the most advanced publicly available game engine.
And they also offer most of the services that the iOS App Store offers.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Most apps are free anyway, and majority of developers aren’t making much money anyway. I doubt it can go below zero.

For subscriptions, I doubt it will ever go down. Music streaming services already pay very little to musicians, and keep the rest for themselves. Movie streaming services are going to charge more and also introduce adverts on top charging subscription fee.

Nothing is getting any cheaper. But others want a piece of the pie for free. That’s for sure

When Apple removes the CTF we can finally get rid of many of the subscription based apps. Now developers can finally provide apps for free without the need to pay a yearly 99$ developer fee.

Apple is forcing free apps to earn money

 

[kiv.atso]

I honestly wish they’d start charging for iOS updates and slow down the hardware cycle!

The €100 annual fee is to grant the user access to developer tools. Their 15% cut is there to fund the App Store and make a profit from running it. Nothing wrong with this but if a developer isn’t using Apple’s distribution channels then they shouldn’t be charged any money.

You know, just like on the Mac.

Mac doesn’t matter much because the majority of developers are on iOS. Most of ‘native’ Mac apps are crappy web apps wrapped with electron native wrapper. A very sad state. Only few Mac apps are truly native (graphics, video, 3d etc), unlike on iOS.

Apple would have done the same with Mac if it was worth it.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Apple is forcing free apps to earn money

...or alternatively steering them towards their old business terms (which would be, on their own, now illegal in the EU)