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Espresso Enthusiasts
- Thread starter eric/
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Thanks. I've gone from it taking a minute to extract, because of that damn filter thingy that I didn't know I didn't need, to actually pulling shots in 30 seconds or less. I'm pretty excited now, because I finally am learning the nuances of the machine and how to operate it to get things right. When I do pull shots, I have the portafilter and filter basket warmed, my cup heated with fresh hot water from the machine, and when I pull a shot, although it's bad right now, it's consistent and it's hot as hell. 160 degrees! 
But I'm already having fun and I've learned a ton.
But I'm already having fun and I've learned a ton.
Thanks. I've gone from it taking a minute to extract, because of that damn filter thingy that I didn't know I didn't need, to actually pulling shots in 30 seconds or less. I'm pretty excited now, because I finally am learning the nuances of the machine and how to operate it to get things right. When I do pull shots, I have the portafilter and filter basket warmed, my cup heated with fresh hot water from the machine, and when I pull a shot, although it's bad right now, it's consistent and it's hot as hell. 160 degrees!
But I'm already having fun and I've learned a ton.
It's a nasty learning curve when you first start, but when it starts working...it's a kick!!
Like everyone on this thread, I never stop learning. Every roast is a new challenge...get the grind right, get the extraction time right.
And it's still fun!!!
I hope to start grinding my own in maybe 1-2 months from now. I think/hope I will have had enough practice in making espresso by then, that I can add a new variable.
Then by next year maybe a new machine! Unless I can get someone to buy me one of these for Christmas!
La Pavoni Professional 16-Cup Espresso Machine
Then by next year maybe a new machine! Unless I can get someone to buy me one of these for Christmas!
La Pavoni Professional 16-Cup Espresso Machine
I hope to start grinding my own in maybe 1-2 months from now. I think/hope I will have had enough practice in making espresso by then, that I can add a new variable.
Then by next year maybe a new machine! Unless I can get someone to buy me one of these for Christmas!
La Pavoni Professional 16-Cup Espresso Machine
Image
It's a beauty!!
I can't tell from the description if it's a lever cocking action machine, or a really pure lever machine. If it's the latter, that's another variable to learn...how fast to pull the lever. (Just read the description again...it's the real deal...another variable to control...but more control over the end product)
In case it's not blatantly obvious...the expression "pulling a shot" came from operating machines like this one.
I just received my Sweet Maria's Newsletter (http://www.sweetmarias.com), and they had this new bean. This is what happens when you start roasting your own...the choices become damn near infinite.
The bean I'm considering is the second description in the linked page.
http://www.sweetmarias.com/coffee.indonesia.sumatra.php?coffee=3848#3848
The bean I'm considering is the second description in the linked page.
http://www.sweetmarias.com/coffee.indonesia.sumatra.php?coffee=3848#3848
I'm working with a good friend who just bought a grinder...going through the process of finding a coffee that pleases him. It's a fun process of buying a bunch of different coffees and seeing what pleases you.
He has tried a number of coffees (he uses a drip machine, not espresso), and it may turn out that the one he likes most is an inexpensive supermarket blend.
It's a little different selecting for espresso...but after knowing a bit about some basic information about different coffees and different roasts...it's a fun trial and error process.
I'm even trying a mix...I had a few of those Italian beans that I found thin on flavour...A few of the Colombian, which is okay, and a handful of the supermarket blends in a nearly finished pack...So I've put them all together, whilst following your instructions on not allowing them to go stale...The next grind should be errr...Interesting....
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I hope to start grinding my own in maybe 1-2 months from now. I think/hope I will have had enough practice in making espresso by then, that I can add a new variable.
Then by next year maybe a new machine! Unless I can get someone to buy me one of these for Christmas!
La Pavoni Professional 16-Cup Espresso Machine
Image
I love that machine, and was thinking about it until I saw the price..
$959? Ouch.
I hope to start grinding my own in maybe 1-2 months from now. I think/hope I will have had enough practice in making espresso by then, that I can add a new variable.
Then by next year maybe a new machine! Unless I can get someone to buy me one of these for Christmas!
La Pavoni Professional 16-Cup Espresso Machine
Image
As unbelievably beautiful as the lever machines are, if anyone is considering buying one (at any time), I strongly suggest that they read as many reviews as possible before buying one.
I'm not suggesting not to buy a lever machine, but it is a very difficult machine to use. Before I bought my current machine, I look for a VERY long time at the lever machines. I really wanted to buy one, but after reading a lot of reviews, the idiosyncrasies of the lever machine moved me to decide on a semi-automatic pump machine.
There are some wonderful elements to the lever machine, not the least of which is the level of control it gives over the production of the espresso. And since I enjoy the control aspect of pulling shots...it was tempting. But the fact, for example, that with most lever machines you have to throw away the first shot pulled every time you pull a shot, and other quirky, time consuming, and fussy properties of the machine I was put off the machine.
For someone who makes a few espressos a week, it may be a viable choice. For someone like me, who drinks 4-5 doubles each DAY, the very fussy and time consuming nature of the machine put me off buying it. It is just too fussy for multiple daily use.
I really wish I could have bought a lever machine, but, IMO, it is not for the person who makes multiple espressos each day. I still find myself looking at them (not that I could afford, or even want to, get rid of my current machine...which is a gem!), but they are so damned beautiful and historically important, I can't help reading, and re-reading about them.
Just some thoughts on the lever machine...I'll be terminally jealous of anyone who decides that their needs are met by such a machine, and are willing to deal with it's idiosyncrasies.
About two years ago I purchased a Gaggia Brera Automatic from wholelattelove.com. I got a refurbished unit (built in burr grinder) for $500. I love the machine and the fact that it's all automatic.
About two years ago I purchased a Gaggia Brera Automatic from wholelattelove.com. I got a refurbished unit (built in burr grinder) for $500. I love the machine and the fact that it's all automatic.
One of the nice things about espresso machines is the variety of production methods available.
The lever...for total control over the shot.
The semi-automatic...for a lot of control, but not quite as much as the lever.
The automatic...still have the control of grinding and tamping, but all the rest is automatic.
The super automatic...grinds, tamps, extracts,and delivers your shots.
And even the one shot machines...not my cup of tea (OMG!!!) but right for some folks, and auto repair shop waiting rooms!!
Great espresso enthusiasm in this thread.
Are you ready to go further into the rabbit hole of espresso making?
Some other random tidbits that might be helpful if you've not already learned these...
The ground beans need to be used within 30 seconds before the grounds start to oxidize and thus change the flavor outcome of the espresso.
The espresso extracted needs to drunk within 10 seconds before the crema and flavor starts to change. This process is slowed by adding some other binding agent added (sugar or milk) to slow down the breaking down of the espresso flavor.
Tamping has been examined some in this thread but some might enjoy further discussion. The discussion around tamping is to create an evenly spread of ground coffee through the portafilter. The goal is prevent channels being created through the grounds which then leads to only those bits of coffee grounds being used to extract espresso. this leads to an overly bitterness of the espresso (also true in drip coffee, buys a whole different topic)
There are a variety of tamping techniques which can be used to create the best extraction if espresso.
I would suggest using that same kitchen scale to also measure the strength of your tamping which is typically suggested to start at 30 lbs of force.
Here is a great place to start reading more on tamping...this is only part one...
http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/coffeeatthemoment/10-07-2006
Cheers,
Mike
Are you ready to go further into the rabbit hole of espresso making?
Some other random tidbits that might be helpful if you've not already learned these...
The ground beans need to be used within 30 seconds before the grounds start to oxidize and thus change the flavor outcome of the espresso.
The espresso extracted needs to drunk within 10 seconds before the crema and flavor starts to change. This process is slowed by adding some other binding agent added (sugar or milk) to slow down the breaking down of the espresso flavor.
Tamping has been examined some in this thread but some might enjoy further discussion. The discussion around tamping is to create an evenly spread of ground coffee through the portafilter. The goal is prevent channels being created through the grounds which then leads to only those bits of coffee grounds being used to extract espresso. this leads to an overly bitterness of the espresso (also true in drip coffee, buys a whole different topic)
There are a variety of tamping techniques which can be used to create the best extraction if espresso.
I would suggest using that same kitchen scale to also measure the strength of your tamping which is typically suggested to start at 30 lbs of force.
Here is a great place to start reading more on tamping...this is only part one...
http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/coffeeatthemoment/10-07-2006
Cheers,
Mike
Great espresso enthusiasm in this thread.
Are you ready to go further into the rabbit hole of espresso making?
Some other random tidbits that might be helpful if you've not already learned these...
The ground beans need to be used within 30 seconds before the grounds start to oxidize and thus change the flavor outcome of the espresso.
The espresso extracted needs to drunk within 10 seconds before the crema and flavor starts to change. This process is slowed by adding some other binding agent added (sugar or milk) to slow down the breaking down of the espresso flavor.
Tamping has been examined some in this thread but some might enjoy further discussion. The discussion around tamping is to create an evenly spread of ground coffee through the portafilter. The goal is prevent channels being created through the grounds which then leads to only those bits of coffee grounds being used to extract espresso. this leads to an overly bitterness of the espresso (also true in drip coffee, buys a whole different topic)
There are a variety of tamping techniques which can be used to create the best extraction if espresso.
I would suggest using that same kitchen scale to also measure the strength of your tamping which is typically suggested to start at 30 lbs of force.
Here is a great place to start reading more on tamping...this is only part one...
http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/coffeeatthemoment/10-07-2006
Cheers,
Mike
Great stuff.
Welcome to the MR espresso looney bin!!
EDIT: Interesting that the article mentions that the "knock" has been eliminated in the writer's technique. I, too, had read the same thing elsewhere. I had never used the "knock" as it seemed to me it had the potential to fracture the puck (somebody else's phrase) creating the deadly channels, and screwing up your extraction. When I read elsewhere, and again in this article, that the knock was frowned upon I felt vindicated.
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I received the new frothing pitcher and tamper today and I made a latté. Using the new tamper on the first pull, the coffee came out of both portafilter holes more evenly than ever before. I was impressed. The frothing pitcher fits under the steamer wand just fine as I had hoped.
Having a tamper that isn't built into the machine where I have control over it and push down on the coffee rather than up is quite nice.
Having a tamper that isn't built into the machine where I have control over it and push down on the coffee rather than up is quite nice.
I don't know how you used the "built in" tamper at all! It's amazing you did as well as you did with that thing...I couldn't use it if my life depended on it.
You will definitely find having a real live actual tamper makes a big difference.
I'm really happy the frothing pitcher fits the steam wand. I was a little concerned, because of the position of the steam wand on your machine, you might have a problem.
Now you can really get an even tamp and a good flow.
Some people suggest that the pitch be chilled before use. Like leave it in the fridge when not in use...or, at least, put it in the fridge during warm up time for youe machine.
I'm sure there are other folks, folks who, unlike me, actually use the frothing pitcher, who can give you better advice about this.
Oh it was pure hell! LOL
So far I've tried it both ways, room temperature and leaving it in the freezer between uses. I haven't noticed a difference yet, but will continue to experiment.
From what I have read, it's not a good idea to leave it in the freezer, but rather in the fridge if you're going to chill it.
I also assume you are using skim milk, or 2%, or whatever that low fat milk is. Supposedly that froths better than full fat milk.
Then again, what the heck to I know...
From what I have read, it's not a good idea to leave it in the freezer, but rather in the fridge if you're going to chill it.
I also assume you are using skim milk, or 2%, or whatever that low fat milk is. Supposedly that froths better than full fat milk.
Then again, what the heck to I know...
I can try the fridge too, it's next to the freezer!
Yes, I'm using 2% as everything I've read and seen also suggests it froths better.
I can try the fridge too, it's next to the freezer!
Lucky thing it's close, or you'd never find it!!
Oh, you guys with your fussy espresso making. I just don't get what's so hard. Just throw some grinds in a machine, spritz a little steam in some milk, and there it is!
Right!?
I ordered the mini vac below for counter clean up. I've been using the brush SandboxGeneral displayed above, but I wanted to see if the vac does a more efficient job. It's very small, gets into small places, and is battery operated. Also might work for superficial grinder cleaning...not that it replaces the necessary burr brushing.
OK, so it's a computer keyboard vac!!!
Gotta think outside the box!!
Will let you know if it works.
OK, so it's a computer keyboard vac!!!
Gotta think outside the box!!
Will let you know if it works.
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Oh, you guys with your fussy espresso making. I just don't get what's so hard. Just throw some grinds in a machine, spritz a little steam in some milk, and there it is!
Right!?
I laughed at this.
Also, actually nailed a shot last night that I could tell was a lot different than the rest. It was still a little over extracted, but it was a lot better than the others.
If it's over extracted (takes more than about 27 seconds to get 2 - 2 1/2 ounces in your cup), try adjusting your grinder a couple of clicks in the "Coarse" direction. This assumes that you are holding your tamp pressure constant...or as much as possible.
Making the grind a little less fine, by small increments, should speed up extraction time a bit. When I need to do it, I make the adjustments a small amount at a time to change extraction time. It might take two or three tries to get the grind where you want it.