Espresso Enthusiasts

[Scepticalscribe]

The other day, Veteran's Day, my buddy convinced me to go with him to Starbucks for one of their free coffee's. I knew it was a bad idea and that I'd regret it.

However, I went with him since he's my friend and the social time was good. But, the small, free, coffee was terrible - as I knew it would be. I took mine black and he put a bunch of stuff in his.

It was overly acidic and burnt tasting. Yuck! I barely consumed much of it and tossed most of it out when we left. That was two days ago and this morning, the awful taste is finally gone from my tongue.

I should have been smarter and put a bunch of stuff in mine, too, to offset the terrible taste of it. But, since I always make my own coffee, at home, and drink it black, that was the mantra I stuck to that evening.

You have my sympathy and I feel your pain.

Well, Our Absent Mentor had strong views on the coffee (he queried that it could eve be described as that) served in Starbucks. And I agree with him.

In general, it tends to be stale, burnt, bitter and incinerated. Horrible stuff.

Now, I like the ambience of - and the idea of - Starbucks; however, their coffee is awful. The tragedy is - and this doubtless accounts for your experience on Veteran's Day, - is that, knowing that you like coffee, non-coffee drinking (or indifferent to coffee) friends will often suggest meeting in Starbucks, thinking that this is something that you might enjoy. And it is a nice though, prompted by consideration for what they know to be your preferences.

But yes; these days, I get far better coffee at home than I do almost everywhere else.

 

[mobilehaathi]

The other day, Veteran's Day, my buddy convinced me to go with him to Starbucks for one of their free coffee's. I knew it was a bad idea and that I'd regret it.

However, I went with him since he's my friend and the social time was good. But, the small, free, coffee was terrible - as I knew it would be. I took mine black and he put a bunch of stuff in his.

It was overly acidic and burnt tasting. Yuck! I barely consumed much of it and tossed most of it out when we left. That was two days ago and this morning, the awful taste is finally gone from my tongue.

I should have been smarter and put a bunch of stuff in mine, too, to offset the terrible taste of it. But, since I always make my own coffee, at home, and drink it black, that was the mantra I stuck to that evening.

Maybe they make it so acidic and burnt to encourage customers to get the more expensive drinks with syrups and milk and chocolate...

 

[S.B.G]

Maybe they make it so acidic and burnt to encourage customers to get the more expensive drinks with syrups and milk and chocolate...

No doubt. It would be a great marketing strategy on their part for those who aren't as discerning as we are.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Maybe they make it so acidic and burnt to encourage customers to get the more expensive drinks with syrups and milk and chocolate...

No, unfortunately, I seriously think that this is how they think coffee should be made.

And, yes, they are probably quite used to people adding stuff to coffee. I will plead guilty to milk (occasionally cream - real cream) and some brown sugar, but, as for even contemplating the other horrors, such as syrups and chocolate as something to be added to coffee……thanks, but ,no, thank you.

No doubt. It would be a great marketing strategy on their part for those who aren't as discerning as we are.

Spoken - or, should I say, written - like a true coffee aficionado.

However, coffee, as with beer and wine, is one of those drinks that is a 'learned taste'; one learns to like it. When one starts out - and many people never progress beyond this stage - our natural preference is for sweet things, sweet tasting beverages.

I shudder at the perfectly dreadful stuff (both beer and wine - I was more discerning about coffee, even then, as a student, probably because I had been exposed to the good stuff as a child) I drank, imbibed, consumed, such as horrible German sickly sweet whites, and ghastly gassy beer.

You have to learn, and/or be taught to develop a palate and appreciation for the better stuff. And, for a great many people, for a variety of reasons, such opportunity (not to mention means, or motive) might never actually arise.

 

[Mike in Kansas]

The tragedy is - and this doubtless accounts for your experience on Veteran's Day, - is that, knowing that you like coffee, non-coffee drinking (or indifferent to coffee) friends will often suggest meeting in Starbucks, thinking that this is something that you might enjoy. And it is a nice though, prompted by consideration for what they know to be your preferences.

My friends who know I am a craft beer enthusiast will usually keep Sam Adams or Shock Top in their fridge, and offer those to me when I am visiting or coming over for dinner. They mean well, and I am too polite to refuse, but I would never drink either of those on my own accord. Lately I have been bringing my own beer to my friends who are not 'craft beer aware'; that keeps them from stocking something that they would never drink anyway, and I don't have to fake enjoying that stuff!

I view Starbucks the same way I view Sam Adams - it's the gateway brew that gets a lot of people interested in the hobby. Many will never go beyond either Sam Adams or Starbucks; but for some, as their tastes change and become more cultured, they begin to explore the true craft, be it coffee, beer, gin, etc. And then they heap much scorn onto the very same drink that got them involved in the first place!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

My friends who know I am a craft beer enthusiast will usually keep Sam Adams or Shock Top in their fridge, and offer those to me when I am visiting or coming over for dinner. They mean well, and I am too polite to refuse, but I would never drink either of those on my own accord. Lately I have been bringing my own beer to my friends who are not 'craft beer aware'; that keeps them from stocking something that they would never drink anyway, and I don't have to fake enjoying that stuff!

I view Starbucks the same way I view Sam Adams - it's the gateway brew that gets a lot of people interested in the hobby. Many will never go beyond either Sam Adams or Starbucks; but for some, as their tastes change and become more cultured, they begin to explore the true craft, be it coffee, beer, gin, etc. And then they heap much scorn onto the very same drink that got them involved in the first place!

How right you are; excellent and thoughtful post @Mike in Kansas - and not just because I happen to agree with you!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

This afternoon, - interspersed with cooking the poached chicken described in another thread - I made contact with the Ethiopian Coffee Company in London, and with another, much smaller, supplier, and placed orders for, yes, Ethiopian coffee, several different varieties.

So, I look forward to continuing my blending experiments with Ethiopian coffees, exploring different varietals, as well as those coffees from different regions.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

So, an all Ethiopian blend this morning, and supremely delicious it was, too.

 

[0388631]

Starbucks wasn't always bad. There was a time they were alright, back back back in the day before they went Genghis Khan and set up a store on every block.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Starbucks wasn't always bad. There was a time they were alright, back back back in the day before they went Genghis Khan and set up a store on every block.

Perhaps.

But, I didn't know them, then. Nevertheless, I ail readily concede that I still like the ambience of their cafés, however much I deplore the dismal stuff that they proffer under the name of coffee.

And, as for their cannibalistic business model……well, let us merely observe that it may be in profound contradiction to the idea of the proviso of a civilised public space in which to drink seriously old coffee, maybe read a paper, check your emails, chat to a friend….

 

[0388631]

Perhaps.

But, I didn't know them, then. Nevertheless, I ail readily concede that I still like the ambience of their cafés, however much I deplore the dismal stuff that they proffer under the name of coffee.

And, as for their cannibalistic business model……well, let us merely observe that it may be in profound contradiction to the idea of the proviso of a civilised public space in which to drink seriously old coffee, maybe read a paper, check your emails, chat to a friend….

I'd argue most independent cafes are much better in terms of ambiance. Anyway, this thread reminded me to order a new pair of Thermos branded travel mugs and a large canister. And thus the holiday shopping season starts.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I'd argue most independent cafes are much better in terms of ambiance. Anyway, this thread reminded me to order a new pair of Thermos branded travel mugs and a large canister. And thus the holiday shopping season starts.

Oh, look, I agree that most independent coffee shops are far better than Starbuck's in terms of ambience. No argument there. Personally, I far prefer them, and these are the places that receive my custom when I go out for coffee if the choice of venue has been left to me.

But - while I deplore and really detest the coffee that Starbucks makes and serves - and am quick to condemn them on a number of grounds - their one redeeming grace is the fact that the ambience in their coffee shops is actually sometimes very pleasant.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

This morning, (well afternoon), I decided to continue with my blending experiments.

Thus, today's coffee - and it struck me that a pot would be a better investment of time and energy than a mug - is a mixture of three different types of Ethiopian beans (Kochere, Yirgacheffe, and a Sidamo Bokasso), all ground by my OE Lido manual grinder.

The coffee is quite excellent and delicious, and it comes with an abundance of those notes which define and distinguish Ethiopian coffee; clear, clean, bright, sweet and smooth tasting.

 

[mobilehaathi]

This morning, (well afternoon), I decided to continue with my blending experiments.

Thus, today's coffee - and it struck me that a pot would be a better investment of time and energy than a mug - is a mixture of three different types of Ethiopian beans (Kochere, Yirgacheffe, and a Sidamo Bokasso), all ground by my OE Lido manual grinder.

The coffee is quite excellent and delicious, and it comes with an abundance of those notes which define and distinguish Ethiopian coffee; clear, clean, bright, sweet and smooth tasting.

Hey, you're blending quite regularly now. You should name it...perhaps The Sceptical Scribe's Ethiopian Delight.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Hey, you're blending quite regularly now. You should name it...perhaps The Sceptical Scribe's Ethiopian Delight.

Well, the previous blend had settled into (roughly) two thirds Ethiopian (two different Ethiopians) and one third Kenyan.

Although a friend suggested that I name it, - and it was really rather nice, I did not plan to return to that precise blend - certainly not with any degree of frequency; however, the blending experimentations shall continue, and, if I come up with something superb, I might make that a mainstay. A named mainstay.

But that will not prevent further experimentation elsewhere, and with other beans. Not all need to come from Ethiopia, either, although most will be. In the past, I have had some lovely coffees from El Salvador.

 

[0388631]

Who makes a decent all stainless steel, preferably 18/10 moka pot?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Who makes a decent all stainless steel, preferably 18/10 moka pot?

The Italian company Bialetti make a lovely stainless steel moka pot; it is the original espresso moka pot, - which you will find in Italian homes and - sometimes - small coffee shops. And it looks absolutely gorgeous on the hob.

I have one. (Yes, I have a gorgeous German ceramic one, too, - by Villeroy & Boch which I have yet to use, but the Bialetti is lovely and is extremely forgiving). Besides, it makes great coffee.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

So, perhaps strange to relate in a coffee thread, especially a thread dedicated to espresso enthusiasts, but for now, I am sipping some Turkish tea, - a natural mixed tea - (made in my cast iron Turkish tea pot), and it is excellent. Tis is just what I felt I needed this afternoon.

Depending on mood, I may make a cup of Ethiopian coffee later this afternoon.

 

[mobilehaathi]

Who makes a decent all stainless steel, preferably 18/10 moka pot?

I've been quite happy with my Bialetti moka pot too.

 

[0388631]

The Bialetti is what I wanted to buy, but I've read it's isn't all stainless steel. Seems there's quite a few models by them (last I checked a year ago) that use SS/aluminum, SS only in 18/8 or 18/10 and of course aluminum. At the time I was looking on Amazon. At the time, SCG and SM had the blends up for sale.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The Bialetti is what I wanted to buy, but I've read it's isn't all stainless steel. Seems there's quite a few models by them (last I checked a year ago) that use SS/aluminum, SS only in 18/8 or 18/10 and of course aluminum. At the time I was looking on Amazon. At the time, SCG and SM had the blends up for sale.

Well, mine came from Italy, carried back by my godmother who had been on holiday there who then gave it to me as a present. It is over 20 years old, and now, much used, a bit battered looking; but it looks great on a stove and makes terrific coffee.

Why not try a proper home store (not Amazon) and ask the staff where you could source the stainless steel ones? Better still, try a bricks-and-mortar store that specialises in Italian cookware, or an Italian deli which specialises in Italina food and would know where to and how to source good Italian cookware.

Besides, these days, there are many imitations on the market. Moreover, in an attempt to expand their attraction, Bialetti have started to make moka pots in variety of metals and materials.

 

[0388631]

Well, mine came from Italy, carried back by my godmother who had been on holiday there who then gave it to me as a present. It is over 20 years old, and now, much used, a bit battered looking; but it looks great on a stove and makes terrific coffee.

Why not try a proper home store (not Amazon) and ask the staff where you could source the stainless steel ones? Better still, try a bricks-and-mortar store that specialises in Italian cookware, or an Italian deli which specialises in Italina food and would know where to and how to source good Italian cookware.

Besides, these days, there are many imitations on the market. Moreover, in an attempt to expand their attraction, Bialetti have started to make moka pots in variety of metals and materials.

In the past in terms of getting my Gaggia or my current Rancilio and other specialty stuff, I've gotten it from SFG, though my first Rancilio was bought from the company direct.

We own only All-Clad and Calphalon cookware. In the long run, it's always cheaper to spent a couple thousand on good pots and pans than replace cheaper stuff for $300 a set every few years.

Despite living in LA County, the choices for upscale cookware stores is limited. The only reputable places near me are a Sur La Table if it's still open and a Williams Sonoma store in Sherman Oaks.

In other words, I don't exactly care about price as long as I get what I want.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

In the past in terms of getting my Gaggia or my current Rancilio and other specialty stuff, I've gotten it from SFG, though my first Rancilio was bought from the company direct.

We own only All-Clad and Calphalon cookware. In the long run, it's always cheaper to spent a couple thousand on good pots and pans than replace cheaper stuff for $300 a set every few years.

Despite living in LA County, the choices for upscale cookware stores is limited. The only reputable places near me are a Sur La Table if it's still open and a Williams Sonoma store in Sherman Oaks.

In other words, I don't exactly care about price as long as I get what I want.

Fair enough. I'd class myself as having similar preferences.

Well, I am not from the US, and thus, unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with the stores you have mentioned and cannot offer any opinions on them.

Why not try contacting Bialetti directly? Their website seems quite attractive, and I am sure that they would respond to an email or phone call.

 

[0388631]

Fair enough. I'd class myself as having similar preferences.

Well, I am not from the US, and thus, unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with the stores you have mentioned and cannot offer any opinions on them.

Why not try contacting Bialetti directly? Their website seems quite attractive, and I am sure that they would respond to an email or phone call.

I'll give them a call in the morning. Hopefully they can ship something out before next week. Those stores are higher end cookware and general household items stores. Sadly their individual stores aren't as vast as their online stores.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I'll give them a call in the morning. Hopefully they can ship something out before next week. Those stores are higher end cookware and general household items stores. Sadly their individual stores aren't as vast as their online stores.

The other Italian company that comes to mind, a bit higher end than Bialetti (and also a bit more expensive, with - some might say more elegant, others would argue more precious, pretentious even and self-indulgent designs) is Alessi.

Some of their coffee stuff is gorgeous, and they certainly make espresso pots moka pots in stainless steel, or rather, they used to.